Warp Drive for Traveller

[Laryssa]

What if an alien race developed a Warp Drive instead of a Jump Drive. This is not the Star Trek variety of Warp Drive. The initial warp envelope determines the eventual destination. The properties of the warp envelope include its speed, and its direction of travel. The analogy of a warp drive is that it is like a wave on the ocean, once created it sustains itself for a while without further input and then dissapates. A warp envelope lasts for about a week or until it hits a gravity well 100 diameters out which ever occurs first. Once a Starship is enveloped in a warp envelope either of its own creation or otherwise, it is stuck in their until the warp disappates or is distroyed by a collision with a gravity well.

like the Jump drive there are 6 standard varieties of warp and each warp engine can create a warp number equal to or less than its rating including fractions thereof. The standard warps are

Warp 1: delivers the starship 1 parsec in a week in a straight-line direction or at the boundary of any intervening gravity wells.

Warp 2: As warp 1 but the starship travels 2 parsecs in a weeks time.

Warp 3: As warp 1 but the starship travels 3 parsecs in a weeks time.

Warp 4: As warp 1 but the starship travels 4 parsecs in a weeks time.

Warp 5: As warp 1 but the starship travels 5 parsecs in a weeks time.

Warp 6: As warp 1 but the starship travels 6 parsecs in a weeks time.

In addition to these warps, there is a secret warp which can be used to travel back in time, but the warp calculations are devilishly difficult and have been know to take years to make with the most powerful computers. Generally this calculation is made by a massive mainframe on a planet's surface and the solution is stored on the ship's database. Most ships don't have this capacity but a few do. Warp drives are usually artifacts much like Black Globes, few people know how to make them, but they interface well with most starships.

 

[Border Reiver]

Hi Tom, a couple of questions.

1. The warp drive dissapates at 100 diameters. Will this not work within 100 diameters of a star? J-Drive is affected by the stellar gravitational envelope, is W-drive?

2. A ship travelling at that speed will be approaching physical objects in deep space faster than they can be detected. How will you navigate/pilot the vessel? Psionics is a thought or perhaps have a system where miniscule affects on the warp efficiency allows detection of mass and thus steer around. Or perhaps there is zero interaction with n-space (which really makes it j-drive)

3. Time Travel, mmmm. I have a love/hate relationship with the concept of time travel in Traveller buuuut....

How about avoiding the cliches of the usual time travel rubbish and put it to practical travel use. Ships arrive instantly (objectively) at their destinations whilst (subjectively) one week has passed. Could make things interesting.

 

[Laryssa]

Once you form the warp envelope your committed to your destination just as if you plotted your jump course. Once your in the warp envelope you can't change course, you can't see where your going either, its much like a jump drive. The main difference is you don't need to consume power to maintain the warp envelope as you would a jump bubble. The warp, once created continues in a straight line carrying your starship until it dissapates 1 week later or until a gravity well it encounters distroys it. If you plot a course for a point on the other side of a gravity well, the gravity well will stop your journey and pop your warp bubble before a week expires, in that way you can arrive somewhere in less than a week.

The physics of time travel is that the mathematics involved is very difficult, and its hard to get a single solution that will allow backwards time travel, but once you have it, you can cross the same distance back in time repeatedly. Most warp drive computers only have a few preprogrammed time travel destinations in them, and you can travel to previous eras just like physical destinations.

 

[jfetters]

But when in transit, is the vessel in normal space, or some kind of alternate space ala jumpspace?

The main reason for resolving that is that with travelling at speeds like that in normal space, coming in contact with something as small as a baseball can ruin your day...

 

[Border Reiver]

But if a Tom says, there is no interaction except on a gravitational level, all you need to worry about is all those masses that fill the empty depths. How much mass is needed to precipitate the vessel from its warp? Equal or greater than the mass of the vessel?

( I think we may have drifted into the mass precipitation argument for jumps again. Sorry Mr. Cameron)

 

[Laryssa]

Originally posted by Jim Fetters:
But when in transit, is the vessel in normal space, or some kind of alternate space ala jumpspace?

The main reason for resolving that is that with travelling at speeds like that in normal space, coming in contact with something as small as a baseball can ruin your day...

The warp ship enters a partial pocket universe, but with a negative energy connection to our own universe. In other words the warp drive bends space around the starship while maintaining a tiny wormhole to keep it attacked to the rest of the universe, it then contracts space in front of the outside of the wormhole opening and expands space behind the outside of the wormhole opening. The out pocket universe, which the starship is in, protects the starship from these spacial compressions and expansions that propel the outer wormhole opening faster than the speed of light. the reason why the warp bubble/out pocket decays is that as the wormhole opening speeds through normal space, it gets hit by normal matter and energy, this cancels the negative energy that props open the worm hole, and the outpocket shinks a little to compensate. Once the negative energy in the wormhole is reduced below a certain threshold the balance of forces causes the wormhole to open up, the outpocket to flatten up and join the rest of the universe once again. That is the technobabble explaination. I can't vouch for it 100%, but is sounds kind of cool anyway. Read an article in popular science about this sort of Warp drive.

