OTU Only: Theobromine poisoning

[Drakon]

Are Vargrs subject to Theobromine poisoning like terrestrial canines?

(its the stuff in chocolate that dogs cannot metabolize, and can even be deadly)

 

[Timerover51]

I would say "Yes". I doubt very much if any of the genetic modifications done would have effected something like that.

 

[Drakon]

Muhahahaha!! If we're right...

Now I know how to revenge the Vargr for attacking Lemish.

"Even small amounts of chocolate can cause vomiting and diarrhea in dogs. Truly toxic amounts can induce hyperactivity, tremors, high blood pressure, a rapid heart rate, seizures, respiratory failure, and cardiac arrest."

"So 20 ounces of milk chocolate, 10 ounces of semi-sweet chocolate, and just 2.25 ounces of baking chocolate could potentially kill a 22-pound dog,"

Hmmm.. I wonder if there is a Vargr subculture that uses chocolate the way some humans use crack or meth.

 

[selunatic2397]

Now I have an image of a vargr dealer with a trenchcoat full of m&ms and hershey kisses skulking about in a shadowy alley...heehee!

 

[Timerover51]

Given that the cocoa plant is a New World species, there would have been no way for the Ancients to have any idea as to the effects of chocolate on wolves. Oddly enough, while there is evidence of Ice Age coyotes and Dire Wolves, the true Timber or Grey Wolf does not show up for quite a while.

 

[Lycanorukke]

Muhahahaha!! If we're right...
"Even small amounts of chocolate can cause vomiting and diarrhea in dogs. Truly toxic amounts can induce hyperactivity, tremors, high blood pressure, a rapid heart rate, seizures, respiratory failure, and cardiac arrest."

Plenty more though...

Onions/Garlic: Wrecks red blood cells in canines. Makes them light headed, dizzy and lethargic. Vargr don't do goulash and probably hate Italian cooking.

Grapes and raisins: Destroys the kidneys.

Alcohol: Canines are _very_ sensitive to alcohol. Even a little bit can have them totally plastered (watch a fox who has eaten some partially fermented apples). They are literally "two-tin-screamers".

Hmmm.. I wonder if there is a Vargr subculture that uses chocolate the way some humans use crack or meth.

Artifical sweetners (Xylitol). Ingestion of xylitol can lead to a rapid and severe drop in blood sugar levels. Dogs may develop disorientation and seizures within 30 minutes of ingesting xylitol-containing products, or signs may be delayed for several hours.

So in addition to illegal choclate bars, Vargr junkies steal the little satchels of sweetners from coffee shops.

 

[Drakon]

Now I have an image of a vargr dealer with a trenchcoat full of m&ms and hershey kisses skulking about in a shadowy alley...heehee!

Funny enough, according to one source, reeses pieces do not have theobromine or caffeine. Reeses peanut butter cups have some, but pieces do not.

Hmmm Theobroma cacao are evergreens native to deep tropical regions of central and south america. Not sure we have a region on Lemish with adequet climate. Perhaps a hothouse plant? The other planets have not been fleshed out yet, but I fear none of the planets would have the proper climate.

Theobroma= Food of the gods in greek.

The baroness says this plan appeals to her on a number of levels:devil:

 

[Timerover51]

The area on the Equator between Masus and Lunine might be suitable, if we can figure out if that is the side away from the gas giant.

 

[Lycanorukke]

Hmmm Theobroma cacao are evergreens native to deep tropical regions of central and south america. Not sure we have a region on Lemish with adequet climate. Perhaps a hothouse plant? The other planets have not been fleshed out yet,

I assume you want the actual plant (or specifically its product ) and not just the Theobromine?

If you just want the chemical, have something like a 'black smoker' on the ocean floor which hosts bacteria which crank out theobromine from the organic mix from the vent. Or if the ocean floor is no good, have a geyeser range like yellowstone with odd bacteria.

As for the result with all the goodies - theobromine, phenethylamine, caffeine, gallic acid, etc well you would need organic machinery beyond bacteria of some sort. So no choclate geyeser.

 

[Drakon]

As a point of reference, the gas giant, Vangon, is directly above a point on the equator, just above the M in Masus, on the western or far side of the Peaks of Terpsicord. The whole of the Merrian Sea and Central Lemish are underneath Vangon's light.

Most of the central terrian is temperate forest, that might work.

 

[Drakon]

I assume you want the actual plant (or specifically its product ) and not just the Theobromine?

I am looking for a plant. After discussing the subject with the baroness, she likes the idea of importing chocolate plants. The fact that it might be a Vargr toxin is icing on the cake.

She has many ideas for profitable ventures.

 

[Lycanorukke]

I am looking for a plant. After discussing the subject with the baroness, she likes the idea of importing chocolate plants. The fact that it might be a Vargr toxin is icing on the cake.

She has many ideas for profitable ventures.

Hmmm *thinks*

Okay stealing ideas from TTA, my Liiri design, and the commands of her grace the Baroness.

