I have a tough decision to make about the OTU-variant I'll develop; the choice is between a quasi-proto-traveller "(semi) Dark Imperium" (see A1: Kinunir and A4: Leviathan), a Virusless Hard Times era, a "toned down Virus" 1150 semi-Hard Times era, "Vanilla" TNE or a "toned down Virus" TNE.
Which of the following versions of the OTU would you like to play in?
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
Due to financial reasons, I will not be able to purchase TNE: 1248 in the near future, unless, ofcourse, I'll be able to convince someone to buy it for me in exchange for CT-style deckplan work. If I'll be able to finance it, I'll be glad to take a thorough look through it and possibly use it - or write a polity or area for it
Other than that, I'm currently leaning towards either a Dark Imperium (based Proto-Trav but modified a bit for flavor and useability; not 100% cannonical) or a semi-Hard Times, toned-down-Virus 1150 milieu; both, ofcourse, would be variants on the OTU and only partially cannonical, in order to diversify and not step on anyone's toes.
Other than that, I'm currently leaning towards either a Dark Imperium (based Proto-Trav but modified a bit for flavor and useability; not 100% cannonical) or a semi-Hard Times, toned-down-Virus 1150 milieu; both, ofcourse, would be variants on the OTU and only partially cannonical, in order to diversify and not step on anyone's toes.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
I chose #4, the canonical TNE. It becomes rather a matter of interpretation whether or not 1248 will be viewed as "toned-down" Virus era, as we did when we (the Pyromaniacs) worked on it with MJD, did understand that he was toning down the effects back to where they should've been: ala, (A)constrained by the datasystem they inhabited; and (B) not omnipresent like some took it to be.
1248 then becomes more "back on track", a story of Humaniti/ sophontry's long road of struggling together/ against one another to get back on their feet and maintain an insterstellar civilization again.
YMMV.
1248 then becomes more "back on track", a story of Humaniti/ sophontry's long road of struggling together/ against one another to get back on their feet and maintain an insterstellar civilization again.
YMMV.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I'm torn between the proto-Traveller setting and canonical TNE - my vote goes to pT.
I would change that vote to 1248 in an instant though, because the 1248 setting combines everything I like about the TNE setting with the opportunity to use many pT ideas I have.
I would change that vote to 1248 in an instant though, because the 1248 setting combines everything I like about the TNE setting with the opportunity to use many pT ideas I have.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
I fail to understand this post modern draw to dark and negative futures. Tell me again how that is somehow better than a Stable, Working Imperium and Known Space? You will pardon if I speak out of frustration and vexation at the many heads of the Hydra, gentlemen.
I think this game would overall do better if it presented a future that people would actually want to live in, as opposed to one that is a bit "fun challenged". There seems to be a stong move to tear down rather than build. It is a little too Traveller-Deconstructo.
I have nothing to lose by speaking my mind, so I will. Things like the Rebellion, Virus, and what have you ARE AWFUL IDEAS! Would you want to live in such times? Really? Speak frankly!
Anyone that has said that a stable Imperium with no gimmicks is "boring" is playing it wrong, or perhaps needs to take some imagination pills. There can be conflict without all the oh-so-done "Darkness" that in reality, on few are supportive of. I am with Arthur C. Clarke in the view that Humaniti on the whole has a brighter future if it truly wants it.
This is why I set every game i run in the year 1100. I do not like to be pigeonholed into a concrete and inescapable background that is quite frankly not that good at is core. It is pretty grim. You can have conflict without Universal Armageddon, you know. Try it sometime, you may be surprised...
I think this game would overall do better if it presented a future that people would actually want to live in, as opposed to one that is a bit "fun challenged". There seems to be a stong move to tear down rather than build. It is a little too Traveller-Deconstructo.
I have nothing to lose by speaking my mind, so I will. Things like the Rebellion, Virus, and what have you ARE AWFUL IDEAS! Would you want to live in such times? Really? Speak frankly!
