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Why are all the ships obselete?

T

TheRaptor

SOC-8
I recently got the supplement reprint. And I have a question regarding the fact that so many obselete ships are mentioned in fighting ships. Why is the imperial fleet still using these outdated ships? Why dont they include the replacements? And finally where can I find information of CT era naval line vessels? Thank you.

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That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheRaptor:
I recently got the supplement reprint. And I have a question regarding the fact that so many obselete ships are mentioned in fighting ships. Why is the imperial fleet still using these outdated ships? Why dont they include the replacements? And finally where can I find information of CT era naval line vessels? Thank you.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. My (cursory) read through of supplement 9 shows 26 designs of which 20 are at TL 15 (the ostensible Imperial maximum in CT.) The only really obsolete ship of the line shown is the Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser and that had to be included for the obvious reason that it has it's own board game. The only other description I can find (again this is a cursory scan so I may have missed a few references) that includes the term obsolescent refers to a ship that isn't so much obsolete as a poor design and hence being phased out.


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I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.

David Shayne

[This message has been edited by DaveShayne (edited 15 October 2001).]
 
In the navy obsolete ships will still be around, just put in storage or transferred to reserve fleets. If it is obsolete storage long enough it will be scrapped, but is kept until then in case of military need such as a war.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheRaptor:
I recently got the supplement reprint. And I have a question regarding the fact that so many obselete ships are mentioned in fighting ships. Why is the imperial fleet still using these outdated ships? Why dont they include the replacements? And finally where can I find information of CT era naval line vessels? Thank you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as CT naval line ships go, the only ones I know of were in Book 2 and Supplement 7 (and even in Supplement 7, they were more High Guard than true CT).

Supplement 9, _Fighting Ships_ was covering ships that characters in the Spinward Marches might see on a regular basis. The Imperial Navy, after experiences in the 3rd Frontier War and the transition to a battlerider-based main battle line from a battleship-based main battle line, decided to hold it's main strength back a ways from the front line, so it wouldn't be overwhelmed in the early stages of any Zhodani attack. Battleriders, ton for ton, are more powerful than battleships, because they have more spinal mounts, BUT they're basically a `win or die' unit, unlike battleships they don't retreat at all well (because they have to rendezvous with their tender, which is both slow and a primary target for any hostiles, to jump out of the system). So the IN stationed the battleriders and their tenders back in Corridor and Deneb sectors, to be brought forward en masse in the event of a war with the Zhodani. The battleships deployed in the Marches, the Kokirraks and the Plankwells and the (few) Tigresses, are there to slow down an assault, get what kills they can, and get out ahead of any overwhelming forces.

StrikerFan
 
Thanks for your help. But I have another question. Where can I find canon designs for battle riders and other battle ships (eg sylea class mentioned in Library data)? Is this material contained in the game reprints?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheRaptor:
Thanks for your help. But I have another question. Where can I find canon designs for battle riders and other battle ships (eg sylea class mentioned in Library data)? Is this material contained in the game reprints?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the information was ever produced for CT it will be in one or more of the reprint volumes. That having been said they aren't in any of the volumes currently available. The information you seek may be in one of the upcoming reprints.

I don't know for sure that it ever was published though.




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I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.

David Shayne
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheRaptor:
Thanks for your help. But I have another question. Where can I find canon designs for battle riders and other battle ships (eg sylea class mentioned in Library data)? Is this material contained in the game reprints?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For CT/HG, Supplement 9 (Fighting Ships) was pretty much IT.

For MT, the vastly broken "Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium" (FSotSI) is the source. Just don't take any of the designs for granted as published.

For TNE, the setting didn't really call for the BIG ships in original condition, so the material on them is primarily for the boardgame BattleRider. A few escorts appeared in various supplements, but nothing truly big...

T4 never got that far. The Naval Campaigns book gets to about the same level of detail as BattleRider for TNE, but that's it...

T20 hasn't gotten that far yet, but the design system for ships is closely related to one of the previous editions (I'll let Hunter say which if he hasn't already), so designs in that edition *might* work in T20 if they were legal designs before...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheRaptor:
Thanks for your help. But I have another question. Where can I find canon designs for battle riders and other battle ships (eg sylea class mentioned in Library data)? Is this material contained in the game reprints?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No canon designs for the Sylea's or the IN battleriders and their tenders were ever published, as I recall. Those ships were left to the GM to design (not hard to do, using High Guard, use the Plankwell design as a base for the Syleas, and going as small as you can and still mount a class-J meson gun for the battleriders).

