RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Let's not forget that in BESM d20, one of the classes is Gun Bunny. Since T20 and d20 are supposed to be compatible, it's entirely logical that Gun Bunnies could work their way into the OTU . . .
lightsenshi
SOC-12
I'd think that it's an expose thing. It's quite obvious as to why Star Wars, D&D, and Star Trek games sell. People have something to relate to other than the gaming books.
Maybe one of these smart (motivated) programers could whip up a program like the old D&D computer games or the star wars games that are out currently.
Maybe one of these smart (motivated) programers could whip up a program like the old D&D computer games or the star wars games that are out currently.
Michael Taylor
SOC-13
Quote: "The Fourth Imperium in 1248 in no way precludes "old" TNE style adventures. There are still vast swaths of unexplored, dangerous worlds. Even in 1248 after the "return of the Imperium"."
And the 4th Imperium is only 1 sector in size. Perfect!
And the 4th Imperium is only 1 sector in size. Perfect!
Michael Taylor
SOC-13
Quote: "The Fourth Imperium in 1248 in no way precludes "old" TNE style adventures. There are still vast swaths of unexplored, dangerous worlds. Even in 1248 after the "return of the Imperium"."
And the 4th Imperium is only 1 sector in size. Perfect!
And the 4th Imperium is only 1 sector in size. Perfect!
M
Malenfant
Guest
Well, there were some PC games for Megatraveller (um. Something about Zhodani and Ancients?). I tried one of them and I didn't think it was very good though.
Then of course before that there was Elite, which basically IS Traveller with the serial numbers filed off. Plus I wanna know why nobody has designed the Cobra Mk III for Traveller yet
. I think the closest modern PC game to Traveller is the MMORPG EVE Online. You do trading, kill pirates (or be a pirate), do agent missions, research technologies... plus it's gorgeous to look at. Plus I think the background's more interesting too
lightsenshi
SOC-12
Yes but that's a MMORPG. For those of us cheapskates who either don't like multiplayer games or don't have high speed....
M
Malenfant
Guest
Actually, you can easily avoid the multiplayer side of it (certainly the player vs player killing anyway). I was on my own for the first month of playing it, I just stayed out of the low security areas (what would be Red Zones in Traveller). Then I joined a friend's corporation and have been working for them ever since.
If you don't have high speed internet then you may be stuck though
. But you can buy the game in the shops, I don't know how much it relies on internet connection though. While you're in a system I think it's all done on the PC though and doesn't need a fast connection, but I'm not sure.But we're getting a bit off topic now
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
We, among us here, are the active online membership who choses to both read and post here. We are the ones who weren't scared or annoyed at all these discussions.
Hunter has taken a stand and said, "a change/reboot/revision" of the OTU isn't going to happen, despite a large number of us seeming to be in favor of it. Of course, we are only a minority of all Traveller players, and it's difficult to judge just from our conversation what the reactions of the fanbase at large would be.
In the core-Worldbook of the OTU which I have been advocating so strongly (this is the third or forth post I've made in favor of it, at least), on the back page (of the printed version), we could include a questionaire/survey (yes, which are themselves biases, I know) giving online and mail-in response possibilities. This survey would question the Traveller player populace at large what they thought about a milieu-reboot (with appropriate science revisions, etc.).
I think that this would be the only way to get a more wide-ranging reaction that has been seen here. The only way we could see a reaction large enough that would move the opinions of the Great Old Ones.
If not, well, at least Traveller OTU products could more aggressively market themselves as "60s/70s SF" games. And, I tell you, from reading some SF in this era myself, that the "tech" seen in these books could vary tremendously. The techy-equipment lists need to be expanded to include lots more of this "tech" (and we're seeing a couple of extra threads abou this right now). Hard-SF of this era was not lacking in some truly amazing ideas. We don't need to go with the least common denominator among them as far as weapons and gear go. So, this would also be a request for an OTU Weapons & Equipment Guide (we've already got a weapons books, but it never hurts to add more). Like a lot of the better equipment guides coming out, could we please include artistic renderings of the equipment?
