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The Vilani -- biological quirks unique to them?

I don't think I have seen this addressed in Traveller --at least not CT or Mega-Deth Traveller but how are the Vilani physically different from Solomani, Zhodani or even Syleans?

Was this ever addressed in any supplement?

Was there any indication that they were transplanted Persians or Babylonians?
 
Considering that they were moved about 300,000 years before any kind of human civilisation on Earth, I think it's safe to say that they weren't Persians or Babylonians - at least culturally. They may well have been moved from that area though, but given that they've always been portrayed as white-skinned caucasians I doubt this is the case (in fact, a lot of the transplanted human races seem to be caucasian in origin).

Also bear in mind that really, 300,000 years ago there probably weren't any Homo Sapiens around - it was all Homo Erectus, IIRC. I dunno if anyone knew this when Traveller was first written though, so it may just be one of those things that one has to suspend disbelief over.


That said, the rather fab (IMO) "Vilani & Vargr" book published by DGP for Megatraveller does say that they can have purple or gold irises in their eyes (for some odd reason that I'm not sure about), IIRC. Though since this is (annoyingly) non-canonical now you might choose not to take that as a data point.
 
Bugger really. I loved that book. What about Cats & Rats, has that gone the way of The Beyond?

It also mention some interesting blood typing.
 
Bugger really. I loved that book. What about Cats & Rats, has that gone the way of The Beyond?

It also mention some interesting blood typing.
 
V&V is not non canonical - it is unsuable canon in official publications but as I understand it even the broad brush 'lets ignore the past' approach of GURPS cannot de canonise v&v (which I accept, for the avoidance of doubt, is not a bad thing) as MWM (according to LKW's comment on GURPS channels such as the TML or the JTAS board) has said that DGP products must keep their IP but cannot be used in official text.

I might be wrong or might misunderstand what Mr Wiseman has said, of course, but I dont see how V&V is 'de canonised' in light of Mr Miller's injunction to Traveller authors.

I dont have the GURPS book on Vilani - is there anything in that publication that states the opposite of MWM's general policy?
 
There isn't a GURPS book about the Vilani - they're not in the GT:Humaniti book either.

What's annoying about the DGP stuff is that - from what I've gathered anyway - the only reason they're decanonised is because of legal issues. I've never heard anything to suggest that they're decanonised because the material itself is substandard or wrong (indeed, before GT came along I rated the DGP stuff as the best material ever written for Traveller).

I wonder - in the unlikely event that the legal issues will ever be resolved in MWM's favour, would the DGP material ever come back into canon?
 
Originally posted by secretagent:
Was there any indication that they were transplanted Persians or Babylonians?
It might be an interesting little detail if the Persians or Babylonians were in fact a lost group of Vilani explorers (or some such).
 
Sumerians. They were a Vilani colony. Maybe Earth was a penal colony for Vilani dissenter groups.
 
That could be kinda fun in a way. Ever read "Encounter With Tiber" by Buzz Aldrin (and someone else I think)? In that an alien humanoid race land on Earth a few thousand years in the fertile crescent that ends up being worshipped by the locals. And all those wacky biblical things (like Ezekiel's chariot of fire, and the big pillar of fire that's seen somewhere) are things like shuttles crashing or motherships desperately trying to stay aloft.

But if it's kinda like that with the Vilani, then I'd have them wiped out by the local Terran humans. It'd be too wacky to have it all turn out like Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where all the Solomani are actually descended from all those useless Vilani telephone sanitisers...
 
Proof of Ancients genetic modification?

although the H. erectus brain is configured somewhat differently than our own.
from the Homo erectus entry in the link above.

So did the Ancients transport "humans" from Earth and then modify them, or did they experiment with them on Earth first??? ;)
 
Canon says in a few places you can tell by the teeth... number not the same as H. Sapiens solomani.

Since Zhodani have 2 additional blood type antigens (M and N), it is safe to assume similar issues for vilani.
 
Some physical differences...

The Vilani have also mastered the secrets of longevity in which their science and protected environment allowed them to flourish on worlds alien to their own. Therefore, I have a much higher life expectancy. Skin colour tends toward the tan or brown or reddish. (Somewhere in canon there is talk even of a blue-skinned Vilani) Their eyes remain more hooded with an extra fold of skin.

But having said all that the whole of humaniti is so interbred in the Far, Far Future nothing short of a bloodtest would determine whether a person is truly Vilani or just one of the many genetic experiments by the different Imperiums to aid in the settlement of hostile worlds.

