CT Only: Traveller Population = Mostly Military

[Supplement Four]

I don't buy the thesis that COTI careers are mostly stay at home. They get various passage tickets and TAS and SHIPS so they are Out There.

I'm speaking in generalities, not specifics. I think that you can make a case for just about anyone to be a Traveller. It's the large populations that makes up the Traveller class that we're discussing.

And, I"m just interpreting what the rules teach us about the universe.

For example, there can't be too many people from Pysadi in the Aramis subsector that make it to the Traveller class. Most Pysadians must stay on their homeworld.

Why? Well, they are a TL-4 culture, to begin with. They are also a non-industrial civilization. Even with the tech bleed that must occur from trade and those from other, higher tech worlds, the general population sits in the technology of the 1860's to the 1900's.

In fact, if you are one of the few who break the mold and actually learn higher technology, it's probably harder to get a job. Do you think MegaCorps are recruiting on Pysadi with the expense of training new employees with a TL4 background to be able to work capably on a TL-C starship?

So...what's the answer? Join the military. Go down to the starport and join the Imperial Navy or submit to the Draft. Then, you will be plucked off your homeworld, trained, and brought into the interstellar age.

It would be like taking a person from a dirt poor tribe in Africa today and teaching him to read and write and learn higher technology with the US Army than he did living barefoot in his hut.





Maybe there's a governmental program that subsidizes the training of some individuals on worlds like Pysaidi (because admittance to the Merchants obviously happens)--where companies get paid by the Empire to raise the personal Tech level of some of these individuals, allowing them to be Travellers.

Or, maybe there are schools available, even on worlds like Pysaidi, that will prepare a TL 4 person for life in a TL A+ interstellar universe.

I wouldn't let chargen define setting though.

Why not? It's where all the PCs and NPCs come from.

Look at all the GDW adventures for CT. Look at the NPCs encountered. Most have military backgrounds.

 

[Supplement Four]

Agreed. The character generation system is not a demographic simulation, nor was it ever intended to be. Use of it as such lies entirely within the purview of IYTU.

And we should not forget that CT *as published by GDW* included dozens of careers, though only 19 of them are dominantly Imperial.

To these comments, I would say:

1. Almost all GDW (and third party CT products) use Book 1 careers to create NPCs. Look at 1001 Characters. Look at any GDW adventure. Look at most of the detailed NPC writes ups in JTAS.

The vast majority come from Book 1 careers.

That tells us that, by far, the Traveller class comes from Book 1 careers.



2. Supplement 4 CotI careers, and the various careers we see in JTAS and supplements, are to help flesh out the minority characters encountered on worlds and as Travellers. But, they do not make up the majority of Traveller in the universe.



3. Obviously, I'm focusing on the Third Imperium. Not Zhodani space or on the Vargr or any other alien culture (Including Sol).

 

[Supplement Four]

And, here's another claim that we can make by looking at the game data.

Travellers usually don't travel very far. As I said before, jumping between stars is expensive. And, the most common J-types are Jump 1-3.

So, you've got expense to jump and possible jump distance keeping Travellers fairly close to "hot spots" in a subsector.

Add to this factors like jump lanes and J-1 ships that are locked into a range of finite worlds--with this, you can divide the subsector into regions.




You can even define who the typically Travellers are. Look at the worlds in the subsector and notice the starport class, the world's population, and any notes about the planet, such as bases or industrialization. Then, look at the TL of the world.

With this information, you can easily determine where the hotspots are.

When starting a new campaign, a Ref may even want to limit homeworld choice to the hotspots--those worlds where it is easiest for a person to become a Traveller.

Although all sorts of exceptions can be made, figure that Travellers come from worlds that are TL A+. Naval characters may come from those worlds with Naval bases. The same goes for Marines. Scouts will most likely be found in systems with Scout bases and way stations (or along the X-Boat routes, to a lesser degree).

 

[mike wightman]

That's because they couldn't assume you had the supplements and additional rule books - so the adventures and double adventures were basic rules only.

 

[mike wightman]

Using the working passage rule a Traveller could get from one end of the Imperium to the other for free...

 

[creativehum]

Cross-posted with Mike:

When starting a new campaign, a Ref may even want to limit homeworld choice to the hotspots--those worlds where it is easiest for a person to become a Traveller.

Although all sorts of exceptions can be made, figure that Travellers come from worlds that are TL A+. Naval characters may come from those worlds with Naval bases. The same goes for Marines. Scouts will most likely be found in systems with Scout bases and way stations (or along the X-Boat routes, to a lesser degree).

Interesting. While it is very possible to have the characters start in the subsector where they are from, I have always assumed travellers spent a good deal traveling from "civilized" areas of space to a patch of star systems where men and women of an adventurous spirit have a chance of carving out their fortunes on their own terms.

