Vilani Language, Grammar and Lexicon

[robject]

Maybe we can use this as the clearinghouse for language matters Vilanific.

For your enjoyment, I have exported the Vilani grammar into PDF.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Works for me! Although I'm currently neck-deep in enhancing the Archaic Vilani (AV) sound change ruleset; and when I get it done, I think it probably should go over in the Etymology category I created yesterday, so they can all be in one place.

I also have plans for Chekaal, Kaalan, and Old Dirmani sometime down the road, as well as "Gashikani," a cousin-language/dialect of Standard Vilani based on a separate evolution from OHV, with some retained AV elements. In fact, creating Gashikani was the whole reason I dove into this project in the first place!

 

[robject]

Thank you for working on the sound change rules. I appreciate it.

Speaking of things Gashikani; there are large dialect areas within the Imperium itself, a sector or larger in size. Sort of the same sense of Anglic dialects/accents.

 

[sayatmenace]

I suppose this is thread necromancy, but I'm shocked (in the best possible way) to see conlang necromancy has happened! Was it really ten years ago we ginned up Vilani on the old TravLang mailing list? And where were you guys then???

I haven't touched Vilani for years and years, but have occasionally thought about it -- mostly, wanting to scrap it and start over from a clean slate. I was always unhappy about the failure to incorporate tones, and extremely unhappy about the vocabulary building process -- too many people going hog-wild with the random generators, and I didn't have the heart/guts to say NO, NO, please stop!

It is SO cool that you've picked up the pieces and made something of it. My apologies for the condition of those pieces -- not my best work, to say the least. But what you've done with it is interesting and exciting and I hope, in the intervening ~9 months since the last post, you're still tinkering with this!

K.

 

[robject]

You'll notice I've used your Vilani name (Keniirak Buuke) instead of your TML user name.

I suppose this is thread necromancy, but I'm shocked (in the best possible way) to see conlang necromancy has happened! Was it really ten years ago we ginned up Vilani on the old TravLang mailing list? And where were you guys then???

I was there, though ten years ago your posts on the TML boggled me. It took years of casual rereading before I had an inkling. Still that way too: spout out something about language change and I'll give you a blank stare. I finally own that book by Theodora Bynon and it's a fun read, but I can't say I understand half of it.

Hi Kenji, it's me, Rob Eaglestone. I emailed you about Vilani a few years ago. We had three or four exchanges. That's when I picked up your posts and cobbled it together.

It is SO cool that you've picked up the pieces and made something of it. My apologies for the condition of those pieces -- not my best work, to say the least. But what you've done with it is interesting and exciting and I hope, in the intervening ~9 months since the last post, you're still tinkering with this!

As you can see, it's about the same as you left it... well I did some re-sifting, but then so had you back in 1999. G. Kashkanun Anderson knows his stuff about language, perhaps as well as you -- at least he knows the lingo.

So I'm totally jazzed that both of you are here... maybe we can package this thing up properly and stamp it 1.0.

Because at this point, that's my goal.

Standard Vilani, version 1.0

Oh yeah baby, if we can get there, I'd be SO happy. Egad!

 

[Supplement Four]

Good work, Rob. I know Vilani is your "thing".

Maybe Mongoose should put you to work!

 

[robject]

Standard Vilani 1.0

Call For Changes

Vilani is difficult to learn; therefore, if there are significant "errors" in the current grammar, we can fix it. Sayatmenace, if there's something you missed, or GK Anderson, if there's something you've found that's obviously wrong, NOW's the time to talk about it and fix it. I am Marc's keeper of the Vilani lexicon and grammar; grammar changes are canonical.

So then, any thoughts?

Good work, Rob. I know Vilani is your "thing".

Maybe Mongoose should put you to work!

Thanks! Actually I'm busy enough working with (not "for" exactly) FFE.

Sayatmenace developed Vilani on the TML back in 1998-9, nearly singlehandedly.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

I suppose this is thread necromancy, but I'm shocked (in the best possible way) to see conlang necromancy has happened! Was it really ten years ago we ginned up Vilani on the old TravLang mailing list? And where were you guys then???

I haven't touched Vilani for years and years, but have occasionally thought about it -- mostly, wanting to scrap it and start over from a clean slate. I was always unhappy about the failure to incorporate tones ...

Admittedly, that is the most flummoxing part of this language. Do we even know what the purpose of the tonality is yet? What is it supposed to reflect? Semantics? Mood? Case structure? Social status/direction?

