TL=8 Batteries

[Spinward Flow]

CT Striker 4, p10 Battery Table
TL=8 . 1.25 megawatt-seconds per kg, 1 liter per kg

1,250,000 watt-seconds per kg / 3600 seconds = 347.222 watt-hours per kg

24M Technologies is claiming (today) that they have developed a semi-solid state battery which at the pack level (not cell level) has an energy density of ... ~350 watt-hours per kilogram ... that is going into production.

I learned about this development in commercialized battery technology from The Electric Viking (youtube channel link).

As The Electric Viking says ... at this energy density (350+ watt-hours/kg) electric aviation becomes not only feasible in engineering terms, but also practical in economic terms.

And just think, Solomani R&D is only STARTING to develop battery technology in earnest ... now ... meaning the technology is nowhere near "perfected" or even "fully developed" (and mature) yet.

Battery technologies have a LOT of cost and learning curve yet to go before they plateau, pending further tech level advancements.

 

[Condottiere]

Keeping our options, open.

Cheap and clean energy generation, even if you have to compromise with internal combustion, to leverage optimum efficiency.

Long term storage.

 

[whartung]

The question is what are the "physics" problems that are preventing higher battery density?

The real benefit of this kind of battery is not that it can go 1000 miles, it's that you can go 330 miles with 1/3rd less battery in the car. Less weight, better dynamics, "maybe" lower cost.

Weight is a real issue with modern electric vehicles.

 

[mike wightman]

That and the batteries spontaneously catching fire...

 

[Commander Truestar]

Ironically, I spent an hour interviewing a scientist at the Edison NJ labs of EOS.
They are working to replace Lithium Ion batteries with a brand new solution based on older Zinc technology
Their batteries out perform LI-batteries and "Do Not Have" the Anode/Cathode pairing!!!

If I take the position within the company, I expect to learn a great deal more about the future of batteries on modern-day Terra

 

[whartung]

Their batteries out perform LI-batteries and "Do Not Have" the Anode/Cathode pairing!!!

What does that mean?

 

[Commander Truestar]

What does that mean?

What that means is, they provide more power for a given battery size than LI Batteries.
As far as not having an Anode/Cathode pairing, this should be obvious if you look at the basic architecture of any standard dry cell battery(A, AA, C, D...)

Sadly, I was notified I did not get the job, so what I can provide on details is limited.

 

[whartung]

As far as not having an Anode/Cathode pairing,

Why would not having Anode/Cathode pairing be !!! worthy?

 

[Commander Truestar]

Why would not having Anode/Cathode pairing be !!! worthy?

Because, in general, all man-portable batteries have an architecture described as a cathode(positive plate) and anode(negative plate) separated by a "Fabric" and immersed in an Electrolyte."

Not designed that way from the start is inventive.

 

[Commander Truestar]

I should add, form what I've learned, that their Electrolyte is significantly different from standard short-term Zinc-based batteries - while still using Zinc. And, they have been achieving energy storage and provision results that out-perform Lithium-Ion batteries "without" the fire hazard.

Given how hard it is to find and mine Lithium on modern day Terra means that is an expensive ingredient, where large deposits of Zinc can be found anywhere....

So, once their battery design is able to go mainstream, costs will drop (for manufacturers and consumers), Performance will rise, and trade agreements enforced by the desperate need to acquire lithium will be relieved....not to mention, the "explosive nature" of the Lith-Ion battery will be a thing of the past.

I really am disappointed I didn't get the position

And yes, it is "in the field" in industrial-sized use for the last seven years based on what I was able to educate myself on. So, this is not an aspirational "I hope it works" program. They are commercially active and have been.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Given how hard it is to find and mine Lithium on modern day Terra means that is an expensive ingredient, where large deposits of Zinc can be found anywhere....

If you want technology that is "dirt cheap" ... it's a good idea to start with dirt ...

 

[Commander Truestar]

If you want technology that is "dirt cheap" ... it's a good idea to start with dirt ...

Ummm, OK....
Dirt can't store or transmit usable electric charges....

So, I think I will more concentrate on programs which reduce costs to every step of the production and sales chain while providing the user better performance....

I regret you do not appear to understand the value of the breakthrough, but not everyone will.

good luck plugging your devices into dirt

 

[Spinward Flow]

good luck plugging your devices into dirt

Oh there are ways ...

 

[Kakistocrat]

Given how hard it is to find and mine Lithium on modern day Terra means that is an expensive ingredient, where large deposits of Zinc can be found anywhere…

There’s plenty of lithium in the brine under the Salar de Uyuni salt flat in Bolivia, which is pumped out into evaporation pools, but the evaporation takes several months, and requires further processing to remove the magnesium and potassium that was also in the brine. Zinc would certainly be far less expensive per ton than lithium.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Sadly, I was notified I did not get the job,

Drat. Their loss.

 

[Badenov]

How can you not have both an anode and cathode? Monopole magnets aren't available until we have Superstring Theory and Silksteel Alloys. Wait, wrong universe.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Sadly, I was notified I did not get the job, so what I can provide on details is limited.

Since you seem to have expertise relevant to battery technology companies, I figure that this rumor out of Tesla concerning asymmetric lamination of 4680 cells may be of professional interest to you in some form or fashion (and the same goes for anyone else reading these forums).

 

[Commander Truestar]

How can you not have both an anode and cathode? Monopole magnets aren't available until we have Superstring Theory and Silksteel Alloys. Wait, wrong universe.

EXACTLY!!!
This is one of many reasons I wanted to get a job with this lab....

So, I can only report they do not use the anode and cathode.
I am also sorry others don't realize the value of this breakthrough.

 

[whartung]

Dunno if this was linked earlier:

Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy—and No Anode

New coating helps solid electrolyte cells outpace traditional lithium ions

spectrum.ieee.org

It sorta explains it, but I'm still not sure how or why the battery has no anode.

 

[Kakistocrat]

I’m still not sure how or why the battery has no anode.

A conventional battery has a permanent anode. An anode-free battery has a current collector instead, and as the battery is charging, (usually) lithium is electroplated onto the current collector; when the charging is complete, the lithium on the current collector acts as the battery’s anode. In essence, an anode-free battery could be more accurately described as a permanent-anode-free battery.