MT Only: Why gun combat 0?

[Dagrill]

Hi,

I was looking at the Mega Traveller basic character generation and under default skills it has All But Barbarians: Gun Combat-0.

Why?

It's designed by Marc so presumably he knows on most planets in his universe
have such a high law level that most citizens of the galaxy will not have even seen a gun, let alone worked out how to fire one.

Regards

David

 

[mike wightman]

TV shows and cinema, computer games, even role playing games in the far future.

Here in the UK most people who use guns at street level have no training - they manage to kill each other just the same.

The guns themselves may well help with the aiming by TL9+

 

[rancke]

I was looking at the Mega Traveller basic character generation and under default skills it has All But Barbarians: Gun Combat-0.

I thought doctors

Why?

It's designed by Marc so presumably he knows on most planets in his universe have such a high law level that most citizens of the galaxy will not have even seen a gun, let alone worked out how to fire one.[/QUOTE]
My guess is that it's a "PCs are special" rule that got overlooked by the "character generation is for NPCs too" notion.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Here in the UK most people who use guns at street level have no training - they manage to kill each other just the same.

You can manage to kill with a gun without Gun Combat skill under the MT rules too. You just don't kill as often as someone with Gun Combat skill does.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

most planets in his universe
have such a high law level that most citizens of the galaxy will not have even seen a gun, let alone worked out how to fire one.

Oh, its worse than that. Planet count with LL of 6+ is nothing compared to the percentage of people living under LL6+. The High Population worlds comprise more than 90% of the overall population, and they average a LL of 10+.

However, of the 18 careers in CT and MT 7 are military/para-military and 2 are criminal. Two more (Noble and Hunter) are institutional rules breakers, and Belters are likely familiar with those guns that double as survival tools (Accelerator Rifle).

That leaves the Barbarian, Bureaucrat, Diplomat, Doctor, Merchant, and Scientist. Merchants explicitly include starfarers in their numbers, so single world Law Level is irrelevant. Merchants are also the career with the largest membership in that group, possibly excepting Bureaucrats.

Of the Careers provided, most can justify professional exposure to firearms, and quite a few can do so with no regard to Law Level.

 

[Timerover51]

I go with Gun Combat "0" meaning that the individual can use a slug-throwing weapon without having a chance of shooting him/her/itself. That does not mean that anyone near the individual is safe though.

You should consider that for High Law Level worlds, many people would see via entertainment weapons being used and have some small concept of how weapons are used. Reloading might be a problem though. That is not always depicted.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Here in the UK most people who use guns at street level have no training - they manage to kill each other just the same.

Just point and click.

But shouldn't there also be a default of something like Drive-0, by the same reasoning?

 

[McPerth]

Just point and click.

And if never tried before, you're more likely to be damaged by the recoil than to hit the target (assuming a bullet gun, of course).

But shouldn't there also be a default of something like Drive-0, by the same reasoning?

In MT anyone whose homeworld is industrial to early stellar TL has weeled vehicle-0, and higher TLs grav vehicle-0, so you're right, is on it.

I guess the reason to give players Gun Combat 0 is just to avoid useless players in combat, as it uses to occur quite often and to be the most dangerous situations the player face, so a metagame reason.

 

[aramis]

Given that...

• All PC's from the CT Core are ex-military†
• the basics of Pistol are the same for all pistols
• the basics of rifles are the same for almost all rifles
• the basics of melee weapons are highly transferable between weapons
• the low granularity of CT combat tasks

† The US Merchant Marine was, during wartime, routinely trained by the navy in small arms. The Merchant career in CT looks to be modeled highly after WW I and WW II USMM, not actual civil merchants.

 

[Dagrill]

TV shows and cinema, computer games, even role playing games in the far future. Here in the UK most people who use guns at street level have no training - they manage to kill each other just the same.
The guns themselves may well help with the aiming by TL9+

OK I've seen the odd gun in someone's personal collection from the war) but never handled one) and had a couple stuck in my face at the Swedish border and Egypt.

From my reading I understand guns have a safety catch, which I wouldn't know where to look for and from TV I wouldn't even think about how to reload.

There are probably other issues I don't know about...

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

Oh, its worse than that. Planet count with LL of 6+ is nothing compared to the percentage of people living under LL6+. The High Population worlds comprise more than 90% of the overall population, and they average a LL of 10+.

However, of the 18 careers in CT and MT 7 are military/para-military and 2 are criminal. Two more (Noble and Hunter) are institutional rules breakers, and Belters are likely familiar with those guns that double as survival tools (Accelerator Rifle).

Of the Careers provided, most can justify professional exposure to firearms, and quite a few can do so with no regard to Law Level.

I can cope with it by career, a rogue is likely to have had some contact with guns in most cultures for example. I also thought that barbarians (as coming from more lawless worlds) would be more likely to have gun combat at TL 2 to 5.

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

I thought doctors Why?