At the moment, I'm just kludging it to a minimalist state -- my riff is that strict tonality is an Old High Vilani trait; all but the most puritanical dialects of the language have "flattened" considerably ... most likely due to influence from their dominant Anglic-speaking neighbors.

That's not canon, of course; but I'd dearly love for someone to explain to me exactly what all the sing-songiness is supposed to accomplish!

... and extremely unhappy about the vocabulary building process -- too many people going hog-wild with the random generators, and I didn't have the heart/guts to say NO, NO, please stop!

Then you'll be happy to know that lately that hasn't been the case. I at least rarely go that route when I construct Vilani words; the vast majority are true compounds, constructed according to the rules as they are laid out. Only on the rare occasion where I think a word should be common enough to be a root concept will I go to the word generators for inspiration.

I also built some Sound Change files that help build appropriate Standard Vilani words. The simplest one is just etymology candy -- it cranks out OHV vocabulary from the Standard Vilani originals. There's another one I use to reflect Interstellar Wars/Rule of Man influence on the language; it builds Standard Vilani terms out of "borrowed" Old Anglic words.*

The third one is my current workhorse. It takes any compoundable Standard Vilani words (typically a verb/adjective + a noun), walks them back to their Old High Vilani ancestors, compounds them there, and then inflicts Sound Change rules on them as a unit. I'm still finding and ironing out random kinks that show up in it; but for the most part I'm satisfied with its output.

I'd LIKE to be able to walk back the language at least as far as Archaic Vilani, as well as the Chekaal and Old Dirmani ancestors/borrowings. But then again, I also need to build that Gashikani generator, too ... and just today I had a light bulb go off about building modern Vilani personal names out of Old Dirmani compounds ... o:

*And actually, it should work with just about any Indo-European language, so long as the word is spelled out in phonetic English first.

It is SO cool that you've picked up the pieces and made something of it. My apologies for the condition of those pieces -- not my best work, to say the least.

Well, it's no Loglan ... but then again, what human language is, once you give real people enough of a chance to bend and mutilate it? If the Vilani language has its confusing and incoherent parts, isn't that largely a reflection of the Vilani themselves? If these were Vulcans (or Geonee, maybe?) that we were talking about, then maybe the language should be redesigned to explicitly make sense from head to toe. But as it presents itself right now, I am satisfied with the root stock of the language as it stands.

 

[aramis]

Tonality can be, as in enlish, a case and stress indicator. Tonality in english is ONLY added information except int the interogative mode, where tonality is end-rising. Stress use is incidental, but is often missing in synthesized speach, especially when volume is used but pitch doesn't vary to match.

In mandarin, tonality essentially differentiates homonyms.

In canonical vilani, we have 6 tones, and each syllable has one of the 6 indicated by a subcript in english transliteration. (Note that that's from one article. All the transliterations show the tones as subscripts.)

Most tonal languages indicate 3 pitches... High, neutral, low.

So, how do we fit these? into 6?
Here's an idea
1: neutral
2: low
3: high
4: High- down
5: Low- up.
6: Shrill

Now the next question: Frequency? (I arranged my suggestions in inverse to expected frequency.)

Also note: given the above schema a3a1 and a3a2 would elide to a4 and a2a1 and a2a3 would elide to a5...

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

As you can see, it's about the same as you left it... well I did some re-sifting, but then so had you back in 1999. G. Kashkanun Anderson knows his stuff about language, perhaps as well as you -- at least he knows the lingo.

Well, I only had a couple of outright linguistics classes back in the day. But one of my two chosen courses of study found me wading hip deep in Middle English literature in order to get my degree ... and you're going wind up soaking up a thing or two about comparative etymology once you wash up on the beach from that excursion.

Call For Changes

Vilani is difficult to learn; therefore, if there are significant "errors" in the current grammar, we can fix it. Sayatmenace, if there's something you missed, or GK Anderson, if there's something you've found that's obviously wrong, NOW's the time to talk about it and fix it. I am Marc's keeper of the Vilani lexicon and grammar; grammar changes are canonical.

So then, any thoughts?

Alright ... so what's the cutoff date for the Beta, then?

I don't know that I know enough about the interaction between human neurology and grammar to spot anything intrinsically wrong with Vilani as it sits at the moment.

