What, if anything, is like gold?
- Thread starter William
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PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Lanthanum.
Rare.
Critical for jump coils.
tied up with all sorts of imperial regulations as the navy wants cheap Lanthanum for themselves but doesn't want it being sold to anyone else's navy.
It's an awesome Maguffin, and played a minor role in the Traveller Adventure. (part of the plot involved illegal lanthanum exports).
Garf.
Rare.
Critical for jump coils.
tied up with all sorts of imperial regulations as the navy wants cheap Lanthanum for themselves but doesn't want it being sold to anyone else's navy.
It's an awesome Maguffin, and played a minor role in the Traveller Adventure. (part of the plot involved illegal lanthanum exports).
Garf.
In a society as advanced as Traveller, gold and platinum will be as cheap as aluminum. Even without any transmorgification, the amount of gold and platinum available in the average asteroid belt is shockingly huge (see, e.g., The Third Industrial Revolution; Ben Bova's the High Road; and pretty much any text on extrasolar geography). They have huge industrial uses, so they will always be commodities and worth a fair amount, but I don't they will have much intrinsic value.
I very much like the idea of very rare gems which are harder than diamond (e.g., Alan Dean Foster's "Ozmiond" or whatever it was in his Humanx universe (notably in Icerigger))...
I very much like the idea of very rare gems which are harder than diamond (e.g., Alan Dean Foster's "Ozmiond" or whatever it was in his Humanx universe (notably in Icerigger))...
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
I think the LBB adventure. Leviathan has some stuff on what's precious and what's not.
The plot is that the pc's have been hired as command crew for an HUGE merchant cruiser it's five year mission, to seek out new markets, new profitible resources to exploit, to boldly trade where no merchant has traded ...you get the drift.
Never ran the adventure but found it a cool read.
The plot is that the pc's have been hired as command crew for an HUGE merchant cruiser it's five year mission, to seek out new markets, new profitible resources to exploit, to boldly trade where no merchant has traded ...you get the drift.
Never ran the adventure but found it a cool read.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Why there's nothing rarer or more sought after than Unobtanium. It is the most closely guarded element in the universe. Only a few gigglegrams* of it are collected annually in the whole Imperium and it is hoarded by the secret order of Handwaviun Engineers for their personal use.
*Gigglegram - a unit of measure written as a decimal followed by 100 zeros, in this case a mass in grams.
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Ok, just in case anybody thinks this is not in jest, to quote Einstein...
I made up the gigglegram bit, inspired of course by the googol (a 1 followed by 100 zeros) but stole the rest from (I think originally but I may be wrong) the TML. My personal definitions: Unobtanium (from the latin 'ob' - towards + 'tenere' - to hold and old english 'un' - not, literally 'not gettin any') is a versatile element that can be made to cover any apparent flaw and it's application often employs the engineering technique known informally as the hand-wave, best performed with the tongue firmly planted in the cheek.
*Gigglegram - a unit of measure written as a decimal followed by 100 zeros, in this case a mass in grams.
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Ok, just in case anybody thinks this is not in jest, to quote Einstein...
I made up the gigglegram bit, inspired of course by the googol (a 1 followed by 100 zeros) but stole the rest from (I think originally but I may be wrong) the TML. My personal definitions: Unobtanium (from the latin 'ob' - towards + 'tenere' - to hold and old english 'un' - not, literally 'not gettin any') is a versatile element that can be made to cover any apparent flaw and it's application often employs the engineering technique known informally as the hand-wave, best performed with the tongue firmly planted in the cheek.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Anagathics.
Rare.
Really handy (allows you to ignore ageing throws).
Illegal for Nobles (anagathics remove your chance of making new generations of nobles) Who are probably the wealthiest and most connected of pottential clients.
These too make a good MacGuffin.
Rare.
Really handy (allows you to ignore ageing throws).
Illegal for Nobles (anagathics remove your chance of making new generations of nobles) Who are probably the wealthiest and most connected of pottential clients.
These too make a good MacGuffin.
just look at whats valuable in todays society...and intensify it:
Information?...always, the more technologically dependant, the more valuable the information.
Today is oil, by the 3E it has to be the lananthum for j coils, imagine a cluster of worlds that are high in this element, an OPEC of the 3E...
Always there will be commodities, may not be credit though, primative art works that are 'the rage' on techno planet -x- could be more valuable that gold or platinum, while a common slow drug on said primative world is worth a cheif's daughter and six horses....
Any rare minerals that cannot be lab reproduced.
Information?...always, the more technologically dependant, the more valuable the information.