The significant difference in the Vilani resides within their psychology not physiology.

The GT Book on the Vilani is likely to deal with the Vilani in the IW Milieu given their propensity for change or lack thereof...it might be safely said that these characteristics would not change even in 1248.

As to the references to the Vilani being Persian or today's Iranians, Azeris, Iraqis this was hinted at in one of the Imperiallines issues which stated (warning very long entry):

Early Vilani/Terran Contacts by Terrence R. Mclnnes Scholars in the Restored Vilani Imperium have recently added an area of study that, till now, was never formally addressedthe possibility of Vilani contact with pre-stellar Terra. Two papers, published almost simultaneously in 1117, sparked the controversy. Later citings to legends, historical accounts, linguistic studies and archeological evidence fueled the growing debate. But, the topics of the original two papers still dominate discussions. Synopses of the two papers follow. The Lagash Disappearance: The exploratory cruiser Lagash was oneof a numberof vessels dispatched toward the Rim during the first great wave of Vilani exploration and settlement. The Lagash and her sisterships spent years on a single voyage. Though equipped only with relatively crude Jump-1 drives, they had enormous fuel capacity. The cruisers could use multiple jumps through deep space to reach stars farther than one parsec apart. The Lagash was rimward-bound out of Muan Gwi in -7518 when she last parted company with other Vilani vessels. She was due back at the Muan Gwi fleet rendezvous point in three years, but never returned. Documents dating back to -6021 offer some clues to the Lagash's disappearance. They include information about a sub-light message torpedo, with recorded togs from the Lagash, discovered flying through the Kaggashus system. When interrogated, it broad- cast its recordings on all commonly used hailing frequencies. The torpedo was moving toofast to be intercepted and disappeared again into deep space. The logs told of a drive fault while thecruiser was in a system with four gas giants and one hospitable world, a world with an indigenous human race. A further mishap, while refueling at the largest gas giant, permanently crippled the ship. With no other choice, the crew salvaged whatever it could from the cruiser and shuttled to the surface of the main world. Documents available to scholars do not mention the specific coordinates of the system. Although a few fragments of the original logs still exist, most of the surviving documents were not detailed records, rather merely appeals to Sharurshid management for further exploration, appeals Sharurshid denied. The Lagash was only mentioned in places. However, careful analysis of all references to the Lagash log makes Terra a likely place forthe crew to have landed.
This is further supported by information from Terra. According to Terran archeological records, humans living in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley began developing a major civilization shortly after the Lagash became marooned. Coincidentally, a major city-state in the region was named Lagash. By 2500 BC (-7018), the Lagash dynasty had conquered neigh- boring Ur and other city-states spreading a written language, engi- neering technology, and the concept of personal freedom throughout the area. The Sumerians, (possibly under the influence and leader- ship of the Lagashi), developed the first high civilization on Terra. They gave the world the first engineered irrigation systems, the potter's wheel, the wheeled vehicle, the sailboat, the first coherent system of music, and a base-60 mathematical system. Terran linguists were amazed to leam, with the first Vilani encounters at Barnard's Star, that the Vilani language in many ways resembles ancient Sumerian, and that the First Empire Vilani alpha- bet had a strong similarity to Sumerian cuneiform writing. This suggests to many scholars that the crew of the Lagash did indeed establish a base on early Terra. They speculate that the Lagash crew used the remnants of their equipment and knowledge of technology to build superiorweapons and farm implements. These were in turn used to dominate their indigenous neighbors. Physical evidence of the Lagash would be most difficult, if not impossible to find after all these millennia. Since the Lagash itself was never found in orbit around Terra, most believe its orbit decayed and was destroyed in the crash. Based on orbital data in the few surviving log fragments, some believe the explosion in 1600 BC ( 6118) that destroyed most of the island of Santorini and much of the Cretan civilization in the eastern Mediterranean Sea was caused by the Lagash entering the atmosphere and crashing into the sea. Those holding the strongest belief in the Santorini/Lagash crash theory speculate that some wfefsnoa of the crash, probably fossilized into rock, may still remain m the seated near the island. The VlllanI Brothers: In AD 1275 (-3243). Giovanni and Matteo Villani appeared in Florence, Italy. Their origins were unknown, however they belonged to the wealthy merchant dass and Giovanni in particular rose to play a major role in Europe's international economy. Giovanni Villani is most noted for his bookthe Cronica Universale. This work traces human history from its origins, and gives a detailed insight into the Florence of his time. This chronicle also reflects the worid was that of the counting house, the f 0'j city hall, and the public square. He and 0 i his brother were every inch merchants. But more than this, they exhibited every characteristic traditional to Sharurshid.