Anyone that has said that a stable Imperium with no gimmicks is "boring" is playing it wrong, or perhaps needs to take some imagination pills. There can be conflict without all the oh-so-done "Darkness" that in reality, on few are supportive of. I am with Arthur C. Clarke in the view that Humaniti on the whole has a brighter future if it truly wants it.
This is why I set every game i run in the year 1100. I do not like to be pigeonholed into a concrete and inescapable background that is quite frankly not that good at is core. It is pretty grim. You can have conflict without Universal Armageddon, you know. Try it sometime, you may be surprised...
P
Pickles
Guest
As Frodo said, nobody wants to read those sorts of tales (apologies to J.R.R., all my belongings are on a ship somewhere). I think the point is that we (I) want to play in these settings, not live in them. 
I like a bit of struggle and setback in my gaming. My ATU is considerably more dystopian than most of the OTUs.
I'd like to live on my own Mediterranean island in a house designed by John Pawson, but the RPG opportunities are not my cup of tea.
I like a bit of struggle and setback in my gaming. My ATU is considerably more dystopian than most of the OTUs.
I'd like to live on my own Mediterranean island in a house designed by John Pawson, but the RPG opportunities are not my cup of tea.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Frodo has his own franchise. And you may ask any one of my players about conflict in my own games. I ahve had some go run screaming from them. There is conflict on big scale, a lot of action, and without all the meta plunking.
That is not what I am talking about. And you automatically consider that a stable imperium is Stable, which it would never be with warring nobles, crime, mercenaries everywhere. You can have all that without all the burnt out planets and dead people I'm sure. Peter the Great used to put embryonic chickens in the bottom of guests soup bowls for laughs too, I guess its a matter of taste.
By "live" I mean "get your head around". I must have an overly kind nature, in as much as I do not see wanton destruction as challenging. The Challenge is in the building. It would seem the 'enjoyment" is in the destroying. Which says volumes I guess as to the state of what is the Gamer.
Plus, gimmicky meta backgrounds are very limiting.
That is not what I am talking about. And you automatically consider that a stable imperium is Stable, which it would never be with warring nobles, crime, mercenaries everywhere. You can have all that without all the burnt out planets and dead people I'm sure. Peter the Great used to put embryonic chickens in the bottom of guests soup bowls for laughs too, I guess its a matter of taste.
By "live" I mean "get your head around". I must have an overly kind nature, in as much as I do not see wanton destruction as challenging. The Challenge is in the building. It would seem the 'enjoyment" is in the destroying. Which says volumes I guess as to the state of what is the Gamer.
Plus, gimmicky meta backgrounds are very limiting.
Part of the appeal of the dark is generational angst. The other part is the view that progress has somewhat halted and is now going in reverse. The other part is the optimistic future has been killed by war, starvation, want, pestillence and disease, etc...however, the fight to change all that remains intact. So make your archtypes dark and it will take real heroes to overcome it...such as ordinary people that make up an average Traveller group.
Jump drive is a gimmick. The Ancients spreading humanity to the stars is another gimmick. Every game I've ever enjoyed has had one gimmick or another in the background.
I don't have anything against the Imperium as it is portrayed in the original materials, but that Imperium includes senators imprisoned in the Gash and the Emperor's personal anagathics nature preserve and the Forboldn Project.
A bit of Dark lets you Fight the Darkness. It's also colorfully real. I like my Imperium to be the same dark universe we live in; it's the only one I know, and we know that of all the Wheels Within Wheels, some are darker than others, but at the core is a bunch of complex people who have their own agendas and are willing to stomp on others to see them accomplished.
I don't care for a gothically dark setting, though. But too much brightness blinds me just as much as too much darkness.
I don't care for a gothically dark setting, though. But too much brightness blinds me just as much as too much darkness.