As examples I always think of soldiers from the Civil War heading to the western territories or soldiers of the British Empire heading to India and the other colonies around the globe.

In terms of 3I I'd still work things the same way. Instead of the PCs being from the Regina subsector I'd have the PCs having just arrived at the Regina starport after scraping their way with working passage and money earned from adventures. They wanted to go to the Spinward Marches, where men and women of the traveller spirit can thrive beyond the bounds of the more structured (and perhaps stifling) society of "the remote, centralized government."

But that's my default. I'm just as interested in setting up a subsector where local politics and conflicts are the stuff the PCs are already a part of and already have a stake in it as well.

 

[creativehum]

That's because they couldn't assume you had the supplements and additional rule books - so the adventures and double adventures were basic rules only.

I was going to write a second post... saying exactly this.

Although this board assumes everyone has bought and studied every Book, Supplement, Adventure, Double Adventure, and issues of the JTAS, I think GDW wisely assumed that they should run their material of the Basic Traveller rules found in various core editions of the game.

 

[whartung]

For example, Travellers are an exotic breed of people who travel amongst the stars. This isn't the Star Wars universe where just about anybody can go into space. There is only a select portion of the population who does so. Most people stay on their homeworlds their entire lives.

I'm no Star Wars-phile, I just see the movies.

But, at least on the rim system ala Tatooine and Jakku, space flight seems like fantasy than reality. It MIGHT be more popular in the more developed systems, but that's not really clear.

You need to recall that for most folks, they don't leave the planet simply because they don't have to. It's a big place, and pretty much everything they need is right there.

There are similar stories of folks who have lived in their neighborhoods and never travel. They barely leave the city, and never leave the state. Obviously today, air travel is safe, cheap, and ubiquitous. But even then, many folks don't fly.

Spaceflight in Traveller is expensive, but so are cruises and going to Disney World. So, some would certainly Travel to some exotic place, just to see it, just to go on their honeymoon, on top of those who travel for business or trade.

But even here on earth, travel is expensive, not just in dollars, but in time. Folks in general don't have their dentist 100 miles away, which open up markets for dentists to work locally.

 

[GypsyComet]

I was going to write a second post... saying exactly this.

I'll add that 1001 Characters (Supplement 1, 1978) rather obviously came out before Citizens (Supplement 4, 1979) or any of the alien modules (1984+) did, and as such is a poor choice for supporting that argument.

 

[aramis]

I'll add that 1001 Characters (Supplement 1, 1978) rather obviously came out before Citizens (Supplement 4, 1979) or any of the alien modules (1984+) did, and as such is a poor choice for supporting that argument.

QFT.
It's also worth noting that several later adventures presume Bk 5.

Likewise, the later AMs include Bk 5 notes.

 

[flykiller]

With this information, you can easily determine where the hotspots are.

with this map you can see where the "hot spots" are.

 

[Whipsnade]

That's because they couldn't assume you had the supplements and additional rule books - so the adventures and double adventures were basic rules only.

That's so true, and it's something we all tend to forget even if we ever knew it.

I owned SMC well before S:3. I didn't see Atlas of the Imperium until I bought a copy on the TML in the early 2000s. I didn't see LBB:8 until I bought the CT BFB Reprint.

The 'net has made it so much more easy to own and see materials that it's hard to remember what it used to be like. If you never experienced it, it's even harder to understand. I remember one poster here asking why a product like 1978's S:1 1001 Characters ever sold when it would so easy to have a computer churn out the same lists.

As for the other topic in this thread, I'll repeat again that chargen is not demographics.

 

[Timerover51]

Using the working passage rule a Traveller could get from one end of the Imperium to the other for free...

Hmm, I had not thought of that, but you are perfectly correct, and probably pick up quite a bit of additional skills in the bargain. A party of adventurers wanting to do that would drive a Game Master absolutely nuts though, having to come up with new world situations on a regular basis.

As for game players to have a military bias, when you look at the history of explorers and adventurers, you also see a distinct military bias. Generally, adventuring and exploring poses physical risks to the participant, so a military background is a survival plus.

Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium, is one of the most useful of the supplements, between adding new player backgrounds, very useful for more detailed NPC as well, and some new skills.

 

[Supplement Four]

As examples I always think of soldiers from the Civil War heading to the western territories or soldiers of the British Empire heading to India and the other colonies around the globe.

Nice analogy.

In terms of 3I I'd still work things the same way. Instead of the PCs being from the Regina subsector I'd have the PCs having just arrived at the Regina starport after scraping their way with working passage and money earned from adventures.

