Vilani Cuisine 201

[Magnus von Thornwood]

I have been putting a lot of thought into the Vilani and something occurred to me....

15% of most animal (and yes that includes us, humaniti) on Terra here are immune or merely carriers to multiple things, like diseases and foods.

It turns out (love my PBS and Nova) that Humans at one time could not drink cow milk...funny that would make all the lactose intolerants throw backs, sorry, anyway, as I was saying, till the Genetic Mutation that allowed some portion of the population to consume and use the new food spread through breeding most people merely got sick and perhaps died.

So what the point, I think I figured out how new foods were discovered on Vland, basically if Eneri can get bit by Vlandish mosquitoes then he can eat some of the local flora and fauna, right? So first he's inducted into the Shugilii Class and learns all the local cuisine and then perhaps on a dare or out of curiosity tries something new and doesn't die. Maybe he gets sick, but he doesn't die. After he marries, since he has this great job now, his kids should inherit his genetic mutation. Right?

So after awhile, a real long while a good chunk of the Vilani should be able to process the alien flora and fauna into useful food merely by consuming it, and with less prep...

Of course this means that the ancient Vilani cooking must have been super processed before consumption back in the day, but these days shouldn't be as bad as the stuff great-great-great-great grandpa had to eat.

And before I get a rash of "you don't know crap" posts following this, think about this, if the Ancient Droyne weren't making the Humans food, then they had to have taught them how to prep food to eat, or some of the Vilani Mutants must have existed and survived on local grub stakes after the Great War....otherwise the whole species would have died of starvation.

The modern Vilani only exist because a genetic mutation let some folks not die when they ate the local food stuffs.

Comments, I mean besides you don't know what you are talking about Prof.
mega:

 

[sabredog]

Brilliant analysis.

Of course it had to work out that way; just think of all the foods we have here on Earth that are deadly toxic unless prepared in some fashion first. Natural foods, too, like cassava root. how many poor, desperately hungry guys died until the right combination of soaking time, cooking and all was figured out to leach out the cyanide make it edible without destroying the nutritious enzymes it has? A lot of naturally growing foods, and even some animals, are like that.

And think of all the local foods that are hard for outsiders to eat without bad digestive effects. Some people never get used to it, but those who have eaten them for generations have passed on all sorts of immunitites in the form of specialized intestinal flora. People often forget that without the locally specific e. coli a lot of food wouldn't be digestible at all.

Now just imagine the same sorts of processes going on in the evolution of Viliani and how that effected the development of thier diets.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

*blushes a bit*

Brilllant, maybe, but mostly the pressures of publish or perish. It's what they pay me for, well that and messing with some hinky stuff in the Basement Archives...

Thank you and by the way what is cassava root? Some Terran flora I gathered but how is it used?
mega:

 

[sabredog]

Its a highly starchy staple in South America and Africa. Tapioca is made from it, as is a flour that, while not super nutritious is all that can be grown in decent quantities in some parts of the Third World because its fairly undemanding.

There are two types of cassava. Bitter cassava has a high level of cyanide, and it must be grated and soaked or left out in the sun to allow the cyanide to disperse before it can be eaten. Once treated, the cassava root can be ground into flour, kept whole in flakes for various dishes, or processed to extract tapioca. “Sweet” cassava has lower levels of cyanide, and it can be peeled and used like a conventional root vegetable after it is heavily rinsed. Soaking isn't needed.

Just think of how many volunteers it took to figure all that out.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Ahhh...

Now I know why I hate tapioca! My body just knows it's bad for me.

I am supposing quite a few, like thousands...perhaps over time millions.
mega:

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

"You don't know what you're ...!" What? Oh, never mind.

It turns out (love my PBS and Nova) that Humans at one time could not drink cow milk...funny that would make all the lactose intolerants throw backs, sorry, anyway, as I was saying, till the Genetic Mutation that allowed some portion of the population to consume and use the new food spread through breeding most people merely got sick and perhaps died.

