Travel classes

[Hans_vermeylen]

Travel Classes

IMTU, the three canon classes (low, middle, high) are replaced by a (slightly) more developed system:

Staterooms come in three flavors:

• First Class costs 3500 Cr per jump (regardless of jump number) and gets you 8 dTon of living space (about 4 of those are your actual stateroom, the rest being used for lounge, gangways...) This is a luxurious way of traveling, with matching service, used by noble, managers and wealthy people, roughly comparable to real world airplanes First Class.
• Business Class costs 1750 Cr per jump and gets you 4 dTon of living space (2dTon actual stateroom). It's the equivalent of a OTU stateroom and the way most people travel (e.g. businessmen, public servants and military people on a mission, tourists). It's roughly equivalent to real world airplanes Economy Class.
• Economy Class costs 875 Cr per jump and gets you 2 dTon of living space (1dTon actual stateroom). It gets really cramped and service is minimal (think disposable sheets and towels, reheated food and drinks in extra). This class (used by students, families on paid holidays and other people with just enough money to avoid cold sleep) is the equivalent of real world low cost carriers.

Note that all staterooms can be shared (effectively reducing the per person price by half) either with someone you know and travel with or with another random passenger (not all lines allow for the later).

Better staterooms are sometimes offered. This is usually only seen on large liners proposing a couple of prestigious suites in addition to their First Class staterooms. The exact size and configuration (and price) of those suites vary a lot from line to line (even a given ship can have several suites of various size and prices). One thing common to most of those suits is a private lounge (although the guests of a suite usually retain access to the First Class lounge should they enjoy a bit of social interaction).

Unlike in the OTU, staterooms are build for a certain class and cannot be upgraded by providing better food and bigger smiles... Upgrading (or downgrading) a stateroom is possible but require removing (adding) bulkhead and refurnishing the newly made space. Most small starships only have one type of stateroom, lacking the space needed to provide the different level of service matching each class. Larger starships generally have either both First and Business or Economy only, only a few line have experimented with three classes ships, with very moderate success.

Actual class designation vary a great deal between lines: Standard, Basic, Essential, Ivory, Silver, Gold, Noble, Premium, Elite, Prestige are some of the designations encountered. Note that a single designation can be used for different class depending on the line: a given line could provide Business and First under the names Silver and Gold while an other provide exactly the same under the names Gold and Platinum. To add to the confusion, low cost lines providing Economy only often give them impressing designation trying to avoid a low comfort reputation. In the same logic, cold sleep passages are often given idyllic names (e.g. Dream Class), trying to make the prospect of being shipped in a freezer a bit less gritty.
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IMTU - The Blog

 

[Jame]

I like this.

 

[aramis]

I put double occupancy at total 1.4x single occupancy rates IMTU, using

Elite Passage: much like the above, but at KCr16, and 8Td
High Passage: Full service in a 4Td SR for KCr10 (normal)
Mid Passage: Limited Service in a 4Td SR for KCr8 or Full service in a 2Td SR for KCr8
Steerage: Limited service in a 2Td SR for KCr6, full service in a 1Td Bunk
Warm Low: KCr3, limited service in a bunk.
Cold Low: Normal...

 

[tinker123]

why have cold sleep?

(at the risk of sounding a complete dunce) I've often wondered what the point is of low-passage in the OTU.

At sub-light travel, cold sleep is essential as the only way to arrive alive, but that aint Traveller. a jump only takes days (subjective).

If you've got 4dTons of space in your ship, you could spend 500kCr to stick in a stateroom, which earns 8-10kCr per trip with a mid-high passenger. Or you could spend 400kCr to put in 8 low berths, which earn 8kCr per trip if you can fill them with low passengers. No significant difference in running costs.

Ok, the live passengers need feeding for a week, and may be a security risk, but the frozen ones still need a medic to check how many have died, and must create a stack of paperwork when it comes to disposing of the bodies.

Given the significance of the risk (you could quite likely just die - about 1/6 chance per trip), passengers would have to be pretty desperate to choose low passage. The price difference would only motivate someone who had no way of raising 8kCr. You wouldn't look at it as better value, like you might travel 8 times more often, because the chance of actually surviving 8 low passages is less than 1/4.

What compelling argument have I missed?

