Was there an Ancient site on Terra?

[Carlobrand]

Entirely speculative. Do with it as you will:

We know from canon that the Ancients visited Terra 300,000 years ago, collecting groups of archaic homo sapiens and canidae that they took with them as they went back out to the stars on their curious errands. We know that the Ancients destroyed themselves in a cataclysmic war a short while after that.

And we know there's a crater in Australia, Wolf Creek Crater, an 875 meter wide crater formed a bit under 300,000 years ago by the impact of a meteor estimated at 50,000 tons. Coincidence? Or, an effort to take out a small Ancient base?

 

[aramis]

Sounds plausible.

ISTR there's an ancient base in the outer system, as well...but not in which product it was mentioned.

 

[DaveChase]

Entirely speculative. Do with it as you will:

We know from canon that the Ancients visited Terra 300,000 years ago, collecting groups of archaic homo sapiens and canidae that they took with them as they went back out to the stars on their curious errands. We know that the Ancients destroyed themselves in a cataclysmic war a short while after that.

And we know there's a crater in Australia, Wolf Creek Crater, an 875 meter wide crater formed a bit under 300,000 years ago by the impact of a meteor estimated at 50,000 tons. Coincidence? Or, an effort to take out a small Ancient base?

That was just Grandfather. According to other sources (like me that says Grandfather lied, alot), there were other Ancients in this Galaxy and they stopped by too.

Drats, I thought for sure that Mongoose killed Grandfather's access to this site. He is still editing my posts.



Dave Chase

 

[rancke]

Entirely speculative. Do with it as you will:

We know from canon that the Ancients visited Terra 300,000 years ago, collecting groups of archaic homo sapiens and canidae that they took with them as they went back out to the stars on their curious errands. We know that the Ancients destroyed themselves in a cataclysmic war a short while after that.

8000 years is not a short while.

And we know there's a crater in Australia, Wolf Creek Crater, an 875 meter wide crater formed a bit under 300,000 years ago by the impact of a meteor estimated at 50,000 tons. Coincidence? Or, an effort to take out a small Ancient base?

That's entirely plausible.


Hans

 

[BlackBat242]

Well, there are these black rectangular blocks scattered here and there... one in Africa, one on the moon, and a large one in orbit around Jupiter, with another possibly on a moon of Saturn (although these might be the same one).

:devil::devil:


And Dave... in my Traveller Universe, "Grandfather" is just an allegorical term used by the modern Droyne for the leadership of the previous "High Droyne" civilization... there is no such actual individual as Yaskoydray.

Further, the "High Droyne" civilization was just one of thousands of species and civilizations to gain star-travel and expand (or at least visit) across many systems over the eons.

Thus, there are many different types and ages of "Ancient" (or "Fore-runner", to use my preferred term) ruins and artifacts.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

TD#13 says Venus has confirmed Ancient sites, and rumours about Titan and Pluto.

 

[Carlobrand]

I'm sorry, what is TD#13?

 

[aramis]

I'm sorry, what is TD#13?

Traveller's Digest Magazine, Issue #13, by Digest Group Productions.

TD was originally a CT commercial fanzine, then a MT commercial fanzine. Excellent stuff, too.

 

[Qstor2]

I think there's some creatures on Pluto but *not* Ancients

Mike

 

[Whipsnade]

TD#13 says Venus has confirmed Ancient sites, and rumours about Titan and Pluto.

The IN has an exclusion zone out to one AU surrounding Pluto, IIRC, and, unless I'm conflating one canonical aside with another, there was something about a cache of black globes being found on the dwarf planet.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

The IN has an exclusion zone out to one AU surrounding Pluto, IIRC, and, unless I'm conflating one canonical aside with another, there was something about a cache of black globes being found on the dwarf planet.

"a stockpile of Ancient technologies" is the rumour.

 

[kafka47]

Pluto, IMTU, is where a worldship of the Sky Raiders misjumped into our system which lead to a near K-T event on Earth circa 2050. Luckily, most of Earth nations had a presence in orbit, Luna, Mars - so mankind survives but just. The analysis of near-C rock that impacted showed some strange technology. It is possible that a Chinese-American expedition to it when it was in the orbit of Saturn might have yielded some secrets. Or it could be the thruster plates that broke off when it precipitated in Pluto's orbit giving the whole new thrust toward developing gravatics. Have not decided yet. But, essentially think Rendezvous to Rama with more catastrophic effects for Earth.