Actually, the mutation that allows some Solomani to digest cow milk evolved twice, a few thousand years apart from each other, and in two separate locations. The first time was in Stone Age Sweden (where 90% of the population currently possesses the mutation), and where milk-drinking obviously provided a survival bonus during those long Scandinavian winters. There is, in fact, evidence of a neolithic population explosion in the area that might be related to this development.

Even as late as the Classical Era, severe lactose intolerance was so common among the vast bulk of Europeans that cow's milk was described as an effective purgative in Roman medical texts.

The second time the mutation occurred was a couple of thousand years ago, in the cattle-herding cultures of the Horn of Africa. It's not the exact same mutation, mind you, but the results are essentially the same. Still, though: let's give it up for Parallel Evolution ... wooot!

So what the point, I think I figured out how new foods were discovered on Vland, basically if Eneri can get bit by Vlandish mosquitoes then he can eat some of the local flora and fauna, right? So first he's inducted into the Shugilii Class and learns all the local cuisine and then perhaps on a dare or out of curiosity tries something new and doesn't die. Maybe he gets sick, but he doesn't die. After he marries, since he has this great job now, his kids should inherit his genetic mutation. Right?

So after awhile, a real long while a good chunk of the Vilani should be able to process the alien flora and fauna into useful food merely by consuming it, and with less prep...

Sure, it's possible. You'd think that something would have had to give after 300,000 years. I feel the need to point out that, canonically, Vlandish mosquitoes apparently never developed a taste for Vilani blood.

Lucky bastards. I've been to parts of Terra where the mosquitoes have been known to carry off small children.

Of course this means that the ancient Vilani cooking must have been super processed before consumption back in the day, but these days shouldn't be as bad as the stuff great-great-great-great grandpa had to eat.

What!! Are you saying the Vilani culture is subject to change?! Burn him! Burn the heretic! BURN HIM!! :devil:

If it was good enough for great-great-great-great grandpa, then it's no more, nor less, than exactly what we deserve too. And I'm sure great-great-great-great grandpa would have said the exact same thing about the dinner plans of great-great-great-great great-great-great-great grandpa, too.

And before I get a rash of "you don't know crap" posts following this, think about this, if the Ancient Droyne weren't making the Humans food, then they had to have taught them how to prep food to eat, or some of the Vilani Mutants must have existed and survived on local grub stakes after the Great War....otherwise the whole species would have died of starvation.

I forget exactly where, but I'm pretty sure that the Ancient Droyne did teach the proto-Vilani the original Shugilii techniques. They also provided a few genetically manipulated plants that are marginally digestible to humans.

You're right, though. Three hundred thousand years is a heckuva long time to sit around in an environment without adapting at least a little to the sugars and proteins immediately available to you.

The modern Vilani only exist because a genetic mutation let some folks not die when they ate the local food stuffs.

Presumably the extraordinarily long lifespan of pure-blooded Vilani is an example of environmental adaptation of some sort.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Would ROFLMAO, but that is undignified.....

Stilll...:rofl:

*gets up* Ummm, yes something like that is indeed what I was thinking.

Thank you for the Information on Terran milk mutations..most informative.

Complete and totally wooots for Parallel Evolution.

As for the Droyne and Shugilii connection, well it's hard to find the information the AAB's Library is vast and at times impenetrable....I suppose that's why we all need Historians though.

Heretic, really sir, I happen to know for a fact Vilani Culture changes....just very ssssllloooowwwllyyy.
mega:

 

[BlackBat242]

Add the fact that, unless there was continual genetic tinkering with the Vilani, 300,000 years of genetic drift would prevent the canon "Vilani-Solomani interfertility without medical assistance" thing!

That is way back 3 or 4 distinct types of proto-humans ago.

Scientists still argue whether Neandertals and Cro-Magnons, with only some 50,000 years or so of separation on the same world, could successfully interbreed.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Add the fact that, unless there was continual genetic tinkering with the Vilani, 300,000 years of genetic drift would prevent the canon "Vilani-Solomani interfertility without medical assistance" thing!