 

[Hans_vermeylen]

In GURPS Traveller, survival is automatic if the unfreezing procedure is properly supervised (i.e. physician 10+ or electronic operation (medical) 10+). Imperial regulation make someone with one of those skill mandatory on any ship carrying low berths.

Even when done without proper supervision, the passenger only dies on a critical failure health roll. Which for a average human is about 2% chance of death....

 

[aramis]

In most versions, the chance of death is FAR less.

CT was 5+, DM for medical-2 or more is +1, low end (6-) is -1.

MT was FAR more forgiving, and most of the time, failure only resulted in injury.

ANyway, one takes in KCr2 per ton and spends Cr200 per ton on low passages, making Cr1800 per ton
Mid passages bring in KCr8 and cost KCr2, for net KCr6, in four tons, thus making Cr1500 per ton.
High passengers are net KCr8, less share of the steward (about Cr200), for just shy of KCr2 per ton.

 

[savage]

Comfort in the name

Good idea mimicing the modern travel levels. I agree there is a need for large scale suites.

I went for emperor and empress staterooms at 16dt. But I think you have some great ideas and a certain natural progression.
http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/sa...ular-Media-Designs/Intersun_Luxury_Liner.html

 

[ChalkLine]

I've always incorporated cold sleep berths into staterooms in case of misjump.

I really like the above ideas, totally snatched for MTU

 

[Plankowner]

I used the following:

High Passage: 4dtons and 10Kcr, single occupancy, but could be adjoined to another HP stateroom for couples.

Mid Passage: 4dtons and 4Kcr, double occupancy (two single beds that could be pushed together if desired into a double bed)

Low Passage: 4dtons and 1.5Kcr, quadruple occupancy (4 bunks)

Each of the above staterooms had a "day" and "night" configuration with convertable Couch/beds and retracting bunks.

Cold Sleep: Traveller's Low Passage (with reduced failure rates making it a viable choice).

Steward service was adjusted so that they were based on number of staterooms not number of passengers, so First Class got you more attention since it had lower occupancy per stateroom.

 

[Icosahedron]

IMTU I add Premier Passage, using a double stateroom at 12k each, and Steerage, sharing a cabin at 4k each.
A proportion of the cabins are of 'superior quality'. You are unlikely to get enough high passengers to have to place one in a standard cabin, and if a mid passenger gets a superior room, well, he got lucky.

I modified the cold sleep survival in CT by adding +1 per medic level. Survival rate is pretty good if you're going to a decent starport (passengers are not frozen/thawed by the ship's medic, but by the local hospital, then loaded aboard like cargo.) If they are travelling long distance they are simply transferred ship to ship without thawing, so only make make one survival roll per journey.

 

[tinker123]

I modified the cold sleep survival in CT by adding +1 per medic level.

I think that's exactly what bothers me - the CT risk of death is so high, it makes the option pretty undesirable. Survival on 5+ is a 1/6 chance of death, low End & no medic is nearly 1/3 chance of death, good End and a low medic takes it down to 1/12 chance of death. That's still a bit close to russian roulette for my liking, and so i'd wonder how easy it is to find passengers desperate to use it.

Changing the rule for easier survival is another way of saying that the printed rule makes the option unattractive.

passengers are not frozen/thawed by the ship's medic, but by the local hospital, then loaded aboard like cargo.

That's an interesting view. I presume that all the cooling / health-monitor equipment is packaged in some sort of "packing-crate" with the passenger in it, so the fitting-out cost for the cold berths is essentially a storage rack? Maybe with some interfaces in it to supply power the crates and collect the readouts off the berths that have been filled. The crates could have independent power for transfer and for emergencies.

If you follow that approach, then there's no freezing-gear for the crew to use in an emergency. Unless they keep a couple of spare empty crates around. Maybe the fitting-out cost for the low berth includes the crate? Then the rack would start by being full, and the crew would have to pull out an empty crate every time they load a full one aboard. Do they hand over the empty to the starport crew, or stick it in the hold? if they stick it in the hold, can they still use it in an emergency, or do they have to pull one out of the rack first? lots of lovely questions to hassle the players with....

