Traveller: point based system

[Rerednaw]

Anyone recall the point character generation method published in Dragon Magazine eons ago?

Basically most skills ranged from 2 to 6 points per level of skill (I think). Characteristics started at a base and had a point value as well. Psionics were very expensive but could be had at the expense of just about any other useful skill.

You rolled survival and promotion as usual, the more terms your character 'served' the more points you got.

Wonder if Traveller will have an option for a point based system for character generation. [I don't mean GURPs Traveller.]

Cheers.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Rerednaw (edited 28 June 2001).]

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

I don't recall that article, but it shouldn't be too hard to krunk up a point-buy system for Traveller. The attributes would be easy, although skills might get a little weird (eg service-based auto skills).

Perhaps somebody has already done this and could post it? If not, perhaps we can whack it out right here?

-FCS

 

[William]

Originally posted by Rerednaw:
Snip
[I don't mean GURPs Traveller.]

Cheers.

Mike

For all practical purposes that _is_ point based traveller. Then, I conseider point based systems to be less than useless...

If you don't want the abomonation that is G:T then offer an alternative.. Please. I'd love to try a new meathod. Otherwise deal with the mess that remains... ;'p

(Kinda like getting John Hooker to do Doors music... !)

William

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>For all practical purposes [G:T] _is_ point based traveller. Then, I conseider point based systems to be less than useless...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think what the poster was asking for is something akin to the optional point-buy system in D20/DND3E or old Melee/The Fantasy Trip.

For example, imagine that your UPP starts out at 888888. Then, you have some points to spread around; say 6 points. you could put 3 on Str, 3 on End, take a couple points from Edu and add them to Dex, etc.

That part seems pretty simple. The skills part would have to be a little different.

The advantage of this system over die rolling is that everybody's characters have a level playing field, ie nobody feels cheated by the luck of the dice. Some people just prefer that, and the end result is almost exactly the same. I hesitate to call that useless.

-FCS


[This message has been edited by FlightCommanderSolitude (edited 28 June 2001).]

 

[T. Foster]

I really despise point-based char-gen systems and the idea that all characters should be perfectly 'balanced' Is everybody in RL balanced? Of course not. And yet everyone wants it to be that way in rpgs -- I much prefer to let the players randomly generate a couple-three characters to come up with one they like; that way nobody's stuck with a turkey but we haven't broken the 'integrity' of the system.

That said, though, in the interest of providing as many options as possible for players, I think that there should be a point-based char-gen for Traveller. My thought is that there would be effectively 2 types of points, Character Points and Skill Points. Character Points would be used to buy attribute points and/or terms of service. Each term of service would provide x number of Skill Points, which would be used to purchase skills, rank/promotions, and mustering out benefits (money, items, ships) off of various lists, one for each service (and, in keeping with T4/proposed T5 convention, each character would also get a number of 'discretionary SP' to be spent on background and/or hobby skills). Service skills would accrue automatically to anyone who spends a CP for a term in that service; the various rolls (enlistment, survival, promotion, etc.) would be done away with.

I don't think I'd particularly like or use such a system, but it could work and would probably maintain something a lot closer to the traditional Trav-feel than what you get from GURPS.

 

[T. Foster]

Responding to myself, a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation looks like about 12 CP is a good starting amount; each attribute point above 7 costs a point, each below 7 gives a point back; each term of service costs a point (terms can only be taken in the Nobles if Soc A+).

Each term gives approx. 6 SP; each skill-point from 0 to 3 costs a point (i.e. skill-3 = 4 SP), each point from 4 to 6 costs 2 (i.e. skill 6 = 10 SP), above 6 is either not allowed or costs 3 (or 4?); position/comission costs 2 SP, after which each promotion costs 1 SP (rank at the expense of skill runs contrary to traditional Trav, but I envision other perks - auto-skills at certain ranks, 'forbidden' lists of skills and/or mustering out benefits which can only be taken by characters of certain rank (i.e. ship for Merchants), etc.); 1 SP also = x amount of cash (varying by service, doubled for characters above a certain rank) and SP can also be spent on mustering-out goods (guns and passages are cheap (1 or 2 SP), TAS moderate, ships expensive).

I'm not sure about exact numbers/costs, but I think the idea is pretty sound. Any comments/additions or blatant flaws I'm overlooking?

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

That all sounds reasonable, although I might maintain die-rolling for mustering out, for no reason that I can justify.

I'll noodle around with what you've proposed and see how it works out. Good job!

