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Trivia: an addition to Imperial Anglic

travalv

SOC-9
I an thinking of adding the "interrobang" as a valid punctuation mark IMTU's version of Anglic (I loathe the word "Galanglic"...

A brief descriptionis located here: http://www.interrobang-mks.com/

Has anyone else 'flavoured' their version of the Imperial language? Since we don't actually need to speak Imperial to play the game, I doubt it: but a few small changes (ie: 'humaniti') can help create an atmosphere of 'things are diferent here'...
 
Have to admit, this is something I have never worried about. As for my opinion, I think it will help accomplish your goal of illustrating things are a bit different around here.

Bob
 
Yeah, Merchant Reaper, most Referees & Players are just not interested in this level of trivia ;) And I do respect their viewpoint: Ref's have enough things to worry about, and Players just want to get into the game, see new civilizations, and watch out for tracer shots - not worry about their punctuation!

But hey, if any Ref's and the PC like my bit of flavour, go for it!

I guess that what I really want is immersive gaming, to truly step into another, self-consistent world. But I don't have a few Crays and the personal world design team I could use to really create a differnt world...

Funding would be nice, too! Any Imperial Nobles out there with the cash to blow on this kind of thing? I'm a bit strapped right now...
 
Heretech

1. Here(tical)-tech(nology). Technology that is generally regarded as being too dangerous and/or antisocial to be acceptable. Examples include nanotechnology and cybernetics. Technology can be redeemed from this heretical state by changes in the social perception of its dangers. Most Imperials would not believe that Nuclear power should be regarded as heretch, yet ancient Solomani records show that for a time it was.

2. A person following a religious cult that promotes heretical technology, for example a cult preaching "freedom from the meat" through cybernetics.
 
"What about use of a standardized "pictorial" or iconographic language in Traveller? Is there a basis for such a thing?" he said, staring at his "My Computer" icon...

omega.gif
 
Originally posted by WendellM:
I believe the more common form of this is just "?!". No real need for a special char.
I tend to use 3 chars, either "!?!" or "?!?", depending on whether the puzzlement or the startlement is uppermost in my mind.


Hans ;)
 
Originally posted by Falkayn:
Heretech

1. Here(tical)-tech(nology). Technology that is generally regarded as being too dangerous and/or antisocial to be acceptable. Examples include nanotechnology and cybernetics. Technology can be redeemed from this heretical state by changes in the social perception of its dangers. Most Imperials would not believe that Nuclear power should be regarded as heretch, yet ancient Solomani records show that for a time it was.

2. A person following a religious cult that promotes heretical technology, for example a cult preaching "freedom from the meat" through cybernetics.
Hmm, doesn't really flow sounds a bit contrived. I think people would just called it badtech if they thought about it at all (the establishment of course would prefer that they not think about it).

Kerry
 
Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran:
"What about use of a standardized "pictorial" or iconographic language in Traveller? Is there a basis for such a thing?" he said, staring at his "My Computer" icon...

omega.gif
That is a very interesting idea. Since, iirc, anglic became the language of the Imperium during the Rule of Man when the Solomani culture began to seriously weed its way into Imperial life, it's easy to extrapolate current trends out to get some ideas about what things would be like on Terra thousands of years from now.
Especially since the advent of the internet, we've seen a major trend in western culture to bastardize the language (skillz, xtreme, etc) and iconify concepts.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that there are different distinct levels of literacy and written language in the Imperium. Your average Joe or Jane really has no reason to know how to fully read the Anglic language, since news broadcasts, literature, entertainment and communication can all be easily handled vocally (through videophones, human or computers reading to yo, etc.). Their computer terminals and everything else they use that is computerized (which, if you at least accept the Virus plotline as a possibility (whether you accept that it happened isn't important, just the idea that it could happen), would be so dumbed down that it's easy to picture a very MSN/AOL style interface that has little or no written text, instead relying on icons and voice to allow the people to interface with it. This becomes even more prevalent if you've added cybertech to your campaign. Why should I bother reading the terminal when I can just plug in and have the data hotwired into my brain?

Getting back somewhat to the original topic of the thread though:

I think introducing new characters into the alphabet is a great idea, and it doesn't even have to be a Imperium wide standard. Regional and/or vocational variation is a very realistic possibility, as is the use of slang and jargon that varies greatly. Consider, as someone touched on briefly in a prior post, the use of the word meat:

Standard definition: Animal Protein that you can eat
Cybertech Folk def: The human body before augmentation
Mercenary/Military def: Corpses on a battlefield
Psionics Endowed Folk def: The mind of a non-psion

Other variants are possible, and likely, but I think those illustrate the point. Fleshing out and diversifying the language spoken by most folk is, imo, an important part of bringing the Imperium to life.