Your vision of the "Stable Imperium" is, it seems, in accord with my vision of the "Dark Imperium". "Dark Imperium" does not mean "StarWars Evil Empire", it means an interesant Imperium which looks after its interests in zeal and uses a stong-arm approach to crush anything which stands in its way. It means nobles conspiring against other nobles, planets going to war while the Imperium turns a blind eye. It means that significant people who speak too freely against the Imperium might end up in an orbital prison - no, they won't arrest you for telling jokes about the Emperor or criticising (sp?) the local Archduke in your home, but they WILL arrest you for publically campaigning against a corrupt noble. It means using coercion and bribes to get people to sign up for the next Imperial colony project. It means megacorps engaging in practical slavery with no fear of Imperial reprisal (in most cases). It means corporates intervening in planetary politics and using mercs to do their dirty jobs. It means that the Imperium suffers from all the flaws (and advantages, too) of a quasi-feudal monarchy. It means a dark background against which the PCs could shine. Without darkness there is no light; without the Sherieff of Nottingham there would be no Robin Hood; without the archvillian there would be no superhero.
Hard Times are a bad place, yes, but a bad place in which the PCs could make a difference and make it far less bad; the Second Long Night is not inevitable, and it could be staved off or even prevented by heroism, by hope, by hard work, by being better than those who brought the darkness on Humaniti.
Baron:
Whilst I don't do a stable Dark Imperium, I do one in a chaotic balance; it swings around a bit, there is always a rebellion on somewhere. It holds together due to inertia and just a hair more centripetal force than centrifugal; The Navy quite literally binds the Imperium together. Dukes fear the Navy, mostly because a great many were IN the navy, and know it is ruthless in enforcing the Emperor's Will.
I sure wouldn't want to LIVE there, but to game there is a place where nobles plot and scheme, The Navy will squish you given half a chance, local worlds can get pretty well hellish, and nobody off-world really cares about backwater locals. Worlds are property... the people on them are a resource, and only Imperial Citizens (which is not congruent with sophonts/protected beings/subjects) having done their time for the Imperium have true freedom to travel.
Whilst I don't do a stable Dark Imperium, I do one in a chaotic balance; it swings around a bit, there is always a rebellion on somewhere. It holds together due to inertia and just a hair more centripetal force than centrifugal; The Navy quite literally binds the Imperium together. Dukes fear the Navy, mostly because a great many were IN the navy, and know it is ruthless in enforcing the Emperor's Will.
I sure wouldn't want to LIVE there, but to game there is a place where nobles plot and scheme, The Navy will squish you given half a chance, local worlds can get pretty well hellish, and nobody off-world really cares about backwater locals. Worlds are property... the people on them are a resource, and only Imperial Citizens (which is not congruent with sophonts/protected beings/subjects) having done their time for the Imperium have true freedom to travel.
M
Malenfant
Guest
You've evidently misunderstood where people get their enjoyment from in these settings.
The destruction has already happened - in these "dark" background the players aren't involved in all that, it's history (unless they're playing the people doing the destroying, but the majority of gamers aren't really into that). What you don't seem to get is that the attraction of these bleak, blasted settings is that it's all ABOUT rebuilding, overcoming serious challenges and making a difference.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
I guess I should elaborate more. My gripe is a question of degree. By Stable, I mean that by and large trade is working, but its not all sniffing flowers. I prefer a Large, Explored imperium, without all those damn X Starports. I guess it is the thought of all those worlds going caveman/perhaps environmentally destroyed that bothers me. It makes us seem to be really, really stupid as a species, and we're not all the time.
Sure, we got wars, we got drugs, crime, you name it. But we also beat Polio, went to the moon, and got me mum a new Titanium kneecap. If some jive like the Virus can beat us, then we either had it coming, or were asleep at the switch.
If we as humans in the 57th Century (hypethetically, of course) were to allow that to come about, then the question arises if we even deserve to Rise out of the Ashes.
IMTU, Known Space is known space. Even on the streets of Capital, you could get mugged by thugs. There is always the "downtown" angle to it. Sometimes there are full on Dystopias on worlds. People run by Machine. People controlled by Aliens. Logan's Run stuff, you name it.