Contrary to what I say above, my past Traveller adventures have mainly been as you say--where the PCs are new to the subsector. Well, I did several, too, where the PCs were all from one world.

My reasoning, though, was purely from a Ref's point of view--wanting the players to discover the universe and not automatically assume that the characters know more than the players do.

 

[Supplement Four]

But, at least on the rim system ala Tatooine and Jakku, space flight seems like fantasy than reality. It MIGHT be more popular in the more developed systems, but that's not really clear.

I think it's very clear, especially as shown in the prequels.

There are some lower-tech races, like Tatooine's Tusken Raiders and their Jawas (or the Ewoks from Endor's moon), but the space faring races just get up and go when they need to.

Piloting spacecraft is like driving a car--many people can do it.

Sure, there are those out there who are not pilots, but these people are like New Yorkers who live their entire lives taking the subway or a cab (or Uber) and never getting a driver's license.

There's not a lot of difference between civilian and military craft, either, as Luke shows, piloting the X-Wing in ANH with no experience other than the T-16 Skyhopper he flew through Beggar's Canyon back home.

 

[Supplement Four]

with this map you can see where the "hot spots" are.

Very nice map. That should be standard.:coffeegulp:

 

[aramis]

I think it's very clear, especially as shown in the prequels.

There are some lower-tech races, like Tatooine's Tusken Raiders and their Jawas (or the Ewoks from Endor's moon), but the space faring races just get up and go when they need to.

Piloting spacecraft is like driving a car--many people can do it.

Sure, there are those out there who are not pilots, but these people are like New Yorkers who live their entire lives taking the subway or a cab (or Uber) and never getting a driver's license.

There's not a lot of difference between civilian and military craft, either, as Luke shows, piloting the X-Wing in ANH with no experience other than the T-16 Skyhopper he flew through Beggar's Canyon back home.

I look at SW and see four things that I don't see in Traveller, and which define the Travellers of that setting...

1: Space Travel in the SWU is cheap. As in, sell your used car.
2: Space Travel in the SWU is fast. As in, thousands of Pc per hour. As in, you can pop over to a neighboring system for a weekend getaway.
3: the ship tech is extremely easy to use. As in, we see competent repulsor pilots transition to spacecraft with zero training time. And vice versa.
4: FTL commo, so you can easily book a weekend out-system

By comparison:
1: Space travel in the OTU is expensive - both hardware and passage costs. A mid passage costs 150% the specified average annual upkeep per person. (Cr400 per month x 13 months = Cr5200; MP = 8000)
2: Space travel is slow - parsecs per week. To be able to take an out-system vacation with a week at the resort, one needs to have at least 3 weeks vacation time
3: Ship operation skills are hard to get and essentially para-professional level training.
4: No FTL travel.

The prime corollary of these are that it is that Star Wars is closer to an Air-travel model, and traveller is very very far from it.

 

[kilemall]

Why not? It's where all the PCs and NPCs come from.

Look at all the GDW adventures for CT. Look at the NPCs encountered. Most have military backgrounds.

Others noted the publishing sequence, so it's a false canon type argument.

What counts is the setting and story one wants to tell/play/explore. It should be a separate conscious setting/NPC decision a ref makes for an intended effect or gameplay, not a rote decision driven by the nature of the first book published.

 

[whartung]

I think it's very clear, especially as shown in the prequels.

There are some lower-tech races, like Tatooine's Tusken Raiders and their Jawas (or the Ewoks from Endor's moon), but the space faring races just get up and go when they need to.

Piloting spacecraft is like driving a car--many people can do it.

Sure, there are those out there who are not pilots, but these people are like New Yorkers who live their entire lives taking the subway or a cab (or Uber) and never getting a driver's license.

There's not a lot of difference between civilian and military craft, either, as Luke shows, piloting the X-Wing in ANH with no experience other than the T-16 Skyhopper he flew through Beggar's Canyon back home.

But there's no evidence that Luke had ever been in space after being entrusted to his Aunt and Uncle as an infant. There's no evidence that Ray has ever been in space either, she is certainly dreaming of it. Obviously she can fly, like Luke could fly, but she's also a raging ball of The Force right now, so, apparently, she can do "anything".

Airplanes and airlines are cheap and plentiful, but most people do not use them. They may well have been on a plane trip a few times in their lives, but that doesn't mean that, even though readily available, flight is common to most people.

So, despite it's ubiquity, many people look longingly at flying here on Earth, or space travel in Star Wars or Traveller. As cheap as it seems to be, as available it may be, it's apparently still too expensive for most.

 

[Condottiere]

1. What was Ray's birth place?

2. Where did Luke set up his Jedi kindergarten?

3. Someone dropped her off at that junkyard, and told her they're coming back.