One last bit that just occured to me, considering that I grew up in Southern California, where a lot of Spanish words and phrases get assimilated into American English. It makes perfect sense that the further you travel into the heart of the Vilani sections of the Imperium, you would find more Vilani phrases and words sprinkled throughout Imperial Anglic. Similarly, out in the Spinward Marches you might find a bit of Zhodani mixed into the cant. Traces of Vargr, Aslan and other alien languages would be prevalent in the areas with contact with those races.

I really like the idea that two Imperial humans, both fully fluent in (spoken at least) Anglic could walk up to each other and both be thinking 'what the hell did he just say?' Great immersion into the setting through that simple technique.
 
Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran:
"What about use of a standardized "pictorial" or iconographic language in Traveller? Is there a basis for such a thing?" he said, staring at his "My Computer" icon...
There's never been a natural pictorial language at any time in real human history. *Every* written language, even what might seem to be obvious exceptions like Chinese and Ancient Egyptian, have a considerable basis in the spoken language it represents. Visual puns based on similarity of spoken words, using pictures to represent the first letter of the object they display, that sort of thing. They're more "rebus" languages than "pictorial", if you know what I mean.

So, if you mean "strictly pictorial", in the sense of symbols that directly represent the concepts themselves with no reference to spoken language, no, the human brain doesn't seem to be wired to allow a that kind of reading except at the pidgin level. If you mean something less strict, we've already got them: Chinese, etc.
 
Originally posted by chatdemon:
One last bit that just occured to me, considering that I grew up in Southern California, where a lot of Spanish words and phrases get assimilated into American English. It makes perfect sense that the further you travel into the heart of the Vilani sections of the Imperium, you would find more Vilani phrases and words sprinkled throughout Imperial Anglic. Similarly, out in the Spinward Marches you might find a bit of Zhodani mixed into the cant. Traces of Vargr, Aslan and other alien languages would be prevalent in the areas with contact with those races.
There was an effort, in the latter days of MT, to introduce Coranglic, which was the dialect used by Humans in the unassimilated portions of the First Imperium which now make up the Julian Protectorate and Empire of Gashikan. Antares sector itself was also influenced by it. The dialect was much more heavily modified by Vilani vocabulary and grammar.

It never really got off the ground, though, mostly because those parts of the Imperium never got very detailed.
 
Originally posted by Paul_Drye:
There was an effort, in the latter days of MT, to introduce Coranglic, which was the dialect used by Humans in the unassimilated portions of the First Imperium which now make up the Julian Protectorate and Empire of Gashikan. Antares sector itself was also influenced by it. The dialect was much more heavily modified by Vilani vocabulary and grammar.
The JP stuff I've seen refers to Transform as the local dialiect of galanglic in the Julian Protectorate ... is that related to coranglic?
 
Originally posted by Falkayn:
The JP stuff I've seen refers to Transform as the local dialiect of galanglic in the Julian Protectorate ... is that related to coranglic?
You've got me...I've never seen that one before. Can you give me a reference so I can go take a look?

Cheers,
Paul Drye
 
Originally posted by Paul Drye:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Falkayn:
The JP stuff I've seen refers to Transform as the local dialiect of galanglic in the Julian Protectorate ... is that related to coranglic?
You've got me...I've never seen that one before. Can you give me a reference so I can go take a look?</font>[/QUOTE]I don't think there are any examples of Transform. It is just mentioned as one of the many dialects in the library data article about Anglic in Imperial Encyclopedia

The full entry is:

"Anglic: The official language of the Third Imperium. A distant descendent of Terran English, Anglic was the language of the Rule of Man . Anglic remained a common interstellar language for trade and commerce during the Long Night. Its widespread use on the original worlds of the Third Imperium made it the natural language when the Imperium was established.

On many worlds, Anglic is only a second langauge used for System traffic control, commercial operations, and interstellar communications. Anglic is sometimes called Galanglic (or Galactic Anglic).

The Imperium has not been able to prevent the emergence of a wide variety of Anglic dialects. Interstellar communications, holocrystals, and recordings help to spread a uniform pronunciation of Anglic throughout the Imperium. Within the Imperium, any Anglic speaker can understand almost any other, but isolated communities on worlds with little contact with the interstellar trade lanes shift their speech patterns to form dialects. In addition, broad areas within the Imperium have established their own pronunciation patterns; accepted dialects include Rim (which includes Terra), Core (the central region of the Imperium), Riftian (the spinward frontiers), and Transform (the Antares region)."[IE:17]


Hans

(We need a graemlin with thick glasses for when we're being scholarly ;) )
 
These aging posts remind me of a minor subelement of that short-lived TV show "Firefly". Whatever the reason (probably tech & trade?), a noticeable 'idiomatic crust' of Chinese was adopted into English.

