OTU Only: Theobromine poisoning

[mike wightman]

It is the viscousness I am trying to highlight - too many people think of vargr as a joke.

 

[Drakon]

It is the viscousness I am trying to highlight - too many people think of vargr as a joke.

I don't think of the Vargr as a joke. Heck, looking at what they do after the Imperium leave, that is no joke.

I do not want to injure or harm innocent vargrs, on either side of the border. So a lot of the bioweapons being discussed are not a viable option. Again the reason why biological weapons are illegal via the Geneva convention is that they cannot be aimed effectively. Too many innocent people (and yes, vargrs are people too) will get harmed that way.

Indiscriminate killing would send the wrong message. Letting Lemish turn into a species war between the vargr and humans would not be in anyone's best interest.

However, the captains of the attacking ship and any command authority over those ships, well, they are not innocent. They will be hunted down and destroyed.

It says that Lemish was attacked to send a message to the other systems in the sector. I plan on sending a reply, a very strong reply. The idea of "weaponized chocolate" does have an appeal to myself and the baroness.

 

[Drakon]

Why does this thread cause me to imagine a specialist unit of the Lemish Royal Marines?

Tasked with handling operations of vengeance and retribution against non-Imperial Vargr their standard equipment consists of TL-12 body armor decorated with the Baronial crest of Lemish and a rolled up newspaper. The motto for their unit states "Non! Malum Canis! Malum Malum Canis!"

This is why I can't have anything to drink while reading the forums here.

 

[aramis]

While Vargr are not descended from dogs they aren't anything like Crinos form Garou, either. Your typical Vargr is just a hair's breadth over 5' tall and a little bit over 130 lbs (Alien Module 3, pg. 2). While it is true that dire wolves were larger than regular wolves they weren't that much larger and regular wolves are significantly smaller than modern people. Dire wolves typically ranged from 50-80 kg, so on the large end of the scale they were only the size of an average modern day man.

In short, while they lived during the period of megafauna there was nothing truly 'mega' about them and the images that people have of pony sized dire wolves is just Hollywood hyperbole.

Looking at wikipedia (and this one is reasonably sourced), 50-79kg, 1.5m long.

The various science shows portray them as 75-100cm at the haunch.

Comparing to the gray wolves (35-39 kg, 1.1m long, 70-100cm at the haunch), dire wolves were considerably larger.

Vargr are definitely in the same range as the dire wolves.

 

[Timerover51]

I do not want to injure or harm innocent vargrs, on either side of the border. So a lot of the bioweapons being discussed are not a viable option. Again the reason why biological weapons are illegal via the Geneva convention is that they cannot be aimed effectively. Too many innocent people (and yes, vargrs are people too) will get harmed that way.

The Geneva Convention covers primarily the treatment of prisoners of war, and has nothing to say about biological weapons, nor chemical agents either. I would recommend you read up on Japanese Unit 731 and some of their activities, including using China as a biological warfare testing area. The Japanese also tested a wide range of chemical agents in China. You might also wish to read up on British work with Anthrax during World War 2.

The conventions that covered weapon use occurred at the Hague in the Netherlands prior to World War 1, and were pretty much tossed out of the window during World War 1. World War 2 effectively finished them off.

The following quote comes from the Chemical Warfare Service WW2 official history.

The comprehensive report of September 1945 prepared by the BW team with the ALSOS Mission revealed that BW research in Germany had been aimed at devising defensive measures against possible Allied use of biological agents and specifically against the sabotage efforts of guerrilla fighters that menaced the German Army in Poland and Russia. Among the biological agents reportedly used by guerillas against German troops in the Eastern theater were typhoid bacilli, botulinum toxin, typhus, dysentery, glanders, cholera, anthrax, and paratyphoid.

You might also want to read up on the biological warfare waged against invasive rats and cats on some of the Sub-Arctic islands. Feline Leukemia Virus has been used quite effectively on cats. Rats have proved to be a bit tougher (Surprise, Surprise).

 

[esampson]

Looking at wikipedia (and this one is reasonably sourced), 50-79kg, 1.5m long.

The various science shows portray them as 75-100cm at the haunch.

Comparing to the gray wolves (35-39 kg, 1.1m long, 70-100cm at the haunch), dire wolves were considerably larger.

Vargr are definitely in the same range as the dire wolves.

Eurasian wolves (canis lupus lupus) are a bit larger than that. It isn't uncommon for them to get up to 50 kg (though that is outside of the average range) and considerably larger ones have been reported.

The real point, though, was less what the size of the average wolf is and more that dire wolves weren't the size of an adult moose as fiction often likes to portray them.

 

[esampson]

It is the viscousness I am trying to highlight - too many people think of vargr as a joke.

Well, those people might only be thinking of little yappy dogs. Even large domestic dogs can be fairly vicious if ungoverned (or if trained to be vicious). It's just that the occurrence of domestic dogs being dangerous tends to be relatively low since most dogs don't see a real chance of becoming 'alpha' due to the significant size advantage humans have over them (in addition to just generally being larger than most 'large' breeds the fact that we walk on two legs make us tower over them) and the fact that on average they feel they are in very good surroundings (always plenty of food so there's no reason to challenge the 'alpha').

Additionally we tend to take dogs that are 'too dominant' and take extra steps to avoid giving them the opportunity to harm people (keeping them locked up, posting warning signs, etc.). Even with all of that Wikipedia reports about 30 fatal dog attacks last year just in North America.

Of course none of that (or even the fact that they are descended from dire wolves and not dogs) mean that Vargr would automatically be more vicious than people. If you look at some of our closest relatives, the chimpanzees, they can explode into violence that will make your average wolf pack look almost like a model of cooperation and restraint.

None of which should be taken as meaning that Vargr are jokes or shouldn't be vicious or should be more vicious or anything else. Just saying that they probably do have enormous amounts of genetic hardwiring for pack behavior, fighting one another for dominance, and acting highly opportunistically on occasion.

Then again, so do humans.

 

[rancke]

It is the viscousness I am trying to highlight - too many people think of vargr as a joke.

Oh, I'm sure some Vargr can be almost as vicious as humans.


Hans