-FCS


[This message has been edited by FlightCommanderSolitude (edited 29 June 2001).]

 

[TCHarrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
I really despise point-based char-gen systems and the idea that all characters should be perfectly 'balanced' Is everybody in RL balanced? Of course not. And yet everyone wants it to be that way in rpgs -- I much prefer to let the players randomly generate a couple-three characters to come up with one they like; that way nobody's stuck with a turkey but we haven't broken the 'integrity' of the system.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed! Another problem with point-based system is what in the world do spend the points on? How do you decide? Deep down most people want high stats, but to get one high, you have to sacrifice another, making it very hard to get your character just right, which is really why people like point-based systems, isn't it?

On second thought, they're not that bad, but it is true that not everyone's balanced.

Now, what about this:

If you like the customization of point-based systems but don't want the "everybody's the same" effect, just start each character with a lower total and have them roll some dice to add to that. Make the roll open-ended, counting 6s as 5s and rerolling.

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-J. Jensen

[This message has been edited by TCHarrison (edited 30 June 2001).]

 

[MT++]

The other problem with I chose systems is the preponderance of combat skills.

I want characters to have "useless" skills like physics, admin or steward

I REALLY hate gun bunnies

Random skills, within the focus of their career ensures that you will have intersting PC's. I have seen too many "Gun Combat 6, Tactics 3 and nada else" types

If you are going to have points based, make all the "useless" (read: non-combat) skills cheaper. Admin 1 per level, Gun Combat 4 per level sort of thing

 

[Gaming Glen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MT++:
The other problem with I chose systems is the preponderance of combat skills.

I want characters to have "useless" skills like physics, admin or steward

I REALLY hate gun bunnies

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's an idea: don't initiate a combat. Plan sessions without combat, just be wary of them starting it when bored in which case make sure you have the authorities around ready to remove the menace to society. There must be other "gun-bunny" NPCs around, also (). Maybe they'll get the hint. If they don't, tell them that a set percentage number of points has to go to non-combat skills, period.

I have to deal with this in my current Champions campaign, but I'm ending it today anyway since another wants to GM. (Hurray!)

 

[TCHarrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MT++:
The other problem with I chose systems is the preponderance of combat skills.

I want characters to have "useless" skills like physics, admin or steward

I REALLY hate gun bunnies

Random skills, within the focus of their career ensures that you will have intersting PC's. I have seen too many "Gun Combat 6, Tactics 3 and nada else" types

If you are going to have points based, make all the "useless" (read: non-combat) skills cheaper. Admin 1 per level, Gun Combat 4 per level sort of thing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Gun bunnies"? Is that derived from Bunnies & Burrows?

Anyway, about combat skills: Most people don't learn any kind of combat except guns (actually, this seems to be a rarely rolled skill in CT).

Three points here, though:

1. I'd wager that most universal systems were designed with fantasy or scifi in mind.

2. Most viable campaign settings are filled with combat. Think about it (can't remember everything off-hand, though):

1900s: World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, constant warfare in the Balkans, Kosovo, Desert Storm, Spanish Civil War, etc.

1800s: Wild West, French Revolution, Napoleanic Era, The Boer War, the Russian pograms, etc.

1500s-1800s: Spanish Conquistadors, American Revolution, wars between England and France, pirates, wars with Islam, etc.

Middle Ages: All-around chaos, fighting and feudalism, etc.

Roman Era: Roman conquests, barbarians, etc.

Pre-Roman Era: Greeks vs. Persians, Greeks vs. Greeks, Babylonian conquests, etc.

And that's jsut the Western World!

Now, these are by not _all_ of the viable campaign settings. There are some non-violent ones, but mostly it remains true that the history of the world is the history of war.

(Surprising myself here that I'm not finished...)
3. There are so many combat skills to put points in! Think aobut the ones in GURPS: Knife, Knife Throwing, Axe, Club, Sling, Black-powdered Weapons, Beam Weapons, Pistols, Rifles, and more!

A good solutions is probably to include few weapons skills. Generalize them. Make three categories of skills: Combat, Physical, and Mental. Make Combat cost more than Physical, which costs more than Mental. Say, x4/x2/x1 spread.

Or limit points spent for all skills, and make it lower for combat.

Or do both.

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Of course, you only need to do this in "sophisticated" roleplaying. In D&D, characters aren't meant to be well-rounded in all manner of crud. "See monster, kill it." And that's still fun to me. Some people believe that this is a better method of temporary escape, which is what roleplaying's really about.

It's a game, after all.

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-J. Jensen