Today is oil, by the 3E it has to be the lananthum for j coils, imagine a cluster of worlds that are high in this element, an OPEC of the 3E...
Always there will be commodities, may not be credit though, primative art works that are 'the rage' on techno planet -x- could be more valuable that gold or platinum, while a common slow drug on said primative world is worth a cheif's daughter and six horses....
Any rare minerals that cannot be lab reproduced.
Shadowdancer
SOC-14 1K
High-tech military equipment -- "cloaking" devices for ships, battle suits and man-portable plasma weapons for individuals
Information -- secret "sleeper" Zhodane bases behind Imperial lines, planned Zhodane invasion routes with already established but hidden supply depots/caches
Ancient artifacts -- a helmet that allows the wearer to have psionic powers
Information -- secret "sleeper" Zhodane bases behind Imperial lines, planned Zhodane invasion routes with already established but hidden supply depots/caches
Ancient artifacts -- a helmet that allows the wearer to have psionic powers
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
heres a thought - LIFE - the most presious thing there is - and everthing used to maintain it -
how bout longevity drugs??
how bout longevity drugs??
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
8+ to hit - bang your dead sucker!!! now what are you going to do with all your "wealth"?????
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Despite the fact that I don't believe it was his intent. ( afterall he's used an identical phrase on another topic to no productive purpose).
Trader Jim does raise a valid point.
Weopans and Ammo.
Escpecially Naval weapons, especially cutting edge naval weapons
(as Paraquat Johnson suggests earlier, cloaking devices, microjump machines, White Globe Generators, The secret of the star Trigger)
Those make a wonderful MacGuffin.
Guns and Ammo also make good far trader commodities.
to paraphrase H. Beam Piper.
"How much is a submachinegun and a 100 rnds of ammunition worth to a settler on some world like...<snip>...How much is his life worth?"
Trader Jim does raise a valid point.
Weopans and Ammo.
Escpecially Naval weapons, especially cutting edge naval weapons
(as Paraquat Johnson suggests earlier, cloaking devices, microjump machines, White Globe Generators, The secret of the star Trigger)
Those make a wonderful MacGuffin.
Guns and Ammo also make good far trader commodities.
to paraphrase H. Beam Piper.
"How much is a submachinegun and a 100 rnds of ammunition worth to a settler on some world like...<snip>...How much is his life worth?"
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
They are called Anagathics, Trader Jim. and they've been mentioned.
Garf.
Simon Jester
SOC-12
An Imperial Warrant.
The design specs for a J-7 engine. Or the engine itself.
Design specs for an type of FTL communicator, even if it's limited to just a few hundred AU range (a la David Weber's Honorverse). Or the communicator itself.
Design specs for a Mass Conversion powerplant. Or the ...
you get the idea.
Simon Jester
The design specs for a J-7 engine. Or the engine itself.
Design specs for an type of FTL communicator, even if it's limited to just a few hundred AU range (a la David Weber's Honorverse). Or the communicator itself.
Design specs for a Mass Conversion powerplant. Or the ...
you get the idea.
Simon Jester
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
as i understood the thread, folks were talking about wealth, something realy valuable. i ment what i said. it does serve a purpous. i used a rather strong way of expressing an idea. objects are rather worthless, man puts value on objects, if your dead your wealth is useless - therefor -
life is the most important thing - and yes the statment was used elswear and i could even use it again.
life is the most important thing - and yes the statment was used elswear and i could even use it again.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Trader Jim:
The thread was seeking a 'MacGuffin' a... literary device, a wanted thing.
The original poster wanted something that would serve as the 'Maltese Falcon' of his Film Noir.
As such I don't think your comments contributed much to the discussion.
Especially in light of similar... shall we say "wiseacre" comments you've made in a short span of time accross several topics? (I especially like the one about Vargr Pelts...)
Garf.
The thread was seeking a 'MacGuffin' a... literary device, a wanted thing.
The original poster wanted something that would serve as the 'Maltese Falcon' of his Film Noir.
As such I don't think your comments contributed much to the discussion.
Especially in light of similar... shall we say "wiseacre" comments you've made in a short span of time accross several topics? (I especially like the one about Vargr Pelts...)
Garf.
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
OHO - now i get you!! i totaly misunderstood! i sure blue that one!! maybe thats what i get when i try to post something after a 14 hour work shift!! mayby i shouldnt post ANYTHING after a day like yesterday!!!!!
Smiling DM
SOC-12
I'd like to inject some real world facts about lanthanum - it ain't rare. About as abundant in the earth's crust as lead.
