TraderRiders

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

For the life of me, I can't remember the sci-fi story that I got this from, but it's still a good idea. Karma props to the author.

You have a small cluster of worlds, between 4 and 8 worlds say. The Linkworlds or the Towers Clusters come to mind. A merchant company takes a page out of naval doctrine and constructs one or two Merchant Lighter Tender(s). A vessel with alot of tonnage, fuel, and a very large jump-drive and a minimal manuver drive. The company then makes 200-ton merchant lighters or shuttles available at a very attractive rate (MUCH cheaper than a Free Trader). The lighters would not be jump capable, but would otherwise have all the features of a free trader. They could carry passengers, mail, and cargo on a set route through the cluster on a given schedule, rendevousing with the tender for jumps.

For the operating company, this would be attractive. Late on your payment? No jump. Skipping becomes a non-issue. They could make the operating costs of the tender back in jump-fees from the TraderRider captains.

For the trader community it would have it's bonuses too. Cheaper to get in business, cheaper to operate with out that pesky jump drive. LOTS more cargo room without all that fuel that J-Drives require. Your vessel could be customized for whatever service you want, for example a 200 ton lighter fitted for passenger only service. Or you could maximize your trading time by mounting a fast manuver drive (great for that last minute deal before you firewall it to meet the tender).

Now, this obviously wouldn't work on a Main, and some sort of deal would have to be made with the SPA about berthing fees, but for relatively low-to-medium traffic clusters of worlds, this could be viable.

What do y'all think?

 

[Tobias]

My first thought was: Neat idea, especially for a regularly scheduled line in a developed area. But there is one flaw: refueling.
It's a simple fact of Traveller that a ship needs huge amounts of fuel for jumping. Now if you have to maneuver in-system anyway to refuel, you might just as well deliver your cargo on your way in.

To make your idea work, you would need a fuel source that's big enough for steady supply to the tender, but small enough that you can jump very close to it. Also, it needs to be close to the main point of traffic in the system, usually the main world. Planets, let alone Gas Giants, are obviously out. Ice Asteroids could fill the bill, but they would have to be moved into place. This would be a major undertaking even for a large corporation.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

The IN uses the BattleRiders themselves as fuellers when a Fleet Fueller is unavailable. Each Rider allocates like 5% of it's tonnage to fuel tankage (over and above it's own requirements) and wilderness refuels prior to engagement if possible. Tactically, they also jump half or two-thirds of their rated capability so there is at least one jump available in the tanks.

Transposing this to a mercantile operation, each lighter could do much the same thing. Further, the company could keep a small station with purification plants and tankage at it's 100 diameter Trojan point with a couple of fuelling shuttles similar to the Azhanti High Lightning shuttles. The IISS does much the same thing with its X-Boat Tenders.

The startup costs for a system like this would be fairly high, but I think they could make the cash back in efficiency and independant operator fees.

Thanks for the input, btw. I thought the idea had attracted no intrest at all.

 

[trader jim]

Well....I like the idea.....Merchant and Traders...will always take a good hard look ant anything that may up the profits!!!!.....for close tight systems this may just work out for some small to medium size shipping lines....Hey fellow Traders a Credit Saved is a Credit Earned!!! I Will kick this one around....Thanx!!!

 

[Falkayn]

I think this is a workable idea. There are issues with keeping the tender refuelled, but given that you would be running set jump routes that is easy to manage around.

IMTU the Julian Protectorate does something similar to deal with a couple of rifts that require Jump-3 to join several mains. The government sponsors the development of a Jump-3 Ferry that enables Jump-1 traders to commute form one main to another without needing to have Jump-3 drives.

The result is (hopefully) an increase in trade with lower costs. I made the Jump-3 Ferry design a very large 1,000,000-ton tender so that the maximum number of ships can be transferred with minimal effort.

 

[womble]

I think the biggest worm in this particular peach is the difficulty of collecting enough traders who all want to be on the same schedule. It'd have to be a pretty busy cluster.

 

[Tanuki]

Originally posted by womble:
I think the biggest worm in this particular peach is the difficulty of collecting enough traders who all want to be on the same schedule. It'd have to be a pretty busy cluster.

Actually it opens up a whole layer of trade possibilities for entrepreneurs, smugglers, speculators, etc. It's a whole lot easier to pick up a used ship's boat/cutter/or even my own winnebago autonomous cutter module (especially used or salvaged) than it is to pick up a starship. It busts trade possibilities wide open.

