Vargr Range

[infojunky]

Thinking about how the Vargr are portrayed, with the ease if group fragmentation they should be everywhere in small groups at least. Coupled with the length of time they have been starfaring I can see populations of Vargr almost any place we see populations of Humaniti.

 

[mike wightman]

It is likely you will find Vargr all over the Imperium, there are Vargr Imperial citizens not to mention Vargr from the Jullian Protectorate and the Vargr from the extents.

Aslan are likely to be the second most frequently encountered alien race.

 

[Condottiere]

One difference would be that the Vargr are more migratory, driven by local environmental conditions.

Whereas Aslan are expansionary, driven by population pressure.

 

[mike wightman]

The male Aslan imperative is to seek new land regardless of population size in order to gain status and influence.

Imperialised Aslan may well have been lured by land grants on sparsely populated worlds for example.

 

[Condottiere]

Space expeditions are expensive.

Culturally the Aslan might be American Indians and/or Samurai Cats, but this seems more Scandinavian, and someone has to finance those spacecrafts and associated costs.

With the Vargr, there always seems that hint of desperation.

 

[mike wightman]

Not every Aslan land grab has to be a military adventure. In fact the majority consist of occupying unoccupied real estate rather than direct military conflict.

The Vargr are more free roaming by nature, but their motives for doing so are as varied as they are for humans.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Whereas Aslan are expansionary, driven by population pressure.

MgT had it written that the males are driven by instinct for land. Even barbarians have this instinct.

Barbarians in MgT are Aslan who do not live "traditional" Aslan Hierate culture. Billions upon billions living in the Third Imperium don't follow it and do not suffer the gender penalties (money, gender skills, honor, etc.). Those are pressures/constraints of the culture. The male instinct remains however. How this compares with apparent Aslan population growth and the 3:1 gender ratio is not addressed.

In MgT, Humans in the Hierate who live according to "correct" behavior are accorded full status. To the Hierate they are simply Aslan in "funny suits". (My words not MgT). The instinct is reinforced as a "good thing" by culture, so humans adaptable as we are, go along for the ride.

I wonder though if Hierate Humans might be thought as "lazy" in Aslan thinking, so to speak, as our genes/instinct is not on it.

 

[Condottiere]

The difference between Vargr migratory and Aslan expansionary is that for the Aslan it's expected and prepared for, and that instinct is probably triggered by known and expected environmental and socio political economic factors.

Suppression of that instinct probably is easier for humans, though social expectations probably would force them to participate in those practices, in order to maintain their positions in the Aslan hierarchy, because, we do believe in expand or die, it's just that we can decide in where our personal interests and futures lie.

It's likely the expeditions are funded to export their problems to the frontiers, or they'll probably fall into civil war, interclan or intraclan.

It's interesting the term range is used in the title; for the Vargr, they are probably territorial, and have hunting ranges. It's when they come to the conclusion that they can't defend them, or it's not worth the effort, that they move to somewhere else.

 

[mike wightman]

Aslan will go adventuring looking for land without it being an organised ihatie expedition.

Two of the basic Aslan careers are wanderer and outcast, who are the most likely types of Aslan to be enountered roaming the Imperium without being Imperial Aslan.

 

[Condottiere]

The Imperium has Scouts, too.

I don't recall Lone Wolves, though.

 

[mike wightman]

The Wanderer and Outcast are not scouts, although the Wanderer career does come close.

The Vargr actually have a career called Loner.

 

[Condottiere]

You're sending out, or social pressure is, non comformists and/or excess persons to the fringes; if they find something that they can capitalize on, or utilized as leverage to re establish or improve their social position, they are essentially scouts, or prospectors.

Lone wolf would be low hanging fruit; going by lions, you could have coalitions of small groups of male Aslan looking to get lucky.

 

[mike wightman]

It is not social pressure that drives the Aslan, it is an innate instinct in most males

A deep-seated territorial instinct causes male Aslan to have
an inordinate (from the human point of view) concern for the acquisition
and control of land.

Which is why you have the chance to meet Wanderer and Outcast Aslan from the Heirate inside the Imperium.

 

[Spinward Flow]

if they find something that they can capitalize on, or utilized as leverage to re establish or improve their social position, they are essentially scouts, or prospectors.

I am reminded of one of the Laconic Phrases attributed to Spartans.

Polycratidas was one of several Spartans sent on a diplomatic mission to some Persian generals, and being asked whether they came in a private or a public capacity, answered, "If we succeed, public; if not, private."

"Are you ihatei or outcasts?"
"If we succeed, ihatei. If we fail, outcasts."

Cue the Monty Python guard nodding along and saying, "Well alright then, come on in already..."

 

[Condottiere]

I like to think I've shown remarkable self restraint.


We have the same instinct as the Aslan, expand or die.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I like to think I've shown remarkable self restraint.


We have the same instinct as the Aslan, expand or die.

But humans don't feel compelled to own vast tracts of land. Money and the things it buys, suffices for most.

I'll grant that until fairly recently in history, land was extremely important. Not quite as much so in an industrial civilization.

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on how you measure wealth, power or status.

I'm sort of slowing working my way through Indo European mythology, and it's no accident that the Indians still revere the cow.

If I have the hots for a particular woman, but her father insists on the bride price of a hundred good looking cattle, you can bet I'd be doing my best to acquire them, whether I have a long term breeding programme, or shortcut the process and raid them in either Cooley or the Scottish Lowlands.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Well, this is the IMTU forum, so I will agree to disagree with you Condottiere.

Getting back to the OP:

How far do the Vargr go? Well, Touchstone Sector at least. Through The Great Rift, there is a Vargr nation at Phobetor (Touchstone 2333) so they roam, insanely. Unlike the Aslan (whatever take on them you have LOL), the MgT take on Vargr does not have biological imperatives to roam. It seems it is more a product of charismatic challenges and the Vargr "pack dynamic". A Vargr leaves because he cannot stay as part of a group. So off he goes.

Vargr wont be everywhere automatically. It is said that Vargr can be most anything, but I don't know about that.
Vegetarian Vargr? The K'kree will kill them in K'kree space.
Honorable Vargr. The Aslan won't like them generally, because they don't behave. Barbarians are not tolerated for long in the Hierate. Even if sponsored, a clan/subclan leader has his honor to worry about. Humans can live the Hierate way. Could Vargr? Consistently?

Would they be tolerated in Zhodani space proper? Sure they make great allies against the Immperium, but generally?

 

[Condottiere]

I think there's a tension for Vargr between pack and personal dynamics.

You could say that it's instinctive for a Vargr to join one or more packs, but if they sit back and think about it, it's actually a question as to where their interests lay, and how a pack benefits those.

At the same time, I bet that a Vargr has a highly developed sense of self.