StrikerFan
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GypsyComet:
For CT/HG, Supplement 9 (Fighting Ships) was pretty much IT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

For MT, the vastly broken "Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium" (FSotSI) is the source. Just don't take any of the designs for granted as published.
[/QUOTE]

Only ship I can remember from that book that was usable was the 20-ton fighter. The rest of them were atrocious: gigantic wallowing pigs that were easy one-shot kills for any sane design. The trick to warship design in MT was using a second power plant to power the weapons and drives for combat: that way the fuel requirements for power plants didn't eat your lunch. The combat power plant didn't need fuel tankage for 30 days, it only needed fuel for 1-2 days. Or even less, if you're designing a merchant ship, my MT merchants had fuel for their booster plants (if they carried lasers) for only about 4 hours. That way they didn't lose valuable cargo space.

StrikerFan
 
Also a good source for MT would Ships of the Black War in Challenge. There are some great designs, although, quite deadly. Plus, Operation Blackheart in Traveller's Digest and the Fury Class.

For GT there is also the free download of 101 Starships on the BITS website.

Hope this helps.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
Also a good source for MT would Ships of the Black War in Challenge. There are some great designs, although, quite deadly. Plus, Operation Blackheart in Traveller's Digest and the Fury Class.

For GT there is also the free download of 101 Starships on the BITS website.

Hope this helps.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which issues were those articles in?

Simon Jester



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-If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
 
The Traveller's Digest, Issue #11 had information on Project Blackheart, written by Chad Russell. Interesting concept to have stand-off raiders equipped with black globes and BIG honkin' CPAW (factor T!) spinal mounts.


The ship stats are:

Nemesis Class Intruder cruiser
High Guard
Nemesis CJ-K6517J3-000010-00T00-0
............................batt 1
............................bear 1
TL15 19900 tons standard
Agility 1
11343 integral fuel, with purification (171 tons) and skimmers.
138 crew, including 19 troops and 5 flight crew
1434 cargo (1434 ton collapsible tank installed as built).
2 shuttles, each w/3 missile, one w/70 cargo, one with 140 passengers. One launch facility.
BCR 10.156217 in quantity (including fee and discount), with tanks and craft.

I'm not writing up the MT stats at the moment; e-mail me if interested.

________
Ships of the Black War in Challenge - I must not have those issue(s). Same with the Fury class; I'd be happy to get that data, though!


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Joe Brown

[This message has been edited by Fulacin Highport (edited 17 October 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
Also a good source for MT would Ships of the Black War in Challenge. There are some great designs, although, quite deadly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those were Rob Dean's work IIRC, so yes, quite deadly. He was responsible for vastly more MT designs than anyone else I'm aware of, and was one of the masters. He still haunts the TML on occasion, but was one of the many Traveller talents who never jumped to TNE.

I do miss those days, when the "design gang" (Rob Dean, Scott Kellogg, Bertil, Ameer, and others) and the PBEMer's combined to fill the TML with worthwhile material on a constant, consistent basis...

<edit>

Ooops. Those weren't Rob's designs after all, but I still recommend looking for the "Dean Files" if MT designs are your interest...

[This message has been edited by GypsyComet (edited 18 October 2001).]
 
Stats for the Nolikian Class Batle Rider and Lurenti Class Battle Tender were in "the Spinward Marches Campaign" Page 35.

Stats For teh Inkaalur Class Dreadnaught Were in Far Traveller 2, Page 18,

Stats For The Uzshu Class Dreadnaught were in High Passage 5, Page 53.

I have a huge collection of starship designs from CT, MT, and TNE. feel free to contact me about any design.

I'll include the published designs here:

Uzshu class Dreadnaught (TL 14 version)
Dreadnaught BB-R445IH3-4056600-900Q9-0 Mcr62386.44 100Ktons.
BattBear Y 1Z
Batt W 1X
Cargo=89. Fuel=54,138. E.P.=7069 Agility=4. Crew=913 TL=14, Y=43. Z=44

Inkaalur Class Dradnaught
Dreadnaught BB-R435AJ4-A09900-999T9-0 MCr77759.538 100ktons.
BattBear W841N TL=15
Batt ZC61Y Crew=1501
Passenger=30. Low=776. Troops=651. Cargo=790. Fuel=40000. EP=10000. Agility=5. 24 Misc small craft. Z=43