"Why would any one bother to use a ferry?" you ask... well, lots of people have trucks, vans, or cars and would just as soon not have to buy and maintain a boat, too. So ferrys cross the british channel and the north sea and many other bodies of water quite profitably. The same would hold true for a starship "ferry" for small craft and cargo modules.

I think it's a great idea and I intend to continue using it.

Consider a party of players who have their own cutter and must arrange transport if they want to visit another system. They have plenty of mobility in system and are likely to get to know each system they spend time in much more thoroughly than if they just jump from here to there in a starship.

As a GM it can make things a lot easier to plan for and develop since I have some control over their movement.

 

[Ran Targas]

Basically you all are talking about utilizing huge containerized cargo haulers with 100t+ containers as ferries. Have any been designed?

If the method of attaching the containers to the hull was consistent with standard docking clamps used on starships and launchs, then substituting one for one would be no problem. Then a ship hitching a ride on a J3 hauler would only cost as much as standard freight hauling rates for that run.

If this was feasible (engineering wise) then it would also be a good way for container haulers to balance out or maximize their loads. It seems the economics makes sense, so someone would have probably tried it, especially between high pop clusters.

 

[Ben W Bell]

Say you are using this in a tight cluster of 4 worlds. For each world there are 3 possible destinations making 12 possible trips in total. That means you need at least 12 of those vessels to operate the system on a 1 jump a week system, without allowing any leyway for jumps that take longer or systems failure resulting in the removal of one ship.

Most merchants aren't going to be happy to get to only be able to leave a system once a week, miss it and it's another week, even knowing there is another weeks delay in getting to the destination anyway. To counter this you'd need more ships. For a trip twice weekly you'd need 24 ships, and for a daily departure service you'd require 84 of these ferrys. Sounds like an extremely expensive operation before you get any of the ships to sign on.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Originally posted by womble:
I think the biggest worm in this particular peach is the difficulty of collecting enough traders who all want to be on the same schedule. It'd have to be a pretty busy cluster.

Well, how about the Towers Cluster in Aramis Subsector of the Marches... two high pop worlds, lots of cross border trade with the Commonality of Kedzudh in the Extents, two Industrial worlds, three Agricultural worlds. In a cluster like this, I would think that the TraderRider concept would work quite handily. Especially if the operator were a megacorp, like LSP or Makhidkarun trying to dig into Tukera's operations. I would almost suggest Oberlindes, but it seems to me that, what with the start-up costs of Emissary, the overhead would probably be too high for them.

And a point that I would mention is that the TraderRider concept preserves one thing that a small vocal minority of interstellar merchants deeply want...independance. Sure it's not the same as owning a Free Trader, but it is close, and alot less expensive.

 

[Anthony]

Essentially, the TraderRider concept appears to be a LASH (lighter aboard ship) freighter, only with independently owned lighters instead of everything being owned by a single corporation. It's something that might be possible, but it would have a very low profit margin for the owners of the riders (since, essentially, you're just paying the owner of the tender to transport a ship-sized cargo).

The primary benefit of LASH is improved turnover: it cuts down on the time required to load or discharge cargo. The reason it works, however, is because there are more lighters than space for them on tenders: a tender comes insystem, drops off its lighters, gets refueled, and picks up new lighters, all in about a day, and leaves. The new lighters are generally not the same ships that were on board previously; they'll be picked up by the next tender through the system.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Anthony,
EXACTLY! The operator of the system sells more lighters per system than it can carry to the next. This brings competition and specialization into play. With the need to be first on station to meet the tender for the next jump, much of the flavor of a free trader campaign will still be preserved.

Further, and I had not thought of this, what if the operator of the tender was in fact a cluster government? It would be a great way to move mail and personnel from one system to another, and is lower in overhead to keep such clusters in communication. Rather than having to maintain 15 jump drives for it's couriers or x-boats and their tenders, PLUS all the commercial traffic, it could maintain 2 jump drives (for probably double cost) and still keep the wheels of civilization turning....

 

[Anthony]

Um.. there won't be a mad dash for space when a tender shows up, unless something goes badly wrong. Tenders will have very regular schedules (probably on the order of 'jump every 8 days'), and you'll just contract ahead of time for delivery on a particular date. Probably substantially (months) ahead of time, if you want the lowest rates and guaranteed service.

Running the tender is just a form of bulk freight transport (in this case, cargo tenders). Bulk freight transport is all about consistency and streamlined operation.