To answer your question. An object would probably be crushed by the spacial compression in front of the warp drive and then disintegrated by the spacial expansion behind it. In reality the warp ship is not moving at all, so its really not traveling at any tremendous speed in relation to any interstellar object it may be passing. If the object is say, greater than 25 kg in mass and the warp drive comes within 100 diameters of it, the warp envelope will break down and expell the starship.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Border Reiver:
( I think we may have drifted into the mass precipitation argument for jumps again. Sorry Mr. Cameron)

BR,

No need to worry. Tom is specifically suggesting something that would occur in an alternate or personal Traveller setting. He is not suggesting that mass precipitation is required in the Official Traveller Universe. It's when folks suggest that mass precipitation is required in the OTU that I begin to foam at the mouth.

Tom's idea, like most of his ideas, is well worth further consideration. Consider this one statement: "... it is stuck in their until the warp disappates or is distroyed by a collision with a gravity well...". That very intriguing suggestion develops on further examinstion into a Traveller setting with much faster communication speeds. Faster FTL comms means different interstellar governments, different interstellar histories, different interstellar everythings really.

Consider the follwing; we have Polity A with jump6 and Polity B with warp6. Both polities require one week to communicate with a world 6 parsecs away. However...

- If the world is one parsec away, Polity B's message can arrive in one sixth of a week.
- Two parsecs, one third of a week.
- Three parsecs, one half of a week.
- Four parsecs, two thirds of a week.
- Five parsecs, five sixths of a week.

Apply the same to distances over 6 parsecs and the advantage grows even greater.

Apply the same to polities that have different warp capabilities and the advantage is equally striking. Polity A now has warp2 and Polity B has warp6.

- One parsec, A requires a half of a week, B requires a sixth of a week.
- Two parsecs, A requires a full week, B requires one third.

You can see how a polity with warp6 could/would run rings around a polity with it. Any polity with a smaller warp speed than its neighbors would be at a distinct disadvantage.

Using Tom's suggestion, a GM could devise a very intriguing and very different Traveller setting.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Eduardo]

There are those intriguing 'relativity' weapons at the higher tech levels in MT to think on, as well, and the relativity pistol on the Knightfall book and the rules for it bring up the possibility of varying times in 'jump space' relative to 'rea' time as well. a 'relativity' field around the hull, anyone? ... 1 second in 'jump space' equals 100 seconds of 'real time', so 1 week in jump is 1/100 of a week in 'real time' reference, maybe? ...

Would this also reduce the acceleration of a gravity well to nothing? Time has a lot to do with physics and forces, eh? I better dig out my old physics book and look at that equation again; it could just as easily increase it drastically the other way, for all I know at the moment

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Laryssa:
...That is the technobabble explaination. I can't vouch for it 100%, but is sounds kind of cool anyway.

YEah, hey don't let technobabble stop you if it is cool.

To answer your question. An object would probably be crushed by the spacial compression in front of the warp drive and then disintegrated by the spacial expansion behind it. In reality the warp ship is not moving at all, so its really not traveling at any tremendous speed in relation to any interstellar object it may be passing. If the object is say, greater than 25 kg in mass and the warp drive comes within 100 diameters of it, the warp envelope will break down and expell the starship.

Gotcha, that is where I figured you were going with that - I just wanted to make sure.

So that leads another question - say something DOES break the warp 'bubble' before the ship arrives at its destination. Does the ship expend all of its "jump fuel" in creating the bubble initially, or is there a constant need to feed it through the journey?

 

[Laryssa]

Once the warp drive is established it requires no more inputs from the ship and can in fact receive no more inputs from the ship. Because of the singularities involved there can be no communication between the outer warp bubble and the ship. The ship is essentially trapped for the duration of the journey until the warp bubble expires or is destroyed from outside. That means all the energy is released at once to create the warp bubble. If the warp bubble is collapsed prematurely, the energy used to create the bubble is gone in a splash of electromagnetic and gravitational energy that presages the dumping of the warp bubble's contents into normal space. Warp ships don't arrive quietly.

 

[Ran Targas]

^ Like in Star Trek, you could explain the increase in performance (J-2, J-3, J-4, etc.) by creating multiple layers of warp bubbles. This would also explain the increase in drive mass. Thusly, a J-1 drive makes one bubble. A J-2 drive makes two bubbles, one nested inside the other. A J-6 make six bubbles.