That is way back 3 or 4 distinct types of proto-humans ago.

Scientists still argue whether Neandertals and Cro-Magnons, with only some 50,000 years or so of separation on the same world, could successfully interbreed.

Actually, no. The evolutionary split was about 8-10 times further back, and generally regarded to be about a half-million years or so ago.

Neanderthals and modern humans coexisted for about 50,000 years before the former became extinct; but neanderthals were actually around for much, much longer than that.

On Terra, there are species of animal that have been separated by millions and millions of years and are still easily hybridizable. Horses and zebras, lions and tigers, and even camels and llamas have been successfully hybridized. The domestic cow and the American bison are not even in the same genus (let alone species), and yet they hybridize so easily that only a tiny percentage of wild bison are recognized as biologically "pure." Needless to say, these herds are under very close federal supervision.

 

[aramis]

More correctly, GKA, the scientists argue over whether they would produce reproductively viable hybrids.

It is reasonable that they are close enough to interbreed for infertile offspring, but not a certainty that the offspring would be sterile.

Then again, in the last 4MYA, according to the DNA "Clock" the divergence from Chimps, we've generated a chromosome count difference. And an African scientist released that he'd fertilized chimp ova with human sperm in the test tube, but not allowed the zygotes to be implanted. (That was in the 80's, I read the article, and it was merely an announcement, not a detailed paper.) As yet, no one seems to be willing to face the ethics issues of seeing if viable offspring would result.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Excuse me...

Could you please cite the references for the interbreeding problem between Vilani/Solomani.

Second, I would like to bring up the point that the Solomani have some fine Genegineers...I would think that would solve the problem, Chimera.

Comments?

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Could you please cite the references for the interbreeding problem between Vilani/Solomani.

There isn't any. Speculation about any potential Solomani-Vilani "hybridization issues" is based entirely on the highly debatable position that 300,000 years of genetic drift is too far to bridge between related, but geographically separated, organisms.

As I mentioned, there are plenty of Terran examples which toss this theory out the window, at least as regards the matter of time separated as a single factor. Many Terran species are hybridizable across a gulf of several million years' separation; on top of the examples I cited earlier, current genetic analysis indicates that human and chimpanzee ancestors cross-bred for at least a million years after they had branched off from each other. Aramis has also pointed out the frankly icky prospect that humans and chimpanzees might even be hybridizable to this very day.

In the Traveller sense, what this means is that most branches of Humaniti readily propagate with each other. The few which don't either got this way by design (the Barnai and Feskals of the Floriani, for example) or because the environments to which they had to adapt were radically different from their Terran roots -- but not so radically different as to wipe them out entirely (such as the Ayanshi of frigid Ghost, and the Azhanti of highly-irradiated Irale).

As for Solomani and Vilani mixing, it's clear that there are no biological issues that stand between the prospect. The hard part, frankly, is getting a Vilani back to your apartment in the first place.

Second, I would like to bring up the point that the Solomani have some fine Genegineers...I would think that would solve the problem, Chimera.

And then there's that, too. Solomani geneering should quite easily resolve any minor difficulties that might come up.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Comments.

There isn't any. Speculation about any potential Solomani-Vilani "hybridization issues" is based entirely on the highly debatable position that 300,000 years of genetic drift is too far to bridge between related, but geographically separated, organisms.

That makes more sense, thank you.

As I mentioned, there are plenty of Terran examples which toss this theory out the window, at least as regards the matter of time separated as a single factor. Many Terran species are hybridizable across a gulf of several million years' separation; on top of the examples I cited earlier, current genetic analysis indicates that human and chimpanzee ancestors cross-bred for at least a million years after they had branched off from each other. Aramis has also pointed out the frankly icky prospect that humans and chimpanzees might even be hybridizable to this very day.

What's the deal here, afraid of Chimera or just lots of horror movies as a kid?