However, several scholars speculate that perhaps the Vilani brothers were Vilani. Possibly they were traders voyaging along the rimward frontier of the Sharurshid bureau's territory in search of new business opportunities, and found themselves stranded on a primitive but developing Terra. By this time the First Empire had reached its maximum expansion, and the nearest Vilani controlled worid was only a few parsecs to coreward. To this day, no ; one knows the Villani's exact origin or the year of their birth. Could they have come from the stars? I Artifacts from this period in Terra's history still survive, preserved by families or museums. Scholars, at AAB are hopeful that relics of the Villani brothers may in truth prove to be Vilani. The information on which these papers are basedparticularly the possible relationship between the Vilani and Sumerian languageshas long been on file within the AAB on Viand. That this knowledge was not distributed until now suggests a mechanism within the Third Imperium's bureaucracy might have suppressed it. The surge of interest in this topic also comes with a large measure of frustration. Many of the ideas offered by scholars can potentially be confirmed on Terra. Unfortunately, the routes to that world, the birth place of humaniti. have closed indefinitely. (Note: Terrence Mclnnes is the author of MagaTravellerAliens)

Above is Copyright GDW(c)
 
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Proof of Ancients genetic modification?

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />although the H. erectus brain is configured somewhat differently than our own.
from the Homo erectus entry in the link above.

So did the Ancients transport "humans" from Earth and then modify them, or did they experiment with them on Earth first??? ;)
</font>[/QUOTE]Another possibility is that some characteristic or set of characteristics developing in the new branch of early humans may have been what caught the Ancient's eye.
 
I went back last night and looked at Mega-T Encyclopedia and did note that Vilani interbred with Terrans to the point where they are almost indistinguishable. Also noted the 300,000 BC date for "sampling" of human specimens so that disrupts the idea of Babylonians --- My confusion stemmed from the use of Sumerian and Babylonian names in CT.

2 bits of heresy that I might suggest for modifying the TU timeline:

1. Have the Ancients take human samples much later in time --say 10,000 to 20,000 BC -- this would account for certain Chariots of the Gods effects and would explain why the Vilani use Sumerian language.

2. A blatant rip-off of "Childhood's End" but I picture/present the Ancients as much larger than the Droyne -- as in Childhood's End they are basically gargoyles.
 
The Ancients wiped themselves out c.300,000 years ago, long before any kind of Terran human civilisation.
================================================
Yes I know. My suggestion is a non-canon heresy. I wander away from canon for purposes of storyline or common sense. Not cricket I know but what is these days.
 
I went back last night and looked at Mega-T Encyclopedia and did note that Vilani interbred with Terrans to the point where they are almost indistinguishable. Also noted the 300,000 BC date for "sampling" of human specimens so that disrupts the idea of Babylonians --- My confusion stemmed from the use of Sumerian and Babylonian names in CT
Still see my original post regarding GDW's attempt to reconcile the pre-First Contact with some of the DGP products. Maybe, Milieu: Interstellar Wars will shed more light on pre-contact.
 
Originally posted by Malenfant:
Also bear in mind that really, 300,000 years ago there probably weren't any Homo Sapiens around - it was all Homo Erectus, IIRC. I dunno if anyone knew this when Traveller was first written though, so it may just be one of those things that one has to suspend disbelief over.
The date when archaic Homo sapiens showed up is in dispute here in the Real World. Back around 1980 300,000 BC was considered a good guess. An anthropological textbook that I consulted a few years ago put the date around 150,000 BC, but M. Lloyd (who is some sort of anthropologist or paleontologist -- I'm not quite sure what) says that the dispute is still going on and that 300,000 BC is by no means ruled out.

All that to the side, the Traveller Universe is not the Real Universe. In the TU there is an extra bit of evidence that we don't have in the Real World, namely the fact that dozens of populations whose latest common ancestors lived 300,000 years ago is, in fact, interfertile. IMO that proves that in the TU archaic Homo sapiens - what GT:Humaniti calls Homo sapiens antiquus - did exist 300,000 years ago, whatever the case may be in the Real World.


Hans
 
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