Trojan Reach 1105 data?
- Thread starter plop101
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M
Malenfant
Guest
Doesn't the TNE Regency Sourcebook have pre-collapse UWPs for that sector? Or do you not have that.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
The TNE Regency Sourcebook only contains subsectors C, D, G, and H of the Trojan Reaches. And the "old" data is 1117, which is post-Aslan invasion.
The full subsector was done by DGP in TD20, but that is also set in 1117, and therefore post-invasion.
The only pre-invasion data I know of was published in the "Third Imperium" newletter which I have seen, but do not own. While some may claim that it is a fanzine, and therefore non-canonical, I will point out that every UWP I have seen that was published in Third Imperium appears unchanged in TD20. The only difference is alegiance codes to reflect the Aslan expansion.
Finally, subsectors B and C were detailed in the Leviathan adventure (Adv4, I think). Those maps and UWPs match the other sources.
Those are the only sources of information for the Trojan Reaches of which I am aware. There is an off-chance that an early TD had pre-Rebellion data for the Trojan Reaches, but I have never seen or heard of such. (Apparently Deneb was done multiple times.)
As an aside, my Florian page has the Florian League shown for the 1100 timeframe. My page was based on the various sources given above.
The full subsector was done by DGP in TD20, but that is also set in 1117, and therefore post-invasion.
The only pre-invasion data I know of was published in the "Third Imperium" newletter which I have seen, but do not own. While some may claim that it is a fanzine, and therefore non-canonical, I will point out that every UWP I have seen that was published in Third Imperium appears unchanged in TD20. The only difference is alegiance codes to reflect the Aslan expansion.
Finally, subsectors B and C were detailed in the Leviathan adventure (Adv4, I think). Those maps and UWPs match the other sources.
Those are the only sources of information for the Trojan Reaches of which I am aware. There is an off-chance that an early TD had pre-Rebellion data for the Trojan Reaches, but I have never seen or heard of such. (Apparently Deneb was done multiple times.)
As an aside, my Florian page has the Florian League shown for the 1100 timeframe. My page was based on the various sources given above.
Daryen,
The DGP version of the sector can be found here:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/sector.dgp/TROJAN_REACH
A pre-DGP version of the original sector data can be found here:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/sectors/trojanre.sec
The file used to create the Atlas of the Imperium sector map can be found here, with only the HI Pop names given:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/old_sectors/trojan.txt
Hope this helps,
Flynn
The DGP version of the sector can be found here:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/sector.dgp/TROJAN_REACH
A pre-DGP version of the original sector data can be found here:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/sectors/trojanre.sec
The file used to create the Atlas of the Imperium sector map can be found here, with only the HI Pop names given:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/old_sectors/trojan.txt
Hope this helps,
Flynn
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Flynn,
After giving those links a quick overview, this is what I see:
- The first and third links are identical. It doesn't match anything that has been in print. While it looks like the star locations and allegiance codes are correct, the actual UWPs are all wrong. For example, it doesn't list Floria, and the planet in its location (0213) is unpopulated.
Looking over several select worlds, almost nothing matches. I think that file can be safely discarded as completely irrelevant, unless you want to scrap what little canon we have on the Reaches and start from scratch.
If that file is really what was used for the Atlas of the Imperium, does that mean the Atlas does not have Floria listed?
- The second link is the data DGP used in TD20. It is an exact match, right down to the use of the 'Dd' allegiance code, as was seen in TD20. It is full 1117 data; not 1105.
After giving those links a quick overview, this is what I see:
- The first and third links are identical. It doesn't match anything that has been in print. While it looks like the star locations and allegiance codes are correct, the actual UWPs are all wrong. For example, it doesn't list Floria, and the planet in its location (0213) is unpopulated.
Looking over several select worlds, almost nothing matches. I think that file can be safely discarded as completely irrelevant, unless you want to scrap what little canon we have on the Reaches and start from scratch.
If that file is really what was used for the Atlas of the Imperium, does that mean the Atlas does not have Floria listed?