Nolikian Class Battlerider
BR-L106QJ3-B39905-299N9-00 MCr9268.25 20000tons
BattBear 8 1 C121C TL=15
Batt 8 1 C121C Crew=690
Pass=0. Low=150. Cargo=0. Fuel=5000. Agility=6. Troops=81. Fule Scoops. Fuel Purification. One Frozen Watch. Ane Auxillary Bridge. 4 Gunboats
(Note the miss print? on laser, must be dual turrets for a factor of 2)

Lurenti Class Batlecarrier
CB-T7425J4-099909-99999-200 MCr23056 300000tons.
BattBear Y 9 KKKKZ TL=15
Batt Y 9 KKKKZ Crew=2086
Pass=0. Low=1100. Cargo=500. Fuel=75000. EP=15000. Agility=1. Troops=100. 200Fighters. 7 Batleriders.
K=20, Y=60, Z=200

No Canon designs for the Sylea were published, however since Library data Gives the Disp as 100,000 tons and The Syleas were used to escort the Imperial Yacht Pax Impercia Jump 4 and 6 g are required. Spinal mount was probably the smaller R mount (quess).

No Canon designs for the Tronskia class Dreadnaught, Auliaau class Rider, Vargr Arrghonz class Dreadnaught or Quiquilat Tender, were published.

Megatraveller Battleship/Rider designs include.
Voroshilef Battleship (Canon)
World Battletender (non canon)
Zhimaway Rider (non canon)
Inkaalur Battleship (canon, updated by Clay Bush)
Tronskia Battleship (non canon, my design)
Plankwell Battleship (non canon, clay bush)
Plankwill Battleship (non canon, Scott Olson)
Akhaegtoullae Battleship (vargr non canon, roger Myhre)
Kongo Battleship (Julian non canon, my Design)
Most of these were published in various Fanzine's Etc. so while not stricktly GDW canon, they did recieve "publication" and were passed around. (Pre internet snail mail)
Tronskia
W
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by me:
Those were Rob Dean's work IIRC, so yes, quite deadly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooops. Those were actually Scott Olsen designs. Another VERY prolific designer, but a bit later than Rob Dean. Scott specialized in finely tuned designs, and was an early champion of the modular power plant approach (one plant for the drives and life support, with a month of fuel; another plant or three (depending on the ship) for weapons, screens, emergency agility, etc that only had a few days worth of fuel; in MT the fuel savings for doing this can be very significant).

All good stuff...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GypsyComet:
Ooops. Those were actually Scott Olsen designs. Another VERY prolific designer, but a bit later than Rob Dean. Scott specialized in finely tuned designs, and was an early champion of the modular power plant approach (one plant for the drives and life support, with a month of fuel; another plant or three (depending on the ship) for weapons, screens, emergency agility, etc that only had a few days worth of fuel; in MT the fuel savings for doing this can be very significant).

All good stuff...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<boggle> Which issue of Challenge was this in? I'm curious, because this sounds VERY familiar.....

StrikerFan
 
I am a librarian in real life and a librarian when I am asked to do Traveller searches <grumble, grumble, grumble>

Traveller, Ships of the Black War, issue 60- pg. 25 ~~if Marc's index is correct...as I don't have time to dig up originals.
Source: http://home.aol.com/SFRPG/T10e.html
.
.
.
.
.
Also for some up to date Ship listing there is also TNE Regency Sourcebook, alas, a Starships volume was promised but never delievered (because of GDW's bankrupcy). But, there was a companion which featured ground vehicles that can be quite inspiring too.
.
.
.
So MJD, do not forget to include a huge list of Starships that will Vampire Hunters (no pun intended) in your TNE sourcebook.

[This message has been edited by kafka47 (edited 19 October 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
I am a librarian in real life and a librarian when I am asked to do Traveller searches <grumble, grumble, grumble>

Traveller, Ships of the Black War, issue 60- pg. 25 ~~if Marc's index is correct...as I don't have time to dig up originals.
Source: http://home.aol.com/SFRPG/T10e.html
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. Looking it up further, looks like the ships in that article are credited to Charles Gannon, not Scott Olson. I'll have to check the collection and see if I have that issue or not, don't remember the article offhand, but it could be in the collection.

StrikerFan
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StrikerFan:
Thanks. Looking it up further, looks like the ships in that article are credited to Charles Gannon, not Scott Olson. I'll have to check the collection and see if I have that issue or not, don't remember the article offhand, but it could be in the collection.

StrikerFan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tha article (and the illustrations?) were by Chuck Gannon, but the designs were by Rob Dean. IIRC I read somewhere that Rob didn´t receive proper credits for this article accidentally.



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