 

[aramis]

I think that's exactly what bothers me - the CT risk of death is so high, it makes the option pretty undesirable. Survival on 5+ is a 1/6 chance of death, low End & no medic is nearly 1/3 chance of death, good End and a low medic takes it down to 1/12 chance of death. That's still a bit close to russian roulette for my liking, and so i'd wonder how easy it is to find passengers desperate to use it.

Which is why I use the MT Routine, End, Medic's Medical. If hasty or unskilled, becomes hazardous. Standard mishaps apply. On a destroyed mishap, victim dies.
so we have a 4+ natural roll for no hazard, merely injured (unless a wimp) on a 3, as you can't break 15 on 2d mishaps; and on a 2, dead 15+ on 3D, or about 8% IIRC.

 

[Icosahedron]

Changing the rule for easier survival is another way of saying that the printed rule makes the option unattractive.

I change most of the rules anyway.

That's an interesting view. I presume that all the cooling / health-monitor equipment is packaged in some sort of "packing-crate" with the passenger in it, so the fitting-out cost for the cold berths is essentially a storage rack? Maybe with some interfaces in it to supply power the crates and collect the readouts off the berths that have been filled. The crates could have independent power for transfer and for emergencies.

If you follow that approach, then there's no freezing-gear for the crew to use in an emergency. Unless they keep a couple of spare empty crates around. Maybe the fitting-out cost for the low berth includes the crate? Then the rack would start by being full, and the crew would have to pull out an empty crate every time they load a full one aboard. Do they hand over the empty to the starport crew, or stick it in the hold? if they stick it in the hold, can they still use it in an emergency, or do they have to pull one out of the rack first? lots of lovely questions to hassle the players with....

I've not pondered over Low Berths for prolonged periods of time, but I imagine that there will be some monitoring equipment and an independent power supply within the unit, (possibly a RTG) and facilities within the storage area (generally a section of the hold) to interface with a number of units, providing ship's power and monitoring in flight. I've also ruled that if life support in the rest of the ship is off and the ambient temperature drops to a few K, then the low berths need very little power input. I don't envisage a fixed number of pigeon-holed berths IMTU, you can add a few more anytime, and the ship's medic can freeze people in an emergency. Yes, you'd need a spare berth to climb into, but that's what ELBs are for. I have a roll that depends on both the freezing and thawing medic skills, so if you are frozen by an alcoholic with five thumbs, you can offset it by getting thawed at a state-of-the-art cryo clinic. And vice versa.
Get frozen by the best medic you can afford - you never know who is going to try to wake you up!

 

[spank]

Low berth--Why?

If you examine them on basis of cost there is no reason to use a low berth, but you also need to look at the odds of filling the berths.
For example you are at a pop-5 world

For high passage you roll 2D6-1D6
I roll 5-3= 2 high passengers=20,000 cr

For middle passage you roll 3D6-2D6
I roll 10-5= 5 mid passengers=40,000 cr

For low passage you roll 3D6-1D6
I roll 10-3=7 low passengers=7,000 cr

you need 8 dtons for the high passesengers=2,500 cr/Dton
you need 20 dtons for the mid passesengers=2,000 cr/Dton
you need 2 dtons for the low passesengers=3,500 cr/Dton*W/1 wasted berth

so low berth is the clear winner in return, and all are better than cargo at 1000 cr/ turn

 

[tinker123]

If you examine them on basis of cost there is no reason to use a low berth, but you also need to look at the odds of filling the berths.

Thanks for pointing out the table for passenger availability. You're right - the table says there are fewer high/mid passengers out there, and many low passengers, so a smart captain will fit out about 7-10 low berths and expect them to be filled most of the time.

So the supply/demand economics of low passage seems to be: captains equip for it because the profit margins are higher, and because there is a constant demand. Passengers want it because - it's cheap and their need to travel is great enough to risk death rather than spend the extra 7k. So I guess it's the far-future equivalent of today's people-smuggling: a few die on the way, but the rest get to make a new life in a different country (although for many it's a new life as slaves to the gangsters who smuggled them).

Works for me, and provides a moral dilemma for the players if they ever stop to think about those frozen bodies as people rather than freight. What are they so desperate to run from? What does their future hold?

Only thing left to puzzle me with that table is that very low pop worlds generate low-passengers rather than high. But I guess that entire planets with a population of 200 rich folk don't need freelance transport - they've all got private yachts.

