What are the Navy fleet support ships?

[Garyius2003]

Mongoose style, with 2k mobile shipping boxes?
Larger size?
Mobile repair bases the size of a battleship?
US Navy style largeish tankers and stores ships in one?
Largeish tenders for smaller warships?

Yes to all?

Side discussion, how many tons of supplies does a cruiser need per month, in wartime?
(under CT, MT, GURPS, and Mongoose?)

 

[sfchbryan]

MT has both Colliers & Dromedaries - 500K ton ships

Granted, they are poorly designed, but they are there.

 

[Garyius2003]

Sure, a tanker/oiler has to be 500k+, so it may as well be 600k+ with consumables and missile/sand reloads and some shuttles.

Otherwise, what does the fleet need, and how does it get it? Or is it all 750kton T-AOEs?

 

[rancke]

Tankers
Transports
Troop Transports
Couriers
Scoutships
Destroyers
Escorts
Ortillery?
Minesweepers


Hans

 

[SoCar_37]

More support ships (USN style)

Add in mobile repair ships and tenders. (AS, AD, AR)
Hospital Ships (AH)
Transport Fuellers vs. Replenishment Fuellers (AOT, AO)
Salvage Tugs (ARS)


SoCar-37

 

[far-trader]

What are the Navy fleet support ships?

Tankers
Transports
Troop Transports...

...possibly add:

Mobile Ports (service and repair)

Salvage and Tugs (disabled ship recovery, scavenge, or wrecking - includes Jump Shuttles similar the CT Supplement 9 System Defense Boat or or Jump Ship with jump net)

Search and Rescue

Hospital Ships

EDIT: ...hehe, great minds and all SoCar-37, I should type faster

Couriers
Scoutships
Destroyers
Escorts
Ortillery?
Minesweepers...

...are Combat Ships I think.

 

[far-trader]

Oh, and an official Welcome Aboard for your first post SoCar-37

Bonus points to your answer for the classification designations. Nice touch

 

[Garyius2003]

At TL15 (12 depending on your system) do you need a hospital ship when you just need low berths and a cargo ship to trundle back to the base?

I always thought orbital artillery was army and Marine unit equipment, too... So what would navy arty look like?

 

[Dragoner]

At TL15 (12 depending on your system) do you need a hospital ship when you just need low berths and a cargo ship to trundle back to the base?

I always thought orbital artillery was army and Marine unit equipment, too... So what would navy arty look like?

A bundle of tungsten telephone poles?

 

[far-trader]

At TL15 (12 depending on your system) do you need a hospital ship when you just need low berths and a cargo ship to trundle back to the base?

Depends.

Can you ship low berths in cargo as just so much freight? Or do they need specialized power taps and monitoring?

There's also the logistics side of it of course. Are you going to popsicle all your casualties, wait to transfer them to a transport, wait for that transport to go very possibly a very long way back to a base, and then wait an equally long time for the recovered personnel to ship back out on a troop transport? Or, do you want to have them triaged asap, have the Hospital Ship quickly patch who can be, and be back to fighting strength quicker and closer to the action?

I always thought orbital artillery was army and Marine unit equipment, too... So what would navy arty look like?

Artillery is definitely Army, up to sub-orbital muntions imo. Anything raining down from the heavens (ortillery) is the Navy. The Marines ARE special ortillery (Drop Troops). At least I've always seen it that way and vaguely recall CT setting it up that way.

 

[rancke]

...are Combat Ships I think.

Combat vessels are the ships the support ships support, i.e. not auxiliaries.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

Right you are Hans. I was confusing the OP's apparent seeking of auxiliaries with the stated support. Auxiliaries (non-combat) are support, but not all support are auxiliaries.

Meanwhile a few others have occurred to me then as possibles in the support/auxiliary roles (at least in Terran wet navy usage). If I didn't miss them above:

Command

Research

Survey

 

[aramis]

Combat vessels are the ships the support ships support, i.e. not auxiliaries.


Hans

Actually, some "auxiliaries" ARE combat vessels.

the following wikipedia entry shows use of "auxiliary cruiser": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_merchantman

An AuxC is a merchantman converted to a combattant. For example, putting a 10 or 50 ton missile bay mount into a TypeR in the front end of the bay.

 

[SoCar_37]

Hospital Ships

Depends.

Can you ship low berths in cargo as just so much freight? Or do they need specialized power taps and monitoring?

There's also the logistics side of it of course. Are you going to popsicle all your casualties, wait to transfer them to a transport, wait for that transport to go very possibly a very long way back to a base, and then wait an equally long time for the recovered personnel to ship back out on a troop transport? Or, do you want to have them triaged asap, have the Hospital Ship quickly patch who can be, and be back to fighting strength quicker and closer to the action?
.