Running a lighter will pretty much work like any other cargo transport system that follows regular and reliable routes. It will probably be roughly as exciting as working as a cargo factor and running a warehouse for a shipping company.

 

[trader jim]

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!!....O'Flynn, you are on to something New in Traveller, new idea and new concept, think you should get "credit" for it!!!
sure it would work...real possiabilitys!!!

there you get a bunch of smileys !!!

 

[trader jim]

and another star!!!!

 

[RabidVargr]

I don't like it. We can handle 2 or 3 at a time, but 8 ships at once? Makes piracy too dificult. Bad Idea...



RV

(actually a really good one, just bad for my line of work)

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Originally posted by RabidVargr:
I don't like it. We can handle 2 or 3 at a time, but 8 ships at once? Makes piracy too dificult. Bad Idea...



RV

(actually a really good one, just bad for my line of work)

Critic Puppy! No biscuit!

As an aside, in my T20 game I play an Irilitok Vargr ex-Marine Merchant by name of Khadzerz, who really didn't start out to be a corsair...that's just how it TURNED out.
(That's my story and I'm stickin' to it)

 

[Ben W Bell]

But would it really be economically viable? The trader captain has paid for his cargo and fuel, then he has to pay to have his ship transported to the next system. The rider carrier he is paying is carrying his ship as cargo, and presumably will want to make a profit on it so will charge costs plus a nice profit. Now in Traveller the costs of moving starships is practically a straight line as you go up the tonnages, ie. a 400ton starship costs twice as much to jump around as an equivalent 200ton starship. This means you are paying these costs to someone else who also adds their profit margin on top.

This would probably reduce the profit margins on the traders as they would be paying much much more per jump than their jump capable cousins. True they have more cargo space but I believe that advantage would be taken away by the charges from the tender. This also means the traders are spending around 60% of their time in someone elses hands and I'd imagine the captains of most traders cherish their freedom too much for it to catch on in a big way. How do you smuggle as easily? The tender will probably check the cargo as they don't want to be transporting illegal goods.

 

[womble]

Tanuki said:

"Why would any one bother to use a ferry?" you ask... well, lots of people have trucks, vans, or cars and would just as soon not have to buy and maintain a boat, too. So ferrys cross the british channel and the north sea and many other bodies of water quite profitably. The same would hold true for a starship "ferry" for small craft and cargo modules.

Most terrestrial ferries take less than a day to reach their destination, meaning that for a daily service they only need to have two vessels on the route. For a daily service via week-long jump you need 7 times as many (a conservative estimate).

Lots of people on Earth have land vehicles. Lots of people do not own spaceworthy vessels in most TUs. The training requirements alone would preculde "family" spaceships. In the Third World, most ferry passengers are foot passengers.

Gandiirsi O'Flynn wrote:

And a point that I would mention is that the TraderRider concept preserves one thing that a small vocal minority of interstellar merchants deeply want...independance. Sure it's not the same as owning a Free Trader, but it is close, and alot less expensive.

"Darn straight it's not the same as owning a Free Trader! Might as well sell your skills to a Mgacorp [spit]..."

The concept is similar to the "Heighliner" from the Dune Universe. These were huge because Navigators were rare. Falkayn's giant J-3 ferries (to do something that standard merchies can't do) work. Trying to replace the Free Trader/Far Trader doesn't, really IMO. The cost (both to run and to buy hull space) per dT of cargo space increases, the flexibility decreases. The risks are concentrated in one place, making a juicy target for terrorism or "robust competitive practices" and in the locales where there might be enough regular small lot independent cargo haulers to make it economically viable, the increased protection against opportunist pirates is a moot point because there's already going to be enough enforcement presence.

If you're going to use them, though, one political aspect is that they're not very much different from a Battle Carrier and if a system were to build itself a fleet of 200Tish SDBs, they could hire a couple of Tukera (or whoever) "TraderCarriers" to drop them in on unliked neighbours... Instant offensive interstellar warfare capability.

 

[Ran Targas]

Another point of flexibility; most high pop worlds would have several hundred landing areas (the U.S. alone has 14,000 airports and 100+ sea ports) where light cargo and passengers could be delivered. VTOL/AGrav technology lets almost any parking lot become a landing pit. This doesn't include the high, corporate, private, or military ports, outposts on other planets, etc. all in one high pop system.

Given the huge number of possible destinations in a high pop system, ferrying small craft (<200t) between systems could definitely be worth it; particularly with high value/low volume cargos like luxuries or technology.