Ship's fuel would be expended to maintain the bubbles during the jump. Unfortunately, due to several techno-babble factors, a normal civilian drive can only maintain a warp bubble for a week or (as IMTU) 150+/- hours. Jumps must be completed before the time runs out (IMTU, they are not limited by distance traveled but by time) or you are left high and dry. Maybe like in 2300, the warp coils begin to break down or some exotic (and highly dangerous) particle begins to build up; whatever floats your boat.

Warping in the vicinity (within 100d) of a planet or star is exceptionally difficult because the drive is trying to overcome the nearby gravity well.

Just another random thought; couldn't warp drives be a natural extension of anti-grav technology? Focused gravity fields, right? Perhaps an alien race never could master the jump drive but advanced gravity tech to the point of warp drives.

What about if the warp drive is able to utilize energy from the expanded field behind the craft (energy from the universe trying to squeeze space back into its original shape) to reduce the energy needed to compress the space in front of the craft? Like a big tiddly-wink, I guess. That way, only a relatively small amount of energy (say that from fusing several hundred tons of Hydrogen) is needed to create the bubble initially and maintain it during travel.

I think its a great idea to have atleast one more type of FTL drive in Traveller, if nothing more than to explore other possibilities.

 

[Plankowner]

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket here, but other than the shorter travel times for shorter trips using high warp numbers, how is your system that different from the Jump Drive, in game terms?

Your Warp Drive still uses the 1 week per parsec. You still use all your fuel per warp. Your ship is totally isolated from the rest of the universe during travel. Players cannot change the warp path once it is initiated.

Sure, you might be trying for game balance so that someone with Warp Drive can't totally smack someone with Jump Drive, but what are the real game differences.

IMTU, I allow 1 week for the maximum jump rating and fractions of that week for shorter jumps. I think that is actually a fairly common IMTU kind of tweak. Mass Precipitation is another common IMTU kind of thing (NOT OTU Bill, so calm down )

Why not try to make your Warp Drive really different. Allow ships to change course during Warp. Allow them to use Sensors during Warp (spying kind of thing). Think about how your Warp Drive an be DIFFERENT than the Jump Drive, not just the balance things. I should be able to offer several benefits AND disadvantages over the Jump Drive. Make it a trade off.

Just my thoughts, really, I like the idea, honest.

 

[Ran Targas]

^ I agree; if your gonna make it different, make it different.

If I had my druthers, warp drive would allow for controlled trajectories instead of straight lines. IMTU a good nav can plot curved jumps using known grav wells; but once they engage the drive, it's a rollercoaster ride. And I too partake of the "1 parsec = 25 hours at J-6" heresy.

Warp drive would also allow you to utilize specialized ship's sensors while traveling at FTL. The trade off is you can also be detected while using warp drive. This also makes warp ships susceptible to gravity influence mines or other static defenses; making assaults of prepared targets dangerous (jump drive allows you to by pass a lot of interim space).

Making warp drives even less advantageous, I wouldn't allow weapons fire through a warp field; trying to compensate for the gravity lensing would be a daunting task for even a super computer. That doesn't mean a warp ship can't eject self guiding munitions through their warp field though, leaving room for torpedoes or mines.

As I said, I think the idea has merit if tied to a specific time period and species. Maybe an ancient technology lost to time. Maybe they have fallen out of favor because warp drives are more delicate than Lanthanum grids and require a prohibitive amount of maintenance. Still, it's another method that could solve somebody's FTL problem.

 

[Plankowner]

Ran, using your idea that matter might be able to get through the warp Field, ships would be equipped with Torpedoes (FTL Missiles) in addition to the normal Traveller ordinance. Perhaps the ability to penetrate the Warp Field with a Torpedo is a Higher TL thing. At the earliest TL, no contact, as TL increases, first you get sensors, then torpedoes. Same could work for the navigation thing. Until you get Warp Sensors, you cannot change course.

I wouldn't use the 100D limit, I would use something else, like Gravity Gradient. Maybe it cannot be used within a few dozen AU of a star, making long norm-space trips to and from the edge of the Gravity well standard, creating more opportunities for encounters.

All of these things might make the Warp Drive inferior to the Jump Drive for most applications (commercial) but more common in military applications where having control of your ship all the time is more desireable.

So Laryssa, what was your intended use or impact for this alternate drive system?

 

[Straybow]

I think the compression/expansion fore and aft would put a crimp on any physical munitions passing through the warp bubble.

 

[Ran Targas]

Originally posted by Straybow:
I think the compression/expansion fore and aft would put a crimp on any physical munitions passing through the warp bubble.