Azun, in Canon is a good example.
Also, IMTU,
1.The K'Kree will KILL you by trampling if they smell meat on you.
2.The Hivers WILL totally alter a culture's path as if they were playing Checkers.
3.The Solomani Confederation in my game is taking a bit of a "Breather" after the War to oust the Megacorporations (please consider that for a second, the scale of it) and after Exterminating every non-human residing in the Sphere. And by Breather i mena they are taking the time to get a Titanium Fist on the population of the Sphere. It is some DARK stuff. 1984 Stuff.
My point is, how much more Dark do you need before it seems like your character would WISH he missed his survival roll? I mean on a basic human psyche level. It would be like playing Gamma World*, but two seconds after Doomsday. Or making a "The Day After" Boardgame.
Call of Cthulhu has the gimmick of that , no matter what, your PC no matter how cool, is going to end up in a straightjacket (A grim prospect if you consider the Mental Health Apparatus of the 20s) That is Part of it.
It again comes back to is Traveller served well by such a hopeless set of circumstances?
Our own universe is pretty damn dark already! I must have watched so much Star Trek that I really do believe that humanity has a better future than cyberpunk of 40k. Not one totally free of conflict though. It NEVER would be without problems, EVER.
*I love this Game.
Sure, we got wars, we got drugs, crime, you name it. But we also beat Polio, went to the moon, and got me mum a new Titanium kneecap. If some jive like the Virus can beat us, then we either had it coming, or were asleep at the switch.
If we as humans in the 57th Century (hypethetically, of course) were to allow that to come about, then the question arises if we even deserve to Rise out of the Ashes.
IMTU, Known Space is known space. Even on the streets of Capital, you could get mugged by thugs. There is always the "downtown" angle to it. Sometimes there are full on Dystopias on worlds. People run by Machine. People controlled by Aliens. Logan's Run stuff, you name it.
Azun, in Canon is a good example.
Also, IMTU,
1.The K'Kree will KILL you by trampling if they smell meat on you.
2.The Hivers WILL totally alter a culture's path as if they were playing Checkers.
3.The Solomani Confederation in my game is taking a bit of a "Breather" after the War to oust the Megacorporations (please consider that for a second, the scale of it) and after Exterminating every non-human residing in the Sphere. And by Breather i mena they are taking the time to get a Titanium Fist on the population of the Sphere. It is some DARK stuff. 1984 Stuff.
My point is, how much more Dark do you need before it seems like your character would WISH he missed his survival roll? I mean on a basic human psyche level. It would be like playing Gamma World*, but two seconds after Doomsday. Or making a "The Day After" Boardgame.
Call of Cthulhu has the gimmick of that , no matter what, your PC no matter how cool, is going to end up in a straightjacket (A grim prospect if you consider the Mental Health Apparatus of the 20s) That is Part of it.
It again comes back to is Traveller served well by such a hopeless set of circumstances?
Our own universe is pretty damn dark already! I must have watched so much Star Trek that I really do believe that humanity has a better future than cyberpunk of 40k. Not one totally free of conflict though. It NEVER would be without problems, EVER.
*I love this Game.
That's why I prefer Hard Times over TNE proper by a great degree: Sure, the economy is at a low point, and there is a certain decline in technology; but cavemen or Starport-X worlds are rare. It is a time of change, of the collapse of empires, of the fall of the high and mighty - but also a time of great potential for building something far better than the tyrannies of the past, a time of hope and of promise; a time when recovery is right around the corner, when the machines and factories are not destroyed but merely shut down due to economical reasons, when the enemy is the dark shadow of the past and the prise is the future. It is, in short, a moment of transition, where the tyrants have fallen victimes to their own designs and the chains of yesterday are shattered to dust.
It seems that your "Stable OTU" is, more or less, my "Dark Imperium" - or even darker.