But there are a couple of cases and/or moods that I think should be added to the language in some way. I think a Cohortative Mood is an appropriate addition to Vilani grammar -- at least it certainly seems to fit in with their psyche! You might remember this old post I did which presents a possible method of building it out of the current rules.

It'd also be nice if Vilani were able to issue quick commands in urgent situations (a true Imperative Case), such as military engagements, emergencies, or the like. Currently, I don't think there's any way to do it, except for that "bare stem" verb construct which simultaneously implies that the speaker is either high above the addressee socially, or just thinks that he is an idiot.

Native Vilani speakers might be able to make a situational assessment on a case-by-case basis; but that's not spelled out in the grammar at the moment. Perhaps this is a candidate for tonal discretions?

There are other cases, moods, or what-have-you that a Vilani grammar primer might benefit from spelling out (Vocative Case, anyone?); but I think I'll see what sayatmenace has to say about such a thing first.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Actually, Aramis, I think the problem isn't that we don't know how to do the tones (there is a basic description of them in the grammar); but that there is no explanation of exactly what these tones are intended to convey.

It's like the algebra is there ... but nobody ever bothered to find any numbers to plug them in to!

Although, I admit, I haven't bothered to go to the Traveller Drawer and dig up my old V&V book, on the off chance that they covered it. Consider it a combination of laziness and not-sure-if-it's-even-worth-doing-'cause-it-might-not-even-be-canonical-ness.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

And, finally (for the night, anyway), here's an example of my OHV-to-SV Compound Word Generator at work. The following words are all compounds based on some form of the Standard Vilani words for "fly" ("dale," "lash") and water.

They aren't necessarily intended as additions to the lexicon ... more as an example of what the SC file does with different inputs. This doesn't mean that some of them couldn't merit their own definitions, of course.

dale+kharshi ("fly/hover" + "hot water") udrekharnu
lash+kharshi ("fly" + "hot water") lashkharnu
dale+luusha ("fly/hover" + "cold water") derluusha
lash+luusha ("fly" + "cold water") lashluusha
dale+aa ("fly/hover" + "elemental water") udre
lash+aa ("fly" + "elemental water") lashaa
dale+mugesh ("fly/hover" + "salt water") udremungem
lash+mugesh ("fly" + "salt water") lashumangem
dale+para ("fly/hover" + "river/flowing") udrepaale
lash+para ("fly" + "river/flowing") lashbaale

 

[aramis]

I think they simply separate homonyms.
a1 isnt' the same as a2; they are two separate vowels.

 

[robject]

The grammar document explains the pitch-accents this way:

Phase, trajectory, and tense can be encoded into a tone-accent pattern imposed on the entire inflected verb. The pattern determines the sense conveyed:

[table with six pitch-accent patterns clipped because I don't have time to format plaintext]

In actuality, the tonal variation of spoken Vilani can be much more subtle than this, with a contrastingly high tone magnifying the effect; thus a relatively high tone on the right syllables can in some contexts communicate the concept of generational time.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Ah, dang ... of course I should have looked there; but I merely checked the HTML document on your own site, and unfortunately assumed that it was identical to the PDF document.

It's my severe allergy to PDF documents rearing it's ugly head again, I'm afraid ... :file_22:

 

[robject]

No worries, it's in HTML as well, but not pretty HTML.

I cooked that up because it's much much much easier to deal with than tones. I had nightmares about having to paw through several thousand words, devising tonal orthography for every entry *shudder*... not to mention that I would sooner DIE than have to learn to speak Vilani in tones a la Chinese. Yu Yu' Yheu Yuh! No way Jose'!

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Alright, so I found the tones for nouns too. Don't know how I ever missed that before ... o:

Have I missed anything? Are there any other word classes that have tonal encoding -- or is it just nouns and verbs?

Also, am I correct in interpreting this to mean that currently the tonal encoding is in addition to the physical appendages to the words? That is, the tones apply on top of the relevant affixes? Or is it possible that spoken Vilani (even if only occasionally) dispenses with some of the more exotic affixes when the tone for it is already present?

 

[robject]

Also, am I correct in interpreting this to mean that currently the tonal encoding is in addition to the physical appendages to the words? That is, the tones apply on top of the relevant affixes? Or is it possible that spoken Vilani (even if only occasionally) dispenses with some of the more exotic affixes when the tone for it is already present?

I suspect some Vilani offices may go overboard and apply pitch accent on top of affixed words, but I suspect it's typically a replacement mechanism used in formal language, where you drop the affixes in favor of pitch (and vice versa) where convenient to make a line scan better.