It's designed by Marc so presumably he knows on most planets in his universe have such a high law level that most citizens of the galaxy will not have even seen a gun, let alone worked out how to fire one.

My guess is that it's a "PCs are special" rule that got overlooked by the "character generation is for NPCs too" notion.

Hans[/QUOTE]

Thanks Hans, I had the same thought about Doctor and Guns, although I guess a surgeon could be potentially deadly with a knife.

I think it's probably the best way to go, but as I was going to roll up a few npc's, doesn't help me.

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

And if never tried before, you're more likely to be damaged by the recoil than to hit the target (assuming a bullet gun, of course).

I guess the reason to give players Gun Combat 0 is just to avoid useless players in combat, as it uses to occur quite often and to be the most dangerous situations the player face, so a metagame reason.

Thanks, recoil is something I hadn't thought about.

That makes total sense, thank you

Kind Regards

David

 

[SpaceBadger]

OK I've seen the odd gun in someone's personal collection from the war) but never handled one) and had a couple stuck in my face at the Swedish border and Egypt.

From my reading I understand guns have a safety catch, which I wouldn't know where to look for and from TV I wouldn't even think about how to reload.

There are probably other issues I don't know about...

Regards

David

Maybe yet another reason for referring to Traveller as "Yanks in Space"? I can barely remember being so young I didn't know weapon safety and how to shoot (toy guns as a toddler started on learning to point and aim, first BB gun and range safety about age 8, first .22 rifle age 10, I think).

 

[SpaceBadger]

Heh. That last post just had me thinking how being country-raised may have something to do with it, too. You know how young teens who can't drive tend to just wander around talking to friends and stuff? (OK, kids, this was before cell phones; I mean actually walking around aimlessly together.) With me and my two friends who lived within walking distance, I'd guess 75-80% of the time we were just walking around various woods and pastures we had either BB or .22 rifles in hand. May not even shoot them, but had them in hand just in case we felt like it (not shotguns unless we were actually hunting wabbits or something).

Then it occurred to me (thinking of kids now and their videogames) that maybe in the 3I and such, they have really immersive videogames (even without the cyberpunk brain plugs, could still do a lot of VR with gloves and goggles, or some holographic thing, or whatnot). If said videogames accurately depict firearm use to include safeties and reloading and such (covert training tool for the military?) then someone who has never touched a real gun of any kind may have skill-0 just from games.

 

[JimMarn]

I thought it had to do with making sure the PCs didn't shoot themselves in the foot or try to put the wrong, but close in size, ammo into the wrong weapon.

I didn't fire a .22 until Boy Scout camp when I was 13. But I knew gun safety at age 5 because my parents and grandparents insisted on it. Grandpa had guns, but I never knew where the ammo was stored.

I also got a big safety lecture when I bought my first rubber band/elastic gun, it could fire up to 20 of them.

Yeah, my friends and I talked, walked/bicycled down to the local park, bought candy and a soda. Didn't talk about school though. We discussed galaxies and the space program. Really.

 

[Dagrill]

Then it occurred to me (thinking of kids now and their videogames) that maybe in the 3I and such, they have really immersive videogames (even without the cyberpunk brain plugs, could still do a lot of VR with gloves and goggles, or some holographic thing, or whatnot). If said videogames accurately depict firearm use to include safeties and reloading and such (covert training tool for the military?) then someone who has never touched a real gun of any kind may have skill-0 just from games.

Thank you that's a good suggestion for more High Tech societies.

Kind Regards

David

 

[McPerth]

Then it occurred to me (thinking of kids now and their videogames) that maybe in the 3I and such, they have really immersive videogames (even without the cyberpunk brain plugs, could still do a lot of VR with gloves and goggles, or some holographic thing, or whatnot). If said videogames accurately depict firearm use to include safeties and reloading and such (covert training tool for the military?) then someone who has never touched a real gun of any kind may have skill-0 just from games.

I have my doubts about the represive societies (hight to extreme Law Level) most Imperial citizens live under will allow any training tool that gives population some usable familiarity with weapons, even if those tools are virtual...

 

[mike wightman]

We have a pretty repressive law level here in the UK.

There is nothing to stop me watching firearms training videos on u-tube, nothing to stop me playing first person shooter video games, nothing to stop me watching cowboy films...

I first learned to strip an M1911A! from a model kit I bought - still have it somewhere.
No use as a firearm since it is a plastic replica, but very useful for learning the ergonomics, safety location, reloading and stripping/re-assembly.

 

[rancke]

We have a pretty repressive law level here in the UK.

There is nothing to stop me watching firearms training videos on u-tube, nothing to stop me playing first person shooter video games, nothing to stop me watching cowboy films...

I first learned to strip an M1911A! from a model kit I bought - still have it somewhere.
No use as a firearm since it is a plastic replica, but very useful for learning the ergonomics, safety location, reloading and stripping/re-assembly.

And that's a good explanation why someone from a high law level world might have learned Gun Combat-0. It's not a good explanation why everyone on such a world would have Gun Combat-0.


Hans