What are some typical tasks for Mech/Elec 1/2/3?

[redwalker]

Suppose you have various characters with Mech and/or Elec skills at levels 1, 2, and 3.

What tasks would be typical?

Would you say that hand-lathing a gun-barrel requires Mech-2, for example?

Would assembling a breadboard circuit require only Elec-1 but soldering it require Elec-2?

What about debugging?

 

[atpollard]

My opinion:

Mechanical-1 = (parts changer) backyard mechanic replacing the break pads on the family car.

Mechanical-2 = (professional) Taking the car to the real mechanic to remove the bolt whose head a mechanic-1 broke off while "doing it himself".

Mechanical-3 = (the A-Team) "The engine block is cracked, but I can weld it and have you back on the road in a couple hours."

Mechanical-4 = (McGyver)

 

[pendragonman]

I always figured McGyver to be more of a JOT-5 or 6.

 

[Ishmael]

istead of focussing on the pc's skill level...how about focussing on the difficulty of the task

porting the heads?...looks a formidable job to me
changing a tire?..simple..peice o'cake
its just a 'routine' oil change
shoehorning a hemi into a volkswagon is 'impossible'!

unskilled folk never know just how hard a job is going to be

" a hemi into a VW?...just a few nuts and bolts, right?..how hard could it be? let me get some pliers and a screwdriver....."

at least a skill-0 can see how hard something is.

 

[flykiller]

Would assembling a breadboard circuit require only Elec-1 but soldering it require Elec-2?

I find technical details are difficult to handle in-game. you can't know every subject matter that comes up, your knowledge base is likely different from that of your players, and many subjects are strictly fantasy anyway and impossible to rate in any rational manner.

try rating a task largely by how often the character might be expected to do it. you can then coordinate the skill levels and task system such that <skill> 1 always successfully completes routine tasks, <skill> 2 almost always successfully completes unusual tasks, <skill> 3 usually successfully completes difficult tasks, and <skill> 4 often completes very difficult tasks.

for example, for a pilot, lifting off and heading for orbit is routine (regardless of how difficult it actually is). doing so during a hurricane in a narrow flight lane while dodging debris is not routine. one may quantify the increased difficulty by counting the factors against accomplishing the task - hurricane, narrow flight lane, debris - and raise the difficulty level by that many steps, from routine to very difficult. some factors may count for more than one level of increase.

this approach allows a more objective assessment of the difficulty of an action, lets the referee avoid some details, and also gives the players some quantifiable control over what they face (pilot: "tower, I'm not going to fly that narrow lane, you give me another one!") without having to argue technical details.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Chucky the Hammer:
I always figured McGyver to be more of a JOT-5 or 6.

That sounds about right, JOT-5 at skill minus 1 would allow him to modify "mechanical" devices as if he had Mechanical-4.

JOT just allows McGyver to be an expert in every field (Mechanical, Electrical, Chemistry, Demolitions, Nuclear Physics, etc), while our Mechanical-4 character would only be able to perform "Mechanical" McGyverisms.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

As an Electrical Engineer (Comms, Sensors, and Systems), let me give the Electronics skill a shot...

Electronics-0 (Solder Jockey): The character knows how to change fuses, batteries, and cables; and knows that switching off the power first and back on last are important steps. The character also understands basic Arithmetic. No formal training.

Electronics-1 (Junior Tech): The character is familiar with component codes and placement; understands the basic concepts of polarity, phase, resistance, reactance and resonance; and can handle most derivations of Ohm's Law, Watt's Law, and parallel/series formulas. The character also understands basic Algebra, Geometry, and Trig. (Vo-Tech degree, average grades).

Electronics-2 (Senior Tech): The character can design build, and troubleshoot simple circuitry; such as cables, switchboards, gated logic, and operational amplifiers. The character also understands advanced Algebra, Geometry, and Trig. (Vo-Tech degree, top grades).