Also, since pitch-accents can also be substituted with four traditional tones (approximately those used by Big Ben) I can see a tonal-pitch version used with Vilanic Chanting.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

I suspect some Vilani offices may go overboard and apply pitch accent on top of affixed words, but I suspect it's typically a replacement mechanism used in formal language, where you drop the affixes in favor of pitch (and vice versa) where convenient to make a line scan better.

It's interesting that they can coexist like that -- although it's very Vilani, too. Perhaps Archaic Vilani was a mixed language: a true hybridization of a Late Khalaan dialect (or perhaps Chekaal) with another language from outside the Old Dirmani family tree? One set of New Lords (proto-Vilani tribes sweeping in from the dik-swept steppes of the Vlandish outback) becomes the ruling minority over the older civilization. Some outside vocabulary and grammar is added; but the earlier group is still prestigious (and numerous) enough that much of the older language and culture is preserved.

And then it gets codified by the Old High Vilani grammarians before it's allowed to fade away. From the way I look at that language tree you created, I also see Old Dirmani retaining enough of a caché about it that new words are continually brought into Archaic/Old High Vilani from the older tongue, much in the same way that modern Indo-European languages raid Latin on a periodic basis.

But going back to the modern usage: It might be possible, as well, that pitch and affixes are used together extensively (if not universally) in upward register speech. But then written Vilani, on the other hand, could still be solely affix-oriented, I would imagine? So native speakers would be able to instinctively differentiate between conversational Vilani and one which was intended only for literal consumption; perhaps there are even entire categories of words that are never really intended to be spoken aloud ... :devil:

On the other hand, tone structure could be encoded through a single additional character or mark at the start of a word. After all, there are only six of them, and to the best of my knowledge they never overlap; it would be pretty easy for me to drum some up.

If that were to become the case, though, I think such encodings should only be reserved for speeches, sayings, conversations, etc ... sort of like quotation marks, but with a few more layers of meaning attached. And knowing the Vilani, they would probably regard attempts to use the conversational markers outside of their intended context as bardumuuraa saaderka.

Also, since pitch-accents can also be substituted with four traditional tones (approximately those used by Big Ben) I can see a tonal-pitch version used with Vilanic Chanting.

I like it! I could see something like "Vilani Chant Opera" rising out of that, too. I think we just invented a whole new thing that Solomani guests just "have to see" whenever they get talked into taking a trip down to ol' Vland.

Mmmm ... a traditional home-fermented Vilani meal, followed by a trip to the local Palace of Culture for a three hour long chanted retelling of Eneri Battles the Pink Robots, finished off by a late-night trip to the local Bistro for traditional Vilani appetizers (extra aged!) and a couple of pitchers of Old Vilani off the tap to close off the night.

 

[robject]

It's interesting that they can coexist like that -- although it's very Vilani, too. Perhaps Archaic Vilani was a mixed language: a true hybridization of a Late Khalaan dialect (or perhaps Chekaal) with another language from outside the Old Dirmani family tree? One set of New Lords (proto-Vilani tribes sweeping in from the dik-swept steppes of the Vlandish outback) becomes the ruling minority over the older civilization. Some outside vocabulary and grammar is added; but the earlier group is still prestigious (and numerous) enough that much of the older language and culture is preserved.

[etc]

I like all of this.

But going back to the modern usage: It might be possible, as well, that pitch and affixes are used together extensively (if not universally) in upward register speech.

Yes. My thought was that when I speak to my grandfather, my speech needs to please his ears, and so I use tones or pitches in lieu of affixes.

On the other hand, tone structure could be encoded through a single additional character or mark at the start of a word. After all, there are only six of them, and to the best of my knowledge they never overlap; it would be pretty easy for me to drum some up.

I like using accents better: e'ne.ri, or e.ne'ri, or just ene'ri. It's also pretty standard fare in fantasy novels to throw apostrophes around like they're going out of style, so fantasy readers are used to seeing them. Oh look, Elvish!

I like it! I could see something like "Vilani Chant Opera" rising out of that, too. I think we just invented a whole new thing that Solomani guests just "have to see" whenever they get talked into taking a trip down to ol' Vland.

Back in 2004, I was singing one of the example lines from the Vilani grammar on the way to work to get a feel for it. The one with "isshugina ka ruu" in it... talking about that roving pronoun RUU. Of course it felt like Gregorian Chant.