In the Traveller sense, what this means is that most branches of Humaniti readily propagate with each other. The few which don't either got this way by design (the Barnai and Feskals of the Floriani, for example) or because the environments to which they had to adapt were radically different from their Terran roots -- but not so radically different as to wipe them out entirely (such as the Ayanshi of frigid Ghost, and the Azhanti of highly-irradiated Irale).

I will have to do some research on these Races, thank you.

As for Solomani and Vilani mixing, it's clear that there are no biological issues that stand between the prospect. The hard part, frankly, is getting a Vilani back to your apartment in the first place.

Naw, I have my ways, they can't resist that Daarnulud Charm. *grins*

And then there's that, too. Solomani geneering should quite easily resolve any minor difficulties that might come up.

Well, I knew that...*smiles* that and so much more....
mega:

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

What's the deal here, afraid of Chimera or just lots of horror movies as a kid?

Actually, it's more due to the fact that all those earlier attempts at hybridization weren't done with gee-whiz needle injections, sparking Tesla coils, or whirling centrifuges, but through more ... ahem ... old-fashioned techniques. Again, unless you're into that sort of thing (and Oh dear God if any of you out there are pleez don't tell me about it), it's just -- ick. More Boogie Nights than Weird Science.

One thing's the pity, though. I really would have liked to have seen how a race of Communist Gorilla-Men would have turned out. I really would.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Really.....

Actually, it's more due to the fact that all those earlier attempts at hybridization weren't done with gee-whiz needle injections, sparking Tesla coils, or whirling centrifuges, but through more ... ahem ... old-fashioned techniques. Again, unless you're into that sort of thing (and Oh dear God if any of you out there are pleez don't tell me about it), it's just -- ick. More Boogie Nights than Weird Science.

One thing's the pity, though. I really would have liked to have seen how a race of Communist Gorilla-Men would have turned out. I really would.

Dude, have you met Hilfy Chanur...really meet her...she digs monkeys. Realllyy Digs Them. :smirk:

Umm. Excuse me....

Right, Tesla....ummm, him and Sidney Riley...sometimes you just have to wonder about Time Travellers....

And I will tell Comrade Thunderer's Stick to come on over...ummm...do have cherries....and Vodka...he really loves Vodka, but I mean really who doesn't, just don't mention Comrade Lika or even worse the Capitalist Chimps....he gets...emotional.

 

[aramis]

Humor Mode On
Товариша Лайка болшоий националный герой в Руссия и Совиетский Союз.
Товариша Лайка не спокусник в человекий!
Humor Mode off
Note: If you see question marks above, you need a cyrillic font installed.

In English:

Spoiler:

Friend Laika [is] big hero of Russia and the Soviet Union.
Friend Laika [is] not tempter of humans!

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Totally Dude!

Ummm. I meant Comrade....yeah....*looks for the other one and the black car*

 

[aramis]

Ummm. I meant Comrade....yeah....*looks for the other one and the black car*

Ето не Комрад, ето Товариш. Комрад ето Неметскоий...

Spoiler:

It [is] not Comrade, it's Tovarish [friend]. Comrade is German...

:smirk::rofl::devil:

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

In the words of Noah by way of Bill Cosby....

Ето не Комрад, ето Товариш. Комрад ето Неметскоий...

Spoiler:

It [is] not Comrade, it's Tovarish [friend]. Comrade is German...

:smirk::rofl::devil:

Riiggght. *Zubba, zubba, zubba*

 

[sabredog]

Ето не Комрад, ето Товариш. Комрад ето Неметскоий...

Spoiler:

It [is] not Comrade, it's Tovarish [friend]. Comrade is German...

:smirk::rofl::devil:

Huh.

Actually the definition of the word Tovarich/Tovarish...the original russian is tovarishch is comrade. Its one of those words that has several meanings depending on the dialect and circumstance. It can mean a "fellow worker" for instance. Za Rodinu, tovarich!

Kamarade is the german for comrade. As in ich hatt eine Kamaraden. Or, "Kamarade!" when surrendering.