Electronics-3 (Junior Engineer): The character can design, build, and troubleshoot complex circuitry; such as receivers, transmitters, mixers, process controllers, displays, and sensors. The character also understands basic Calculus. (Bachelor's Degree)

Electronics-4 (Senior Engineer): The character can design, build, and troubleshoot complex systems; such as communications suites, entertainment centers, manufacturing facilities, safety/security systems, and medical diagnostic equipment. The character also understands advanced Calculus. (Master's Degree)

Electronics-5+ (Scientist): The character not only understands the theories behind all forms of electronics, he can invent a few himself. This type of person is called upon to investigate Ancient devices and enemy technology. (Philosopher's Degree)

Higher skill levels simply imply greater proficiency, as well as less skill in other areas (such as miscellaneous social skills).

The character's skill level also gives his proficiency with technical tools. Anyone, with a little practice, can handle a soldering iron. But which would you rather have work on your quad-core mobo, a "Solder Jockey" or a Senior Engineer?

(There, how's that?)

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Heretic Keklas Rekobah:
As an Electrical Engineer (Comms, Sensors, and Systems), let me give the Electronics skill a shot...
[snip]
(There, how's that?)

Quite good actually.

Given:
* Medical-3 = Licensed Doctor
* an earlier discussion on the "power" of a +4/-4 modifier to assure success/failure to a 2d6 roll

I think that your skills may be skewed a little too high. One skill level per 2 years of formal education might work better … topping out at an Elec-4 = Ph.D.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by atpollard:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chucky the Hammer:
I always figured McGyver to be more of a JOT-5 or 6.

That sounds about right, JOT-5 at skill minus 1 would allow him to modify "mechanical" devices as if he had Mechanical-4.

JOT just allows McGyver to be an expert in every field (Mechanical, Electrical, Chemistry, Demolitions, Nuclear Physics, etc), while our Mechanical-4 character would only be able to perform "Mechanical" McGyverisms. </font>[/QUOTE]Umm, in what rule-set? CT it doesn't matter if you have JoT-1 or JoT-9 the effect is the same, any skill at level-0. In MT each level allows one free retry but you need the base skill to help. T20 kind of works like the above, but imo ruins the concept.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Originally posted by atpollard:
Given:
* Medical-3 = Licensed Doctor
* an earlier discussion on the "power" of a +4/-4 modifier to assure success/failure to a 2d6 roll

I think that your skills may be skewed a little too high. One skill level per 2 years of formal education might work better … topping out at an Elec-4 = Ph.D.

Remember that RW skills do not always follow the level of one's education. For example, I have an hourly shop tech that I use to bolster the efforts of my salaried field engineers when they're stumped (Of course the tech draws overtime pay!), while some of the best engineers turned out by Cal State Irvine can not solve a simple impedance problem!

I can not explain my rationale, but let me try it out on the Medical skill...

Medical-0 (Orderly / Candy Striper): Basic grunt-and-gopher work. Baths, massages, and other bodily needs. No formal training other than CPR and First Aid.

Medical-1 (LPN / LVN): May perform some invasive treatments (injections, catheterisations, etc.) under the supervision of an RN or Physician. Vo-Tech training.

Medical-2 (Intern / Paramedic / RN / Nurse Practitioner): May perform more invasive techniques (incision, suture, lavage, etc.) alone or under the supervision of a physician. May also diagnose/triage injuries and illnesses under emergency conditions. Undergraduate degree.

Medical-3 (Resident / Physician / General Practitioner): May perform outpatient surgury and invasive interventions. Prescribes medicines and treatments. May refer patients to specialists and surgeons. Undergraduate degree plus internship and residency.

Medical-4 (Specialist / Surgeon): Performs inpatient surgury as a matter of course, including transplants, amputations, and limb reattatchments. Master's degree.

Medical-5+ (Medical Scientist): A researcher and/or teacher in the medical field. Develops new treatments and medications. The "Miracle Worker" -- the person who takes on the toughest cases. May perform surgury on species other than his own. Philosopher's degree.