Equipment Threads:
Topic: New Alternative TNE Weapons
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000183;p=1#000000
Topic: Item Oddities
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001188;p=1#000000
Topic: Covert Operations Equipment
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001187;p=1#000000
Hunter has taken a stand and said, "a change/reboot/revision" of the OTU isn't going to happen, despite a large number of us seeming to be in favor of it. Of course, we are only a minority of all Traveller players, and it's difficult to judge just from our conversation what the reactions of the fanbase at large would be.
In the core-Worldbook of the OTU which I have been advocating so strongly (this is the third or forth post I've made in favor of it, at least), on the back page (of the printed version), we could include a questionaire/survey (yes, which are themselves biases, I know) giving online and mail-in response possibilities. This survey would question the Traveller player populace at large what they thought about a milieu-reboot (with appropriate science revisions, etc.).
I think that this would be the only way to get a more wide-ranging reaction that has been seen here. The only way we could see a reaction large enough that would move the opinions of the Great Old Ones.
If not, well, at least Traveller OTU products could more aggressively market themselves as "60s/70s SF" games. And, I tell you, from reading some SF in this era myself, that the "tech" seen in these books could vary tremendously. The techy-equipment lists need to be expanded to include lots more of this "tech" (and we're seeing a couple of extra threads abou this right now). Hard-SF of this era was not lacking in some truly amazing ideas. We don't need to go with the least common denominator among them as far as weapons and gear go. So, this would also be a request for an OTU Weapons & Equipment Guide (we've already got a weapons books, but it never hurts to add more). Like a lot of the better equipment guides coming out, could we please include artistic renderings of the equipment?
Equipment Threads:
Topic: New Alternative TNE Weapons
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000183;p=1#000000
Topic: Item Oddities
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001188;p=1#000000
Topic: Covert Operations Equipment
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001187;p=1#000000
It may not be a direct decendant of the 3rd Imperium but it smack's heavily of an attemp at apeasment by returning to what was.
It has been said of the setting:
In 1248, as the New Era dawns, the Star Vikings are gone. Their legacy remains, and their story is not ended. But in the New Era, the Reformation Coalition has become something else and the Star Vikings are gone from what used to be "Imperial Space"
The focus of the campaign is shifted from the RC to the New Imperium, the Regency has had it's teeth pulled, the Star Vikings are AWOL, most of waht the campaign focus on has just been swept under the rug. I never like the regency, never played there much, but I still hate to see it marginalized. It just seems like the whole setting is being bulldozed
daryen
SOC-14 1K
At the risk of beating one particular drum too much, I do want to point out that there actually is an OTU reboot going on. Well, sort of anyway. It is 1248.
Its entire pre-history will be laid out as completely as possible, tying up the many loose ends and giving the whole story in a single space. It gives a large Imperium in which to work old CT-style adventures, but also has tremendous open areas just waiting to be explored and exploited. It truly tries to have it both ways and, quite frankly, it succeeds.
So, please, if you hated TNE, please give it a chance. I'll be honest: I really didn't like TNE (why is irrelevant to this discussion), but 1248 excites me a lot. It picks up on the whole history of the OTU (including Virus, Rebellion, and Golden Age), and ties it together to form the 1248 setting.
And for those who loved TNE and don't like that 1248 is from a different author, please remember that that author is one of you. He cares enough about the setting to do what is required to make this happen.
So, maybe QLI is already trying to address this issue for us.
Its entire pre-history will be laid out as completely as possible, tying up the many loose ends and giving the whole story in a single space. It gives a large Imperium in which to work old CT-style adventures, but also has tremendous open areas just waiting to be explored and exploited. It truly tries to have it both ways and, quite frankly, it succeeds.