Plants: Instead of chlorphyll A+B ('ordinary chlorophyll') substitue for chlorophyll-f (functions with red and near IR light). So now you have a plant which can function in a M class enviroment. Why did they geneer the plant? Ever seen a scientists without their coffee? Or more serioulsy the soil mix was right.

M class primary (I think this is right for Lemish): M class stars are 'cranky stars'. They tend to flare a bit and be covered in sunspots.

Chocolate: Ordinary chocolate can be made, but under certain circumstances things are good. If the planet is in the right place at the right time, and the M star flares at the right time the plants get a energy boost. End result - super yummy chocolate.

Due to the flare, you also get intense auroae (assuming the planet has a magnetic field). So slap the label of 'Super Yummy Auroae Chocolate' on the stuff and every noble for 20 ly will want some to be seen chic.

Also as food of the gods, Aurora was a goddess of dawn IIRC.

On edit: More ideas and refinement thought of, but wont tell unless my further rambling speculation is asked for

 

[Vladika]

You're all CAT people!

 

[Timerover51]

You're all CAT people!

Hmm, how did you guess? I do own three, or they own me, not sure which. Probably the most accurate way of putting it is that they deign to co-habit with me and my family.

 

[Lycanorukke]

You're all CAT people!

Only if said cats provide nourishment and entertainment for my GS dogs. :devil:

 

[BlackBat242]

You're all CAT people!

Felines also suffer toxic reactions to Methylxanthines-chocolate and caffeine.

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxcat/toxcat.html#mx

Methlyzanthines include caffeine, theobromine, and theophylline. These are found in coffee, tea, stimulants, medications, and chocolate. Some people do not know the dangers of feeding their cats chocolate, or the cat may get into it if it is left out where they can get to it. A lethal dose varies from 100-300 mg/kg.

Signs: Clinical signs develop within one to fours hours after ingestion and include vomiting, diarrhea, polyuria, weakness, hyperexcitability, tremors, seizures, and coma. Secondary pancreatitis amy develop in some animals. Death results from seizures or cardiac arrhythmias.

Treatment: Treatment includes the administration of emetic agents followed by activated charcoal and a cathartic if exposure was within the last two hours. Since methylxanthines may undergo enterohepatic recycling, activated charcoal should be administered every 3-6 hour until cat is asymptomatic. Diazepam or phonobarbitol may be used to control seizures. Fluid therapy may be indicated, but steroids should be avoided because they reduce urinary excretion of methylxanthines. The prognosis for a full recovery is generally good with appropriate therapy.

 

[mike wightman]

Did you realise that Vilani and Zhodani adults wouldn't be able to metabolise cow milk?

The mutation that allows that feat has only existed in humans of european origin or genetic hybridisation for the last 5-10,000 years or so.

 

[Drakon]

You're all CAT people!

My only beef against the Vargr is the fact they attacked my planet after the Imperial fleet leaves. At least according the DPG histories that I have found on the net.

The head of the baron's huskaleers is a Vargr. But he knows enough to stay away from chocolate. (diarrhea and vomiting are not as much fun as they look)

You come in and destroy my planet, bomb my cities and kill a bunch of folks I am responsible for, yeah, that makes me a bit less sympathetic if non-imperial vargrs get strung out on a poison.

 

[mike wightman]

I have owned many dogs over the years. They have all eaten chocolate, not one has died or suffered any health problems ever related to chocolate consumption.

I think the effects on dogs are a bit overstated, and the chance of harming many Vargr with the odd chocolate bar is slim to none. Or possibly as often as an ecstasy related death in humans...

 

[Drakon]

Hmmm *thinks*

Okay stealing ideas from TTA, my Liiri design, and the commands of her grace the Baroness.

Plants: Instead of chlorphyll A+B ('ordinary chlorophyll') substitue for chlorophyll-f (functions with red and near IR light). So now you have a plant which can function in a M class enviroment. Why did they geneer the plant? Ever seen a scientists without their coffee? Or more serioulsy the soil mix was right.

M class primary (I think this is right for Lemish): M class stars are 'cranky stars'. They tend to flare a bit and be covered in sunspots.

Chocolate: Ordinary chocolate can be made, but under certain circumstances things are good. If the planet is in the right place at the right time, and the M star flares at the right time the plants get a energy boost. End result - super yummy chocolate.

Due to the flare, you also get intense auroae (assuming the planet has a magnetic field). So slap the label of 'Super Yummy Auroae Chocolate' on the stuff and every noble for 20 ly will want some to be seen chic.

Also as food of the gods, Aurora was a goddess of dawn IIRC.

On edit: More ideas and refinement thought of, but wont tell unless my further rambling speculation is asked for

Consider your ramblings asked for.

Ishan, the main star is M1V, Ninago, the second star in Lemish's system is M2V. I still need to work out whether Lemish has a magnetic field of its own, but Lemish does orbit a gas giant, Vangon, which certainly does have a large magnetic field.

Solar flares might be problematic, considering the tight habitable zone, which means Vangon and Lemish are within .2 AUs of Ishan.

What color is Chlorophyll F?