Hmmm, didn't think of that, but it makes sense. Unless the ejected mechanism had it's own warp bubble, it probably wouldn't survive the shearing effect. This may make it prohibitively large or expensive to just toss away. Another reason for a lack of appeal to those commited to advancing jump technology.

Originally posted by Plankowner:
I wouldn't use the 100D limit, I would use something else, like Gravity Gradient.

I just picked a range that was easy to conceptualize; I see advanced TL's being able to achieve warp fields closer and closer to a gravity well as gravitics, power, and computer systems gain in ability to compensate. But I still wouldn't accept a BoP warping out of a cloud bank, a la ST IV, at any TL.

 

[Laryssa]

If you want a more controllable warp drive, how about this.

What if Warp drive technology was an outgrowth of black Globe technology?

In order to initiate a warp, you must first form a black globe around the ship. If you just want a black globe you stop there, but a Warp envelope is a specific kind of black globe that compresses space in front of it and expands space behind it.

So far so good, with the black globe on you can do what I said previously. Now however you can turn the warp envelope for variable lengths of time. You still can't shut them down while in one, but you can set one up so it decays after 1 second for instance, and you can flicker them on and off, perhaps making a course correction when the warp envelope is off. When you flicker the warp, you don't go as fast of course, but that's the trade off, you do have more control however. You go FTL when the Warp is on, but you are STL when its off, to get the travel time, you average the FTL and STL velocities together.

You can also see when the warp is off, when its on your cut off from the rest of the universe for a preset amount of time.

 

[Laryssa]

Originally posted by Ran Targas:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Straybow:
I think the compression/expansion fore and aft would put a crimp on any physical munitions passing through the warp bubble.

Hmmm, didn't think of that, but it makes sense. Unless the ejected mechanism had it's own warp bubble, it probably wouldn't survive the shearing effect. This may make it prohibitively large or expensive to just toss away. Another reason for a lack of appeal to those commited to advancing jump technology.

Originally posted by Plankowner:
I wouldn't use the 100D limit, I would use something else, like Gravity Gradient.

I just picked a range that was easy to conceptualize; I see advanced TL's being able to achieve warp fields closer and closer to a gravity well as gravitics, power, and computer systems gain in ability to compensate. But I still wouldn't accept a BoP warping out of a cloud bank, a la ST IV, at any TL. </font>[/QUOTE]Warp drive combat is sort of challenging ebven if you do have the flicker factor. If you going to have a dog fight between warp ships, you have to time your flicker to match your opponents. While the Warp is on, you can only FTL in straight lines. You change course when not in warp. By observing the warp signature, you can determine when the warp is going to flicker off and where, but you still must have a faster warp to catch up, also you still see these warp signatures with "slow light", there are no FTL sensors.

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Laryssa:
If you want a more controllable warp drive, how about this.

What if Warp drive technology was an outgrowth of black Globe technology?

In order to initiate a warp, you must first form a black globe around the ship. If you just want a black globe you stop there, but a Warp envelope is a specific kind of black globe that compresses space in front of it and expands space behind it.

So far so good, with the black globe on you can do what I said previously. Now however you can turn the warp envelope for variable lengths of time. You still can't shut them down while in one, but you can set one up so it decays after 1 second for instance, and you can flicker them on and off, perhaps making a course correction when the warp envelope is off. When you flicker the warp, you don't go as fast of course, but that's the trade off, you do have more control however. You go FTL when the Warp is on, but you are STL when its off, to get the travel time, you average the FTL and STL velocities together.

You can also see when the warp is off, when its on your cut off from the rest of the universe for a preset amount of time.

That makes it very similar to 2300's Stutterwarp, at least as far as I remember it. It's just changing the underlying technology of how it works, but the visible behavior is pretty similar.

I am guessing this would also change the original feul assumptions, or would it? Would this only take fractional feul amounts for each "flicker"?

 

[Laryssa]

Pretty much Higher warp numbers require higher energy. Longer lasting warp bubbles also require higher energy to initiate, but flickering the warp drive introduces addtional wear and tear, and the warp drive might not last as long if you flicker it often. Remember if one warp bubble will get you to your destination, then either the warp drive works that one time to initiate the bubble or it does not. If someone planted a bomb in the warp drive and blew it up while the ship was in the warp bubble, it would not matter, they warp bubble would still carry you to your destination when the bubble expired. if you flicker your warp drive and something goes wrong however, you could be stuck between the stars.

You can use the warp drive two different ways, you can generate the warp bubble once and wait it out blind, never knowing whether you've reached your destination until the bubble expires or pops, or you can flicker it and see where your going, change course, but then of course your risk a warp breakdown leaving you stranded. A flicker warp requires the the warp drive work for the entire length of the journey. a constant warp bubble only requires that the warp drive work to start you off on your journey. Hopefully your destination will have a place to fix the warp drive.