So, please, if you hated TNE, please give it a chance. I'll be honest: I really didn't like TNE (why is irrelevant to this discussion), but 1248 excites me a lot. It picks up on the whole history of the OTU (including Virus, Rebellion, and Golden Age), and ties it together to form the 1248 setting.
And for those who loved TNE and don't like that 1248 is from a different author, please remember that that author is one of you. He cares enough about the setting to do what is required to make this happen.
So, maybe QLI is already trying to address this issue for us.
I would have to concur with the earlier statements on this thread calling for a Third Imperium sourcebook. But, I have no problem with the size of the OTU. Simply because it big enough for any type of adventure or small enough to have endless adventures (Faldor, Tarsus, & Beltstrike, anyone). I think it is a fallacy that we think of the Imperium as something readily in the lives of Travellers rather it is like today's UN (the institutions matter and govern over the world order but do not directly interfere unless there is a crisis).
What I think Traveller is lacking these days is a certain sex appeal. D&D can always count on the legions of skin clad amazon warriors or summon upon our deepest nightmares the demons will emerge. Plus, we live in era where fantasy motifs dominate over science fiction images. SF has become a parable for some other genre whether it be Western or Classical Myth.
I think the T20 rulebook goes a long way in terms of artwork to overcome some of the misconceptions of Traveller as does many of the latest offerings from GT. But, it lacks a certain storytelling or narrative aspect. I think that I will find this in Gateway to Destiny (which I have only recently acquired) but Traveller needs more storytelling and those stories in turn will feed into a larger campaign, if Traveller is to get back on its feet. So I know it is a simple formula but good art plus storyline will attract new players, as it does for other games.
What I think Traveller is lacking these days is a certain sex appeal. D&D can always count on the legions of skin clad amazon warriors or summon upon our deepest nightmares the demons will emerge. Plus, we live in era where fantasy motifs dominate over science fiction images. SF has become a parable for some other genre whether it be Western or Classical Myth.
I think the T20 rulebook goes a long way in terms of artwork to overcome some of the misconceptions of Traveller as does many of the latest offerings from GT. But, it lacks a certain storytelling or narrative aspect. I think that I will find this in Gateway to Destiny (which I have only recently acquired) but Traveller needs more storytelling and those stories in turn will feed into a larger campaign, if Traveller is to get back on its feet. So I know it is a simple formula but good art plus storyline will attract new players, as it does for other games.
etherflyer
SOC-12
The Imperium started out as a remote government, but it gradually became interventionist as more was written. Personally, I blame both the tendency of authors to want to add something (which led to a proliferation of Imperial agencies, laws, and precedents), and also a tendency of many authors to portray the Imperium as America in Space (such as one article in the old paper JTAS which enumerated, as Imperial crimes, what looks suspiciously like a list of US criminal offences).
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Of course you can place a huge portion of the blame for this at the feet of the vaunted DGP. They were the primary movers and shakers who took it as their mission to make sure there was no corner of the OTU that was not mapped, charted, and described. As for the "Yanks in Space" syndrome, they flat out admitted they intentionally did this in WBH.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Have you actually read the new TNE material? Because actually the New Imperium is pretty damn small, and there's a hell of a lot of threats and unknown still lurking in the wilds. The Star Viking are not "AWOL", they're actually on a pretty bloody important mission. And the Regency has actually got a heck of a lot more interesting lately.
The point with TNE is that is IS a transitional setting. Heck, IIRC there are quotes in the TNE books pulled from history books written in the 1250s-1300s aren't there, looking back on it all as "what the heck were we doing back then, were we right?".
It's fifty years down the line, a heck of a lot has happened since 1200, and you expect it to be exactly the same?! This is what was so great about the TNE, I think - it was dynamic. It's not the static, boring 3I where nothing ever changes apart from a few border wars. You'd be lucky if things were the same on a week by week basic in The New Era.