 

[Golan2072]

My opinion (under LBB1 assumptions):

Skill-0: Hobby and/or short training course.
- Medical example: CPR/first-aid course graduate.
- Technical example: hobbyist or someone after a two-week orientation course on the subject.
- Computer example: has read a few manuals.
- Weapon example: has shoot a gun a few times at a firing range or backyard; knows the basics of how to operate that gun (eject and insert magazines, operate the safety and so on).
- Vehicle example: inexperienced commuter.

Skill-1: Experienced or after a serious training course.
- Medical example: paramedic, ambulance driver or combat-medic.
- Technical example: technician or repair-man.
- Computer Example: Has learned a programming language from a guidebook or a crash-course; also some PC repairmen.
- Weapon example: experienced hunter, boot-camp graduate (in a combative unit) or a rookie cop.
- Vehicle example: experienced driver; amateur pilot; inexperienced cabbie or chauffeur.

Skill-2: Lower-grade professional.
- Medical example: nurse or experienced paramedic; pharmacologist (who'll also have Chemistry-2).
- Technical example: senior or experienced technician;
- Computer example: full-time programmer or computer technician.
- Weapon example: sharpshooter, experienced soldier/cop or elite-unit boot-camp graduate.
- Vehicle example: inexperienced civilian pilot or experienced cabbie/chauffeur.

Skill-3: Full professional.
- Medical example: Doctor (M.D.)
- Technical example: Engineer.
- Computer example: Software Engineer.
- Weapon example: Sniper or veteran.
- Vehicle example: car-racer, combat pilot, experienced civilian pilot.

Skill-4: Expert.
- Medical example: experienced or senior doctor (might have a Professor degree); medical researcher.
- Technical example: experienced or senior engineer; R&D scientist.
- Computer example: software designer.
- Weapon example: elite-unit veteran or professional sport shooter.
- Vehicle example: stunt driver, well-experienced combat pilot.

Skill-5+: World-class expert.
- Medical example: famous expert in medicine, usually a professor; award-winning medical researcher.
- Technical example: R&D project leader or famous engineer.
- Computer example: software guru.
- Weapon example: ace sniper or Olympic shooter.
- Vehicle example: formula-1 racer or world-known ace-pilot.
---

Under LBB1, Skill-1 is the most common occurance; Skill-3 is quite uncommon and Skill4+ is a rarity. Furthermore, beyond +1 or +2, bonuses have quite a hue impact on 2D6 roll probabilities. Therefore, each skill level covers quite a lot of ground, and each level represents more knowledge/experience than the former one. This also (partially?) justifies the pre-LBB4 experience rules - going from a Nurse (Medic-2) to a Doctor (Medic-3) takes several years in RL, doesn't it?

 

[redwalker]

Originally posted by Heretic Keklas Rekobah:
As an Electrical Engineer (Comms, Sensors, and Systems), let me give the Electronics skill a shot...
...{awesome stuff snipped}...
(There, how's that?)

That's exactly what I was looking for in terms of Electronics, thanks.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Heretic Keklas Rekobah:
Electronics-0 (Solder Jockey): The character knows how to change fuses, batteries, and cables; and knows that switching off the power first and back on last are important steps. The character also understands basic Arithmetic. No formal training.

Originally posted by Heretic Keklas Rekobah:
Remember that RW skills do not always follow the level of one's education. For example, I have an hourly shop tech that I use to bolster the efforts of my salaried field engineers when they're stumped (Of course the tech draws overtime pay!), while some of the best engineers turned out by Cal State Irvine can not solve a simple impedance problem!

A key area to focus on is the definition of Skill-0 in Your Universe. I have no training in Electronics but I can change a battery and a fuse and unclip a cable (Having graduated from elementary school, I also understand basic arithmetic) – yet I do not consider myself to possess Electronics-0. In my opinion, these items represent “common knowledge” with Electronics-0 representing a couple of Electronics courses and/or some experience with “hobby” kits. Skill-0 falls above the “average man on the street” but below “good enough to get a job doing it” (strictly my opinion).

