Too Much of a Good Thing

[Emperor Cleon]

I have a comment to make that will undoubtedly be disliked by most of the board members, but I have to get it off my chest.
I see that there will now be an "official" D20 version of Traveller published. This will be added to GURPS Traveller, T5, and the Classic Traveller reprints as yet another version for us to spend our money on. My question; Why?
Of course, the answer is to make money. FFE and SJG and the others are businesses, so naturally they need to make money. No arguement there. But who is going to buy all these different versions of the same game? A few of us grognards, yes, but not the average gamer.He/she is going to buy the version that suits him/her and ignore the rest. The result? None of the versions will sell enough to support themselves. They'll all end up going out of print (like MegaTraveller, T4, and Traveller TNE).
Now, this is only my opinion, and I'm no businessman. But I can't see myself buying all that stuff.
Here's what *I* think would be best: Develop ONE set of Traveller rules, then license the other companies to produce support materiel, like FASA, DGP, Gamelords, etc. did for Classic Traveller years ago. Opinions?

By the way... I'm a CT gamer tried and true. I'll probably never buy T5, GURPS Traveller, TravellerD20 or any other new version. I see no need in fixing something that isn't broke. But I'd hate to see all these new versions go he way of T4, which is what I fear will happen when they all start competing with each other.

By the way, I changed by user name from Valdamir. Although this user name is new, I've been reading allthe posts here since the beginning in Feb.




[This message has been edited by Emperor Cleon (edited 13 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Emperor Cleon (edited 13 May 2001).]

 

[DrSkull]

Unlike almost any other game system I've run across, however, most Traveller stuff is very easily adaptable across rules sets. I know I used plenty of CT stuff in MT and T4 with little difficulty. The only big exception is starships, but t20 will be using High Guard anyway.

In my next campaign, for example, I was planning to use T4 character generation, but Striker for combat and High Guard for ships. I by GURPS material, but never intend to actually play GURPS (Star Mercs for example had a lot of useful adventure seeds and useful info for administering Merc units that's good no matter what version you play)

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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[halofgazal]

I do not think that you are going to have to wory about there being too many versions of Traveller.

1) T5: Forget it. There is no way that this game will ever see the light of day. All you have to do is read through the various posts on the T5 forum and see that no new version of Traveller can satisfy any more than a small segment of current Traveller fans. Some fans want a D20 or D10 based task system, some simply want a T4 type system without half dice, some prefer the BITS system for Classic Traveller, and others want to modify the DGP task system used in MegaTraveller. Marc Miller's willingness to go along with D20 Traveller clearly shows that he has given up on T5.

2) GURPs Traveller. This appears to be the only version of Traveller in the local gaming stores. However, if D20 Traveller is successful, the GURPs license will probably be allowed to expire in December 2002.

I don't normally edit other people's messages but this statement is nothing more than a rumor with NO basis in fact. While the SJG license may be set to expire in 2002 this in no way means it will not renewed by Marc. I hasten to add that I talk to Marc on a regular basis, as does Loren and I think I can say that neither of us has heard anything remotely close to this statement.

Hunter

3) Classic Traveller. None of the local gaming stores that I visit stock this game. Therefore, it seems to be an internet or catalog order only product. This product can continue to be sold to veteran Traveller players without being any threat to the D20 Traveller system.

The only way that Traveller can survive as a viable commercial proposition is if it can attract new players. Tapping into the D20 system is an easy way to do this.



[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 23 May 2001).]

 

[AndreaV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by halofgazal:
2) GURPs Traveller. This appears to be the only version of Traveller in the local gaming stores. However, if D20 Traveller is successful, the GURPs license will probably be allowed to expire in December 2002.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? GT and T20 look to me to appeal to two different markets.

 

[halofgazal]

I do not believe that the Traveller market is big enough to support more than one truely active system. Classic Traveller (as I stated in my previous post) does not threaten the new version of Traveller. However, it is precisely because GURPS Traveller has viability that it is doomed. If the designers believed that they could attract new players by agressivley pushing GURPS Traveller, they would. Clearly they believe that something different is necessary to attract new players. Therefore, D20 is the future of Traveller.