And with this statement, you lose all credibility and sound like a frothy pro-CT nutbag fundamentalist. Your setting? What sense of ownership do you think you have here? Are you one of the TNE authors? Did you actually write some of the books? How the heck can you be justified in calling it your setting??
And besides, the same arguments applied to the CT fans can apply to you (though honestly, I never dreamed I'd ever see a TNE fan acting like a stroppy CT fan going on about the destruction of "their" universe). Have a look at the game when it come out rather than judging it before you've even seen it based on the cover blurb - and if you don't like it then by all means carry on playing TNE. It's not like you had any officially published help in running or playing it for the past 10 years anyway.
I guess it goes to show that you can't please everyone
M
Malenfant
Guest
Eh? What books did they release that did that?! There was the two Aliens books, WBH, and the Starship Operators Manual... which of the stuff listed here do you think "mapped , charted, and described" everything?!
You wot? I don't recall seeing anything remotely to do with "yanks in space" in WBH. Heck, most of it was basically the same idea as GT:First In wasn't it - scouts + worldbuilding.
M
Malenfant
Guest
So bloody what?
Listen mate, all of us who liked TNE had to put up with watching it die when GDW went under. I've got most of the TNE books with my hard-earned cash too - but I don't go round thinking I own the whole damn setting.
QLI came along and out of the blue says "hey, we're going to be pushing TNE forward again". Most of us, imagine, were overjoyed to see our favourite setting coming back and finding out what happened.
But not you. Instead you come along and say it's YOUR setting? And you don't approve of it (based on hearsay and cover blurb, from the looks of it)? Well you know what? It's not YOUR setting (frankly, that's an insult to everyone else who likes TNE, let alone to GDW, QLI, and everyone who's ever worked on it). And QLI or anyone else is under no obligation to listen to you.
Let's get one thing clear here - you don't "own" anything about Traveller except the books you bought - nothing beyond that. And none of the rest of us can claim anything more than that either. It's one thing to complain about what people did to your favourite setting, but claiming that it's just "your setting" is patently bonkers.
It's this ridiculous sense of entitlement that's part of what's given the Traveller fanbase such a bad reputation. People think they can dictate to publishers what they can do and expect them to jump to it? Hell, no. They can listen to their customers sure, but ultimately the publishers are the ones that decide what they're going to do and they'll stick with it.
If you don't like what they're doing, then carry on doing what you like and ignore the new stuff. Nobody's forcing you to buy it or to like it. But don't dare think that you "own" the setting, because unless you're MWM or Dave Nilsen or Hunter Gordon or MJD then you don't. Honestly, that's got to be one of the most unbelievably arrogant, ignorant things I've ever heard on these boards, and frankly it's embarrassing to hear it.
Moot Jester-in-training passes around abestos suits and popcorn <Sorry folk was busy cleaning up after the latest miniphant outbreak!>
LKW mentioned in a recent JTAS editorial how GDW had planned for TNE/FF&S/the GDW housesystem to cover 2300AD, TW2K, Space 1889 etc. as well as the OTU. I wasn’t into GDW or their House System much at the time but I like the idea now. T20 may eventually approach something like that though I’m not 100% certain how an expanded FF&S could be shoehorned into it at this stage. One thing I liked about T4 in theory was that it had simple and complex design systems for such things as weapons/armor, vehicles, spaceships, etc. that all worked together and derived from the same design foundation. Same for world-building and combat (at least space combat scales).
I recently came across my 2nd edition Heavy Gear books. I’m really glad I kept them. The core rules are a nice hardcover book that has everything needed to play a game with. The technical manual for how the tech works and an elegant design system. A nice detailed worldbook (“Life on Terra Nova”) filling in any gaps from the core book for campaigns. Throughout consistent artwork that sets the tone of the game and is inspiring meshed with a simple but effective rules system that works both for roleplaying and wargaming. The metaplot books are there if you want them but they’re hardly constraining and can be ignored. Jovian Chronicles was also good though I sold my JC years ago which I now regret. ;_;
So putting out world/campaign books for Traveller that break down the OTU and other settings/technological bases into digestible and tweakable bits definitely gets a nod from me. It may be a little late for Traveller brand X to become a generic Sci-Fi rpg but it would at least provide more pre-finished options for GMs. I'm far from wedded to canon and like using the "variable pov history model" anyway. The OTU is just what the Imperium says happened.