 

[Carlobrand]

Pluto, IMTU, is where a worldship of the Sky Raiders misjumped into our system which lead to a near K-T event on Earth circa 2050. Luckily, most of Earth nations had a presence in orbit, Luna, Mars - so mankind survives but just. The analysis of near-C rock that impacted showed some strange technology. It is possible that a Chinese-American expedition to it when it was in the orbit of Saturn might have yielded some secrets. Or it could be the thruster plates that broke off when it precipitated in Pluto's orbit giving the whole new thrust toward developing gravatics. Have not decided yet. But, essentially think Rendezvous to Rama with more catastrophic effects for Earth.

The sky who did wha...???

 

[rancke]

The sky who did wha...???

The Sky Raiders. The belong to a completely different time and place, but since this is Kafka's TU he can do what he likes with it.


Hans

 

[kafka47]

Indeed, we will never know the catalyst that drove Terrans to the Stars...and if the answer is just time. That would be boring.

As according to canon, we ought to be at the level of having pan-Solar System civilization about now. Reconciling that with the shadow canon of environmental catastrophes and man-made ones is my challenge in the Near Earth milieu. Nearly, wiping out life on Earth seems like a good catalyst to develop Jump Drive...even if it is for just intra-Solar System travel - still faster than what is on offer.

 

[mike wightman]

How does enough of a technological society survive your cataclysm?

IMTU the Imperial era historians have got their dates out by a 100 years or so.

 

[kafka47]

How does enough of a technological society survive your cataclysm?

IMTU the Imperial era historians have got their dates out by a 100 years or so.

Taking a cue from Marc and 2001, as I said, we have become embedded in the Solar System. Efficient recycling systems, cold fusion, plastic replacing wood and other organics, food grown in hydroponics (& potentially people) are the order of the day - out there. Plus, scientists gave sufficient leeway for the impact. Crowding many people in slow arks to the Stars and also gathering as much of the DNA of Earth's species and shipping them to the offworld colonies. So much of the technology was developed in response with the idea of being self-sufficient.

Plus, there are the shelters that governments would have been tasked with building. So, lots of supply caches. And, the fact that it did not result in a K-T event, as the worldship substantially slowed by the time it reached lunar orbit but still crashed is a mystery that most Terrans would not be aware of. But, select members of Earth's elite might be.

 

[rancke]

IMTU the Imperial era historians have got their dates out by a 100 years or so.

I simply accept that the Traveller Universe is not identical to the Real Universe and that (not counting the Ancients and their shenanigans) it diverged from it around 1979. One major difference is that all the effort and ingenuity that went into computers in the RU went into space technology in the TU.

(I never could see the reason for updating the history of Twilight 2000 either).


Hans

 

[kafka47]

I simply accept that the Traveller Universe is not identical to the Real Universe and that (not counting the Ancients and their shenanigans) it diverged from it around 1979. One major difference is that all the effort and ingenuity that went into computers in the RU went into space technology in the TU.

(I never could see the reason for updating the history of Twilight 2000 either).


Hans

Because, I accept shadow cannon...my divergence actually occurs much earlier...

But, I think we are speaking of the same thing, as in 1967 HAL was the computer of Traveller. And, there is no reason to believe that the microcomputer revolution would be equally applied to spacecraft...as someone pointed out a computer to run a real world battleship (watercraft) is about the same size as a Traveller computer...it is just the sheer thrust of getting these components into orbit that presents the biggest problem. Unless, we accept that they were manufactured up there and then shipped down. Hence the development of crystalline memory, as opposed to silicon wafer.

 

[BlackBat242]

In ~1962, instead of relying on inefficient and expensive (but faster to develop and make) large missile-type one-use rockets to explore and utilize space (and reach the moon), President Kennedy accepts a slower "2-stage" approach.

The XB-70 is developed into a "space-plane launcher", similar to the B-52/X-15 pair, but being able to launch its low-orbit spaceplane from higher altitudes and faster speeds, thus enabling it to take the place of the Gemini & early Apollo space-capsules.

In-orbit assembly of pieces launched the "brute-force" way enables a permanent station to be built much sooner than historic (by the late 1960s).

Thus, an orbital "launch-base" station is in orbit by 1972, and the first Lunar landing takes place a year or two later... but with a larger lander that is able to take a proper survey team, as well as building materials.

Moonbase Prime is operating by 1976 (with a 2-man staff, but this will soon be expanded).

Back on earth a new generation of spaceplanes and launch aircraft are built, enabling the 1980 commencement of flights to orbit with 15-man complements, as well as cargo flights comparable to the rejected "Rockwell Space-Shuttle" rocket/plane combination... but with greater safety and reliability, as well as lower cost and much faster turn-around times between flights.

By 2000 there are several moon-bases, as well as a processing plant converting native lunar materials into structural components for the first manned Mars expedition vessel.



No, this is not a flight of fancy... this is what a mid-1980s look back by NASA scientists stated could have been done within the same budget (to that point)... if manned rockets had not been pushed from 1960 on as the fastest way to get to the moon.