- The second link is the data DGP used in TD20. It is an exact match, right down to the use of the 'Dd' allegiance code, as was seen in TD20. It is full 1117 data; not 1105.
I have Mike Jackson's Third Imperium fanzine - which details most of the sectors in the Trojan Reach at 1105 (more CT era as TI fanzine came out on the cusp of MT being produced) - and very good it is too (if you forgive the fact that it was printed with a Commodore 64 dot matrix printer)!
It is not 'canonical' in the sense that it does not have 'approved for use with Traveller' stamped on it but the TD20 article (which is canon) was co-written by Mike Jackson and the DGP staff - so much of what is in TD20 corresponds to the 1105/ct era data in TI fanzine.
However, in my view, the TI fanzine was somewhat more logical and pregnant in its conception and in it astrogation details. In particular the Aslan break away Glorious Empire - a militaristic, tyrannical to humans (and slaving!) empire presents a really cool bad guy to act against.
I have often thought of applying to someone like COTI to turn out a PDF publication of the Trojan's in 995/1105 based on TI magazine (Anyone interested?). As a frontier on the edge of the Spinward Marches its a really cool place to adventure.
It is not 'canonical' in the sense that it does not have 'approved for use with Traveller' stamped on it but the TD20 article (which is canon) was co-written by Mike Jackson and the DGP staff - so much of what is in TD20 corresponds to the 1105/ct era data in TI fanzine.
However, in my view, the TI fanzine was somewhat more logical and pregnant in its conception and in it astrogation details. In particular the Aslan break away Glorious Empire - a militaristic, tyrannical to humans (and slaving!) empire presents a really cool bad guy to act against.
I have often thought of applying to someone like COTI to turn out a PDF publication of the Trojan's in 995/1105 based on TI magazine (Anyone interested?). As a frontier on the edge of the Spinward Marches its a really cool place to adventure.
I approached Martin about Sector books as TAs, and here's what he had to say (my words are italicized, while his are bolded):
> Good afternoon, Martin,
>
> The discussion on the Solomani Rim War suggestion for a TA on the COTI lists
> led me to another thought I wanted to ask you about. (I keep getting all
> these ideas, so I'm making a list. This one I thought I'd run past you,
> though.)
>
> At this time, QLI seems to release sector information in sourcebook format,
> at one four-sector domain per book. What if someone (such as myself) wanted
> to write a one-sector TA for the Gateway Era, in a manner akin to the
> Spinward Marches or Solomani Rim supplements of CT?
If you think that you could do a 128 page book on a single sector, by all means pitch it. I think it'd work.
> Would a sector book of sorts be something worthy of consideration? Or would
> you rather release that information in sourcebooks, in four-sector domain
> style?
>
> Also, do you think there's an interest in a sector book or two among the
> readership? Would it be worth the effort to put the data together if it were
> a stand-alone product?
>
> Not a proposal at this time.... more of feeling out a concept. I have too
> much to finish before I start something new.
If the sector books have good material and some adventures in them, I think it'll work.
Hope this helps,
Flynn
> Good afternoon, Martin,
>
> The discussion on the Solomani Rim War suggestion for a TA on the COTI lists
> led me to another thought I wanted to ask you about. (I keep getting all
> these ideas, so I'm making a list. This one I thought I'd run past you,
> though.)
>
> At this time, QLI seems to release sector information in sourcebook format,
> at one four-sector domain per book. What if someone (such as myself) wanted
> to write a one-sector TA for the Gateway Era, in a manner akin to the
> Spinward Marches or Solomani Rim supplements of CT?
If you think that you could do a 128 page book on a single sector, by all means pitch it. I think it'd work.
> Would a sector book of sorts be something worthy of consideration? Or would
> you rather release that information in sourcebooks, in four-sector domain
> style?
>
> Also, do you think there's an interest in a sector book or two among the
> readership? Would it be worth the effort to put the data together if it were
> a stand-alone product?