I handed a printout of T20 lite, some of the QLI adventures, and my THB to a friend who used to play some CT back in the day but is married now with kids. He handed them back to me a couple of weeks later and said they looked difficult, that there was a lot to digest before even starting to play*. There is a lot to wade through especially for a GM busy in real life but when he gets a break from work and family I mean to go over it again with him. I do like the idea of the cluster books especially for this. Like I’ve stated before it was the combination of T20 Lite and the at that point free Linkworlds Cluster that persuaded me to get back into Traveller after my dabbling in T4 had put me off Traveller. Another free Cluster pdf would be A Good Thing (tm) IMNSHO.
As for me personally, I’m a little Travelled out at the moment. So I’m in a fantasy game and am tinkering with a steampunk game using BESM. Main thing? That I’m having fun regardless of the game I’m playing.
As always, YMMV.
Casey (sorry the acrobatic pandas are on vacation)
* personally I don’t think that it was T20 was the reason, my friend has no problems with running an excellent d20 game in general and several wargames
LKW mentioned in a recent JTAS editorial how GDW had planned for TNE/FF&S/the GDW housesystem to cover 2300AD, TW2K, Space 1889 etc. as well as the OTU. I wasn’t into GDW or their House System much at the time but I like the idea now. T20 may eventually approach something like that though I’m not 100% certain how an expanded FF&S could be shoehorned into it at this stage. One thing I liked about T4 in theory was that it had simple and complex design systems for such things as weapons/armor, vehicles, spaceships, etc. that all worked together and derived from the same design foundation. Same for world-building and combat (at least space combat scales).
I recently came across my 2nd edition Heavy Gear books. I’m really glad I kept them. The core rules are a nice hardcover book that has everything needed to play a game with. The technical manual for how the tech works and an elegant design system. A nice detailed worldbook (“Life on Terra Nova”) filling in any gaps from the core book for campaigns. Throughout consistent artwork that sets the tone of the game and is inspiring meshed with a simple but effective rules system that works both for roleplaying and wargaming. The metaplot books are there if you want them but they’re hardly constraining and can be ignored. Jovian Chronicles was also good though I sold my JC years ago which I now regret.
;_;So putting out world/campaign books for Traveller that break down the OTU and other settings/technological bases into digestible and tweakable bits definitely gets a nod from me. It may be a little late for Traveller brand X to become a generic Sci-Fi rpg but it would at least provide more pre-finished options for GMs. I'm far from wedded to canon and like using the "variable pov history model" anyway. The OTU is just what the Imperium says happened.
I handed a printout of T20 lite, some of the QLI adventures, and my THB to a friend who used to play some CT back in the day but is married now with kids. He handed them back to me a couple of weeks later and said they looked difficult, that there was a lot to digest before even starting to play*. There is a lot to wade through especially for a GM busy in real life but when he gets a break from work and family I mean to go over it again with him. I do like the idea of the cluster books especially for this. Like I’ve stated before it was the combination of T20 Lite and the at that point free Linkworlds Cluster that persuaded me to get back into Traveller after my dabbling in T4 had put me off Traveller. Another free Cluster pdf would be A Good Thing (tm) IMNSHO.
As for me personally, I’m a little Travelled out at the moment. So I’m in a fantasy game and am tinkering with a steampunk game using BESM. Main thing? That I’m having fun regardless of the game I’m playing.
As always, YMMV.
Casey (sorry the acrobatic pandas are on vacation)
* personally I don’t think that it was T20 was the reason, my friend has no problems with running an excellent d20 game in general and several wargames