The simple fact is that there is really only one Traveller "market," and that will be dominated by whichever product that the designers push the hardest. To divide the market between several competing systems is commercial stupidity. I cannot see Mr. Miller and Hunter being that stupid.

 

[hunter]

I wouldn't write GURPS Traveller off that easily. Its a good system with great material supporting it. I don't see why they would not continue to draw players with it who might prefer the GURPS rules system.

Hunter

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
I wouldn't write GURPS Traveller off that easily. Its a good system with great material supporting it. I don't see why they would not continue to draw players with it who might prefer the GURPS rules system.

Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When GT first came out, most of my die hard MT fan friends got it. Only one has used it, and then only to lure GURPS-nuts away from GURPS when he points out the problems he has adapting to GT. The people I see playing GT are die-hard GURPS fans, not so much converts. Before I left the TML, the converts weren't new for the most part... many had been using GURPS to run Trav for a while... and had fessed up to that on-list. (I still have the 96 TML/XML survey results on a floppy somewhere... to bad I have an iMac now....)

But GT had a draw built in- the absolute dearth of decent scifi settinngs for GURPS. (Terradyne and Commonwealth lacked support.) It's brought many former GURPS player back to GURPS... and drawn a new generation of players to GURPS.

D20 has scads of players, and a promise of rifts-like integrations... And it has one of the biggest bestiaries of any current system (2 decent hardcovers, and a softcover) with more to come. Many will try T20. Some will stick with it. Some will convert to T5 when it comes out. Some will go to CT or MT with extant traveller groups. It will get the high-school crowd thinking Traveller. (I can take a traveller book into a school and get ignored. A D&D book gets noticed. A D20 logo gets noticed. So does anyhing by WWG... but not many others.)

T5, should it come out, will be financed on the back of GT. Good for Marc. It might also be financed in part by T20. Great. Some will convert, some won't. Just like one group I used to game with still plays LBB's in a not-quite-canon universe, using Starfire for ship designs.

And, much as I dislike GT, I hope it stays in print long enough to finance a wonderful T5. Until I see it, I'll reserve judgement on T20... but I WILL buy it.


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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[Darium]

I have tried many times to introduce Traveller to my friends. One common compliant is that they liked the universe but didn't like the system. Some played D&D and others played GURPS as well as other systems. Its possible now to appeal to any group using the same background. What other game can do that? Traveller is now distinct from all oather systems; unlike D20 where one system rules many backgrounds the oposite is true.

 

[Dedthom]

I agree with Darium, GT while not really the CT universe does get GURPS players and when Td20 I hope it is good enough to want to play with my DND3 group. To me the CT system is great, but a bit clunky by modern standards. The Traveller universe is the best part of the game and if they can keep that and the CT "feel", then any system will work. I don't like GT because I don't like Gurps, thats all.

 

[hunter]

To quell this supposition that the SJG Traveller license will not be renewed I post the following from Loren at the JTAS website:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How's this for authoritative: I just got off the phone with Marc. He said:

1) The GURPS Traveller license is a valuable part of Traveller.

2) The original agreement was negotiated between Steve and Marc personally.

3) Steve has met or exceeded EVERY condition Marc asked of him.

Marc has no plans not to renew, and unless I screw up real bad, that will not change.

You can quote me.

Loren Wiseman
Editor, JTAS
lkw@io.com
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if you hear anything to the contrary, it's bull%$@#...

Hunter


[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 23 May 2001).]

 

[Christopher Jennings]

I am glad to hear that GT will most likely continue after 2002. While I do not run/play GURPS (it never clicked with me for some reason) I have always enjoyed the supliments that have been put out for the system. They are usually well thought out and are quite usefull as sources for almost any system. True it would never occure to me to play a Homo Erectus PC ( quite possible with the "Ice-Age suppliment).