Now, it is in the family of the called the "Rare Earths" (check your periodic table) - in fact it heads up the Lanthanide series, the first row of elements that doesn't fit Mendelev's two-dimensional chart for organizing the elements.
The reason for the designation of "Rare" had to do with the difficulty of seperating the individual elements of the Lanthanide series (they all occur together - all 15 of em - in 3 different types of ore). This difficulty was overcame in the 1940's when the US government was investigating seperation techniques for another family of hard-to-single-out elements - the Actinides - in the quest for Uranium.
The designation "rare earths" has nothing to do with abundance - though indeed the further you go down the line of 15 elements, they do indeed get scarce, Lanthanum is the most abundant of them.
Lecture is now over - hope this was somewhat informative.
IMTU - I maintain the canon of lanthanum being used in Jump drives, but to keep it exotic, its how the lanthanum grid was fabricated that makes it 'special' - essentially its a weave of milliones of individual lanthanum ultrafine filaments hundreds of atoms thinck (something that can't quite be manufactured yet, but should be available at TL10 and steadily get easier with higher TL). The coarseness of the weave dictates the limit to Jump number (amongst other things), so at TL15, the weave is actually composed of true mono-filaments - 1 atom thick. The more complex the weave, then the more power you can put through it, thus enabling higher Jump fields.
So, to get back on topic, something that is rare and valued:
-Refined goods
-especially high tech refined goods
Yes, raw materials are great, but the real value add comes from having the ability to shape them into 'something' else - its called "value add" - and when you have the spread of TL like the Traveller universe, the potential advatnage for increased value because of differential TL's is staggering.
I also like the aspect of Anagathics - something refined, highly processed, and requiring high TL.
Sorry for the long post - somone rated me and I felt so self-important that I just had to keep writing thinking everyone would want to read it
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Execellent post actually.
Hmmm. Whelp just goes to show you that even The wonderful brains behind the Traveller universe can make mistakes. The impression one get's of Lanthanum from the write up about the Patinir Belt found in The Traveller Adventure, is that it is rare enough to be valuable.
But I agree with you.
In the far future with the resources of Uncounted worlds (I certainly didn't try to count just now) there would be NO intrinically valuable raw material. Their may be local needs. but the reall money is in 'Value added' products and 'Information'
The best MacGuffin wouldn't be a cache of uncut diamonds so much as a legendary diamond (ala hope diamond)
It wouldn't be a lost ship with a cargo of cash (countefiet or not). So much as one With 'Sensitive Documents' on board.
And Trader Jim's comments on life... come into play:
what about the MacGuffin being a valued PERSON?
any of these items has a value that depends on time and situation. It make them more problematic. (And more interesting) than mere gold.
Now there's time pressure. (Find General Schmidt before his Oxygen runs out.) Or legal complications. (Captain! these... smugglers are carrying a load of PSI DRUGS!... WITCH!!! WITCH!!!)
Intersteller Intrigue (This Naval Courier was carrying news to Duke Norris 6months before the X-boats would have brought it. AND there's no mention of an ArchDucal Patent!)
And of course the prospect of great wealth (We'd give you more money than you could imagine for her rescue... I don't know I can imagine quite alot)
Garf.
Hmmm. Whelp just goes to show you that even The wonderful brains behind the Traveller universe can make mistakes. The impression one get's of Lanthanum from the write up about the Patinir Belt found in The Traveller Adventure, is that it is rare enough to be valuable.
But I agree with you.
In the far future with the resources of Uncounted worlds (I certainly didn't try to count just now) there would be NO intrinically valuable raw material. Their may be local needs. but the reall money is in 'Value added' products and 'Information'
The best MacGuffin wouldn't be a cache of uncut diamonds so much as a legendary diamond (ala hope diamond)
It wouldn't be a lost ship with a cargo of cash (countefiet or not). So much as one With 'Sensitive Documents' on board.
And Trader Jim's comments on life... come into play:
what about the MacGuffin being a valued PERSON?
any of these items has a value that depends on time and situation. It make them more problematic. (And more interesting) than mere gold.
Now there's time pressure. (Find General Schmidt before his Oxygen runs out.) Or legal complications. (Captain! these... smugglers are carrying a load of PSI DRUGS!... WITCH!!! WITCH!!!)
Intersteller Intrigue (This Naval Courier was carrying news to Duke Norris 6months before the X-boats would have brought it. AND there's no mention of an ArchDucal Patent!)
And of course the prospect of great wealth (We'd give you more money than you could imagine for her rescue... I don't know I can imagine quite alot)
Garf.
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