Warning: because I'm a nerd, I like to think about Anglic. Because I'm not a linguist, my thoughts are random and erratic.

So, the major idiomatic crusts I see in 3rd-Imperium (year 1100) Anglic IMTU sort of match the major events in the 3I's history, and go something like this:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Source Language Age of Idioms
------------------ -------------
'Plankwell' Anglic 400 y
'Zhunatsu' Sylean 1000 y
*** Insert Long Night Here! ***
'Ziru Sirka' Vilani 3200 y
'Confederation English' 3400 y
'International English' 3500 y
British English 3250 y
Middle English 3750 y
Old English 4250 y</pre>[/QUOTE]Looking at the Long Night, I'm sort of wondering if Sylean is Anglic-based; otherwise why would Anglic survive as The trade language of the Sylean Federation or Zhunatsu Corporation...

I also wonder if I should even bother with distinguishing 'Confederation English' from 'International English'.

Yes I'm picking nits, but it keeps me out of trouble mostly.
 
Originally posted by rancke:
"Anglic: The official language of the Third Imperium. A distant descendent of Terran English, Anglic was the language of the Rule of Man . Anglic remained a common interstellar language for trade and commerce during the Long Night. Its widespread use on the original worlds of the Third Imperium made it the natural language when the Imperium was established.
[/QB]
Addendum to my post above: to survive, and to agree with the Encyclopedia, Anglic would probably have to be common trade language for Major/Important worlds: ones with higher technology and higher populations, Sylea perhaps being the most successful example. Anglic was made the official language because of its relative ubiquity? Sylean is probably seen as being 'owned' by Sylea? Anyone have any ideas about this?

Again, yes, I know I'm picking nits.
 
As far as what Anglic will probably contain that makes it related to English at all:

"Short words are best and the old words when short are best of all."

- Winston Churchill
 
Hi I am new here but I had to chime in.

It is not really a nit. Language could be tied to social class and education. If it was "owned" by the upper crust it could function as French did in medieval England, as a mark of education and refinement.
 
I agree with Parmasson, only not in the conventional way.

Galanglic may have survived the Long Night and become the dominant language not because it was the language of the educated and the refined, but rather because it was the language of the starfarers, explorers and merchants that began re-contacting societies that were isolated during the Long Night. This also may be why the 3I uses a 365.25 day calendar, a 24 (23.56) hour day and a standardized currency. These time-tables would have made sense to only one group of traders/ merchants/ explorers/ social parasites: The Solomani. If the Solomani were the first group to head back out into the unknown after the LN, it would make sense to take their standardization with them. If they were merchants with an industrial base for the manufacture of trade goods (and possibly the only ones around with one) they could insist on their own standards of trade metals and weight measures (see James Burke's book/ TV show Connections for the significance of this act). Thereby insuring that Solomani culture, or at least certian standards and elements of the culture would insinuate themselves into every culture they had contact with.

THe Solomani have insured that whether or not the 3I wipes them off the face of the unverse, bombs them into oblivion or otherwise erases them, the Solomani will be forever remembered. Even parts of Solomani/ American culture are evident even after the 3I is gone. TNE's Smash and grab makes reference to 'That guy on the Purple Heart" or that great line "I don't know who that omlette guy was, be sure can make some good eggs." Point being that language and commercial culture are the Solomani's gift to the empire. And due to the places the Solomani have insinuated themselves into 3I culture, we're stuck with them.
 
There's a diaspora of sorts during the last days of the Rule of Man / Long Night since this is when many of the trailing areas get settled outside of the tradition boundaries of the 1st/2nd Imperium. Not to mention to the Solomani influence of the Interstellar Wars/Rule of Man itself.

Sure Anglic would have substantial loanwords and changes, related to region etc. and IIRC the varieties of Anglic were first mentioned in a JTAS article. I've also seen them in a SJG JTAS article (along with some additions) and there may be a GDW MT mention.

I added a Gateway dialect when sub-GMing in Gateway, thinking that roughly each domain or so would differ enough to warrent classification as a seperate dialect. Gateway would add loan words etc. from the local Vargr dialect, K'kree, more Core and Rim influence than Vilani, and perhaps even some Hiver gestures.


As for Firefly, with the dominant government being the Anglo-Sino Alliance, Mandarin Chinese (or at least phrases/concepts from) seems to be as important as English, at least for goverment, high society, and trade.
 
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