>
> Not a proposal at this time.... more of feeling out a concept. I have too
> much to finish before I start something new.
If the sector books have good material and some adventures in them, I think it'll work.
Hope this helps,
Flynn
mtaylor2003
SOC-4
I'd volunteer to do a Solomani Rim 993 sourcebook. (This is my alternate login by the way - I'm at home doing some writing for Martin for the week).
Mike Taylor
Mike Taylor
mtaylor2003
SOC-4
On 2nd thoughts it would be difficult to do a sourcebook "behind enemy lines". The Sollies would be paranoid about any Imperial travellers wandering around the place. How useful would a Sollie Rim 993 sourcebook be? Not a lot I gather. Perhaps Old Expanses Sector would be better - or Delphi Sector so it can tie in with Gateway
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
How about the Hinterworlds, they tie in with the Gateway domain too, and they're not on the front line of the war the way Old Expanses are (plus there's that ringworld...).
But then again, all of the sectors along the Imperial/Solomani border would be kind of interesting during this era.
Do them all
But then again, all of the sectors along the Imperial/Solomani border would be kind of interesting during this era.
Do them all
Talking of Old Expanses. I did an introductory scenario set in the Vezina system for my players, at the very start of the war. It was just a quick raid by Imperial Marines(the players),on a small base on one of the outer planets. Mainly to give them an idea how deadly combat is in T20.
In preparation, I rerolled the UWP's for the subsector (obviously keeping the size, atmos & hydrographics the same.) and putting a max on the tech level at 14. The only info I had to work from was from TNE, so I figured a lot could change in 200 years and rerolled them.
I initially tried using rules from Hard Times, for collapse, and reverse engineering them, but that became too complicated. I'd be interested to know how others have approached this problem.
In preparation, I rerolled the UWP's for the subsector (obviously keeping the size, atmos & hydrographics the same.) and putting a max on the tech level at 14. The only info I had to work from was from TNE, so I figured a lot could change in 200 years and rerolled them.
I initially tried using rules from Hard Times, for collapse, and reverse engineering them, but that became too complicated. I'd be interested to know how others have approached this problem.
ChrisR,
I usually check out the Missouri Archives first:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/sectors/
If the UWPs don't look right, or I just want something fresh, I use Andrew M-V's GEnie/Sunbane Regenerator:
http://www.downport.com/amv/software/Genie.html
With that app, you can regenerate the UWPs or portions thereof, and still keep them in alignment with the Atlas of the Imperium data.
After that, it's all a matter of personal taste,
Flynn
I usually check out the Missouri Archives first:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/sectors/
If the UWPs don't look right, or I just want something fresh, I use Andrew M-V's GEnie/Sunbane Regenerator:
http://www.downport.com/amv/software/Genie.html
With that app, you can regenerate the UWPs or portions thereof, and still keep them in alignment with the Atlas of the Imperium data.
After that, it's all a matter of personal taste,
Flynn
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Just a quick followup on the Trojan Reaches.
Except for the obvious allegiance issues, TI and TD20 are identical, from what I can tell. Atlas is also identical (from the limited information given in it), with three exceptions:
- The planet in 3030 is named "Towne" instead of "Browne"
- Floria is not named.
- No Floriani bases shown.
So, for whatever reason, despite showing the correct worlds being part of the "fl" allegiance, the Atlas doesn't show Floria being a "hipop" world.
For my purposes, however, the Atlas of the Imperium substantiates the info TI and TD20, so I won't worry about using it.
Except for the obvious allegiance issues, TI and TD20 are identical, from what I can tell. Atlas is also identical (from the limited information given in it), with three exceptions:
- The planet in 3030 is named "Towne" instead of "Browne"
- Floria is not named.
- No Floriani bases shown.
So, for whatever reason, despite showing the correct worlds being part of the "fl" allegiance, the Atlas doesn't show Floria being a "hipop" world.
For my purposes, however, the Atlas of the Imperium substantiates the info TI and TD20, so I won't worry about using it.
