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Trojan Reach

Spartan159

SOC-13
Knight
I am curious why most of the TL F worlds in Trojan Reach were downgraded to TL E and in one case TL C? All I have for canon sources if they are even that is The Trojan Reach book and Pirates of Drinax by Mongoose, Travellers Digest #20 and Megatraveller Journal #3.
 
I am curious why most of the TL F worlds in Trojan Reach were downgraded to TL E and in one case TL C? All I have for canon sources if they are even that is The Trojan Reach book and Pirates of Drinax by Mongoose, Travellers Digest #20 and Megatraveller Journal #3.

Hi,

I wasn't aware any had been changed (I have Mongoose and some old world lists for the Trojan Reach). There are several TL F worlds and all justifiable (ie none in Aslan space), so which have been amended?

Kind Regards

David
 
This was part of the T5SS economic restructuring. All the sectors where the T5SS did their review got changes like this. All of the TL-G worlds in Diaspora for example are also gone. In this case the idea is that the number of TL-F worlds outside the Imperium should be very few and very rare. Inside the Imperium, the number of TL-F worlds is somewhat limited by their impact on the overall economy.
 
This was part of the T5SS economic restructuring. All the sectors where the T5SS did their review got changes like this. All of the TL-G worlds in Diaspora for example are also gone. In this case the idea is that the number of TL-F worlds outside the Imperium should be very few and very rare. Inside the Imperium, the number of TL-F worlds is somewhat limited by their impact on the overall economy.

Unfortunately losing Floria and Vadada as TLF is bad news (Floria should be higher than F anyway with working ancient technology), I certainly won't be redesigning my TL F Floria fleet as I put months of work into it.

Drinax is just a scavenger state and shouldn't really be F and I can accept TechWorld as lower as it only has a tiny population, unless they've changed the population as well...

Regards

David
 
Unfortunately losing Floria and Vadada as TLF is bad news (Floria should be higher than F anyway with working ancient technology), I certainly won't be redesigning my TL F Floria fleet as I put months of work into it.

Drinax is just a scavenger state and shouldn't really be F and I can accept TechWorld as lower as it only has a tiny population, unless they've changed the population as well...

I believe this would be spoiler material if I knew how to do that.

I do not know how canon this information is, it comes from Mongoose. Insec is a major Florian base as well I believe. No one besides the Florians know about the functioning Ancient stuff.

Tech-World had about 4,000 people and 1,000,000 robots and rising according to Mongoose The Trojan Reach, according to Traveller Map it's 30 people.
 
Unfortunately losing Floria and Vadada as TLF is bad news (Floria should be higher than F anyway with working ancient technology), I certainly won't be redesigning my TL F Floria fleet as I put months of work into it.
If you can cite specific references for why you think the existing TravellerMap UWP (and other information) is wrong, go into this thread and post a note there. This will bring it to the attention of both Don (who controls the T5SS information) and Joshua (who updates the Traveller Map).
 
I believe this would be spoiler material if I knew how to do that. I do not know how canon this information is, it comes from Mongoose. Insec is a major Florian base as well I believe. No one besides the Florians know about the functioning Ancient stuff.

Tech-World had about 4,000 people and 1,000,000 robots and rising according to Mongoose The Trojan Reach, according to Traveller Map it's 30 people.

Thanks, I have assumed Mongoose T was canon and it's a bit weird for Don to change data that Mongoose are currently publishing alternative data for.

I appreciate it might not be common knowledge, but if the Florians are retro-engineering their stuff to a lower TL it does help for someone to know.

Kind Regards

David
 
I did address this in the other thread, but to repeat...

Just because a world has an ancient site doesn't mean the world gets a higher TL. Yes, a lot of non-Imperial TL 15s were lowered to 14 (or lower, depending on the circumstances) because Marc really impressed that TL 15 needed to mean something more. This meant that a lot of the DGP MegaTraveller TL15/16 worlds were reined in. And yes, if this were a different Milieu, and we were running to determine sustainable TLs, there would be substantial changes to a lot of worlds.

The UWP changes across the Trojan Reach were intended to restore it to its canon written status... as a frontier, that a lower TL group of Aslan clans might aspire to conquer.

At TL 15, the Florians should turn the Aslan invaders into atoms; canon tells us it's a difficult, hard fight and the Florians lose some worlds to a series of TL 12 foes. That's more excusable at TL 14 than TL 15.

Canon is more than just UWPs. Canon is also Marc's vision of how the sectors fit together, and how the worlds build and flow. We started with the Second Survey data, then added the Sophont Review, and then realized the Timeline was also part of the same set of materials.

tjoneslo has this nailed down. Sadly, the original Mongoose Aslan book was done just before we started the T5SS project. The UWPs supplied for it are REAL close, but you have the tech decisions, a few other vision points, etc. Matthew is apprised of developments with the T5SS, and I know he envisions incorporating those developments in time.

As to your work on the Florian military, use the UWPs you have and your work in your games. Or if you were working to publish... that we'd have to discuss privately.
 
Just because a world has an ancient site doesn't mean the world gets a higher TL. Yes, a lot of non-Imperial TL 15s were lowered to 14 (or lower, depending on the circumstances) because Marc really impressed that TL 15 needed to mean something more. This meant that a lot of the DGP MegaTraveller TL15/16 worlds were reined in. And yes, if this were a different Milieu, and we were running to determine sustainable TLs, there would be substantial changes to a lot of worlds.

The UWP changes across the Trojan Reach were intended to restore it to its canon written status... as a frontier, that a lower TL group of Aslan clans might aspire to conquer.

At TL 15, the Florians should turn the Aslan invaders into atoms; canon tells us it's a difficult, hard fight and the Florians lose some worlds to a series of TL 12 foes. That's more excusable at TL 14 than TL 15.

Canon is more than just UWPs. Canon is also Marc's vision of how the sectors fit together, and how the worlds build and flow. We started with the Second Survey data, then added the Sophont Review, and then realized the Timeline was also part of the same set of materials.

tjoneslo has this nailed down. Sadly, the original Mongoose Aslan book was done just before we started the T5SS project. The UWPs supplied for it are REAL close, but you have the tech decisions, a few other vision points, etc. Matthew is apprised of developments with the T5SS, and I know he envisions incorporating those developments in time.

As to your work on the Florian military, use the UWPs you have and your work in your games. Or if you were working to publish... that we'd have to discuss privately.

Hi Don,

My TL12 Aslan Fleet defeated a TL15 Floriani fleet with casualties that makes
Pyrrhus of Epirus look like a careful commander. They do need a huge numerical and tonnage superiority and a willingness to make suicide attacks, fortunately Mongoose T has no morale rules.

Given the power of the point and click disintegrator ancient technology at Fulacin (unless that's no longer canon as well?) it's hard to see Floria (with larger ancient sites and an ancient ship) falling to the Aslan at any point in the classic timeline (even if the TL14 Tlaiowaha clan intervene) without external intervention by one or more ancients.

Would you be able to indicate the new canon on the Florians please?

Kind Regards

David
 
The disintegrator at Fulacin isn't there during the 5FW (the Ancient Droyne Warriors blow it up at the end of Twilight's Peak in most cases). As to new canon on Floria, that's for a future author. If you're interested, send a proposal to Matthew or Marc. You'll be using the T5SS data though, so any proposal has to fit that, or have great reasons why not.
 
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