From the “College Options” in Classic Traveller, each 4-year term at a college will yield an average of 2 skills and Pilot School grants Pilot-1 in 2 years. The JTAS articles on College listed a skill-4 as representing a PhD in the skill (so a Masters Degree would represent Skill-3). The Continuing Education rules allow a temporary skill-1 after 4 years of “spare time study” and a permanent skill-1 after 8 years.

From this I have drawn my conclusion that each level of skill represents about 2 years of formal education or 4-8 years of practical experience. I suspect that your “knowledgeable” hourly tech is not 20 years old with 2 years of work experience.

I like your skill descriptions, I just think that they might all be inflated by 1 skill level. Since I am not the final authority on all things Traveller, feel free to disagree.

 

[aramis]

I, too believe skill 1 to be "employable" and not "amateur" since the resumes in CT show "Qualified" at level 1.

Level 0, to me, is "Mostly Trained but not experienced" or "competent amateur"

So the novice HAM Operator has Commo 0, and the student pilot has Pilot 0 at solo. The Medic 1 is a field medic or LPN, while medical 2 is RN or skilled paramedic, or maybe an Intern doc, and medical three is experienced RN, Competent Resident MD, or really experienced Paramedic.

Computer 0 is the guy who can install Unix software with Make. Comp 1 is install from raw source without a make file. Comp 2+ is writing whole applications, comp 3 is able to write OS's... and Comp 5 writes roms...

 

[tinker123]

Level 0, to me, is "Mostly Trained but not experienced" or "competent amateur"
... snip ....
Computer 0 is the guy who can install Unix software with Make

There's a difference between (say) level 0 in ATV (which is a DM-1 relative to level 1) and level 0 in Forward Observer (which is a DM-8 relative to level 1). Some tasks everyone can have a go at, and some they stand (next-to) no chance of achieving.

I'd pitch Computer 0 at the typical Windows user (all my family) who can install software if it auto-runs off the CD, and can run programs, but haven't a clue what's going on when something unexpected happens. They can print to a networked printer, but couldn't install one for themselves.

 

[aramis]

I'd argue the average Window's user is completely unskilled... at least, based upon what's in Bks 1 & 2...

MT strongly reconfirms that to me.

And Level 0 is not "No Expertise," but "reduced by excess skills" or "General Weapons Expertise" (in some printings, level 0 is labeled level 1/2). It doesn't count against the Maximum Skills limit. Since some characters can hit that limit in Prior Service, it is generally the practice that new skilsl reduce the level of some other skill, and a skill reduced from level 1 is retained at level 0 or 1/2, version dependent.

Forward Observer is one of the specifically listed skills for being appropriate for level 0.
See TTB p.29

 

[tinker123]

Well, my CD copy of Bk 1 says that Computer skill means the individual is skilled in the programming and operation of electronic and fibre optic computers. Operation to me means starting & stopping programs, and the specifics of using common software applications. So my family can start & use a web browser (Library Data) & do calculations with spreadsheets someone else has set up.

I'm a bit unsure of some of my sources, since I've always used the UK-printing LBBs, which I remember having 1/2 skills for weapons, and I've just switched to the CD reprint, which isn't quite the same. But I'm intrigued by your reading of skill-0. In the CD Bk1, under Default Skills p23 it suggests that F.O. is one of the skills where the ref can allow skill 0 to individuals without the skill. Do you read that as "no skill" has a DM-4, skill-0 has no DM, and skill-1 gets DM+4 ? That seems like quite a valuable 0 to have.

I can see two readings: skill-0 is just another way of saying "no skill", or skill-0 is a beginner's understanding, just enough to avoid the unskilled penalty DM. Contrast that with skills like Gambling (where there is no penalty for unskilled). And what's the point of awarding Steward-0, when there are no stewarding rolls required? Confused? I am.

 

[mbrinkhues]

In one of the Challenges they had an articel "What does Sidearm-1 mean anyway". Must be in the mid-50s. It was of 2300AD but the systems are close enough that the translations work out nicely.

We need a Challenge CD-ROM!