There's also the humanitarian side. During 'peacetime' the hospital ships can spend time acting as mobile clinics to disaster areas or the like. Helps keep the experience level up while promoting good relations.

SoCar-37
"Prepared in Mind and Resources"

 

[rancke]

Actually, some "auxiliaries" ARE combat vessels.

They may be able to fight, but they fall in a different category than what the Third Imperium calls combat vessels.

"Each sector of the Imperium theoretically has a group of fleets numbering about 1000 ships. This number includes combat vessels such as cruisers, carriers, battleships, and some escorts. It does not include auxiliaries, support ships, and scouts." [RbS:27]​

I'd forgotten that auxiliaries and support ships were listed as separate categories. I'm not quite sure what remains to be auxiliaries when cruisers, carriers, battleships, some escorts, support ships, and scouts are something else. Most escorts?


Hans

 

[Starviking]

They may be able to fight, but they fall in a different category than what the Third Imperium calls combat vessels.

"Each sector of the Imperium theoretically has a group of fleets numbering about 1000 ships. This number includes combat vessels such as cruisers, carriers, battleships, and some escorts. It does not include auxiliaries, support ships, and scouts." [RbS:27]​

I'd forgotten that auxiliaries and support ships were listed as separate categories. I'm not quite sure what remains to be auxiliaries when cruisers, carriers, battleships, some escorts, support ships, and scouts are something else. Most escorts?


Hans

From a naval history perspective escorts would not be auxiliaries - they are fighting ships. However, some escorts, and I'm thinking of the Royal Navy River Class Frigates of WWII, were focused on one task (convoy escort) so much that they were useless in main battlefleets. Perhaps, with this in mind, the Imperial Navy classes Patrol Cruisers and some Close Escorts as auxiliaries?

 

[rancke]

From a naval history perspective escorts would not be auxiliaries - they are fighting ships.

Wil just pointed out that from a historical perspective some auxiliaries are fighting ships.

However, some escorts, and I'm thinking of the Royal Navy River Class Frigates of WWII, were focused on one task (convoy escort) so much that they were useless in main battlefleets. Perhaps, with this in mind, the Imperial Navy classes Patrol Cruisers and some Close Escorts as auxiliaries?

I'm more puzzled by the distinction between auxiliaries and support ships (and scouts). I would have thought that conceptually support ships would all be auxiliaries, supporting the main elements of the IN, i.e. the combat vessels.


Hans

 

[Starviking]

Wil just pointed out that from a historical perspective some auxiliaries are fighting ships.

True, though it might be best to describe these vessels as Q-Ships: their disguise is their main asset. They would not be operating as an obvious combat vessel, as a Patrol Cruiser or Close Escort would.

I'm more puzzled by the distinction between auxiliaries and support ships (and scouts). I would have thought that conceptually support ships would all be auxiliaries, supporting the main elements of the IN, i.e. the combat vessels.

Hans

That would be the viewpoint of the Royal Navy - we have the Royal Fleet Auxilliary to man the vessels which support the Royal Navy's combat vessels.

 

[McPerth]

At TL15 (12 depending on your system) do you need a hospital ship when you just need low berths and a cargo ship to trundle back to the base?

I guess hospital ships would be quite useful. Aside from pace time humanitarian side, as someone has pointed, if you send your casualities requiring hospital to the rearguard dirtside hospitals, you may be taking out of action for many more weeks you personnel than needed.

If some of your casualities may be treated in 2-3 weeks of hospitalization, the time for sending them to rearguard could well outlast (let's say 3-4 weeks to reach the planet where hospital is, 2-3 in hospital and 3-4 to return them, so your 2-3 weeks off combat people are 8-11 weeks out) this very time, so raising your personnel replacement needs.

I always thought orbital artillery was army and Marine unit equipment, too... So what would navy arty look like?

In most traveller games with dirstside combat (FFW, IE) the cruisers/SDBs (and I guess fighters, included in other squadrons) are used to bombard ground units, so I guess ortillery is performed by the Navy squadrons, not by specialized ships.

 

[McPerth]

...possibly add:

Mobile Ports (service and repair)

Salvage and Tugs (disabled ship recovery, scavenge, or wrecking - includes Jump Shuttles similar the CT Supplement 9 System Defense Boat or or Jump Ship with jump net)

I've always though this misions were taken by the Tenders (as an aside from their BR transport main mission). In fact this is what I pointed on another thread as one of the main multi-raider Tender advantage over single-raider Tenders

Couriers
Scoutships
Destroyers
Escorts
Ortillery?
Minesweepers

...are Combat Ships I think.

IMHO, destroyers and escorts are, courriers aren't, scouts and minesweepers probably not (in fact, the scouts I envision are very lightly armed, if at all, to avoid some maverick capitain to engage combat, even with the lightest forces). About ortillery, as stated above, I see it as a mission of the main fleet squadrons (and its fighter complement), not as specialized ships.