Thanks.

 

[spank]

If you examine them on basis of cost there is no reason to use a low berth, but you also need to look at the odds of filling the berths.
For example you are at a pop-5 world
Accually I screwed up, I used the emegency low berth numbers for Passengers per Dton it should be

For high passage you roll 2D6-1D6
I roll 5-3= 2 high passengers=20,000 cr

For middle passage you roll 3D6-2D6
I roll 10-5= 5 mid passengers=40,000 cr

For low passage you roll 3D6-1D6
I roll 10-3=7 low passengers=7,000 cr

you need 8 dtons for the high passesengers=2,500 cr/Dton
you need 20 dtons for the mid passesengers=2,000 cr/Dton
you need 4 dtons for the low passesengers=1,750 cr/Dton*W/1 wasted berth

So with this revision you High passage is the winner.

 

[spank]

low berth survival

I thought about it while at work, and the odds on surviving are kind of bad, you might add the provison to roll only if:
--field revival
eg, we have to revive him now the engineer is dead and he's the only one who can fix the drives.
--no medical oversight
eg, left to auto defrost.
--power lost during transit.
You might also additional modifiers or lower the target, If you change your target to 2 and then survial is guarrented with high endurance and with low endurance there is only 2.7% chance of failure.

some ideas I had for modifiers;
+END/3
+1 per medical beyond 2
-2 field revival
-2 per hour of power loss
-2 field Preped

 

[Plankowner]

Another alternate is to give a modifier for TL.

Low Berths come in at TL 8 right?

Give a +1 Survival DM for each TL above that. Figure most units are TL 10 or 11 (Average Imperial) and you build in a +2 to +3 bonus that way. Now it takes extraordinary circumstances for someone to die, but it can still happen.

 

[atpollard]

Consider the passage costs in terms of real world dollars.
Using 1 Credit = 2.5 US Dollars:
High Passage costs $ 25,000 (or 2 months salary at Cr 5000/mo, or 10 months salary at Cr 1000/mo)
Middle Passage costs $ 20,000 (or 1.6 months salary at Cr 5000, or 8 months salary at Cr 1000)
Low Passage costs $ 2,500 (or 1 week salary at Cr 5000, or 1 months salary at Cr 1000)

Many people in third world nations live at a TL 0 to TL 3 (pre-industrial indigenous technology) and earn an average annual wage of less than $1000 (Cr 400/year). For these people, a low passage would require 2.5 years of wages, a middle passage would require 20 years of wages, and a high passage would require 25 years of wages.

No skilled person from an advanced technology world would travel “Low Passage” since all of the risk vs. reward analysis presented in this topic shows that it is a BAD DEAL. For an unskilled laborer, a low passage represents YEARS of savings while a middle passage would require at least half of a lifetime to save up for. Middle passages are simply unaffordable to the very poor and very low tech. The low passage represents a chance at a new and better life.

 

[atpollard]

I roll 5-3= 2 high passengers=20,000 cr
I roll 10-5= 5 mid passengers=40,000 cr
I roll 10-3=7 low passengers=7,000 cr

you need 8 dtons for the high passengers = 2,500 cr/Dton
you need 20 dtons for the mid passengers = 2,000 cr/Dton
you need 4 dtons for the low passengers = 1,750 cr/Dton*W/1 wasted berth

These figures are GROSS revenue, don't forget to subtract the expenses related to food and life support (2000 cr per person) as well as the Steward (6000 cr/month salary & life support) to find NET revenue.

For the high passengers, subtract 500 cr/Dton life support and 375 cr/Dton for the steward (based on 2 high passengers - use 94 cr/Dton if 8 high passengers are carried).

For the mid passengers, subtract 500 cr/Dton life support.

For the low passengers, subtract 200 cr/Dton life support. (100 cr/person IIRC)

high passengers = 2,500 cr - 500 cr - 375 cr = 1,625 cr/Dton.
mid passengers = 2,000 cr - 500 cr = 1,500 cr/Dton.
low passengers = 1,750 cr - 200 cr = 1,550 cr/Dton.

Not really THAT much better than cargo, is it?
And we still havn’t looked at how much those staterooms cost you in monthly bank payments.