The Real Sol Con Reform posting page....

[Elliot]

Rule 1: No more I hate TNE/GURPS/CT/MT/GDW/SJG on this post

Rule 2: Refer to rule one.

Not being a GURPS Trav universe player (but getting the email TNS's) I have been viewing the Sol Con reforms with interest - after all the same happened in MT under the DGP/Chuck Gannon reign with the gradually ascendancy of the pan sophontist movement.

How does it affect the Third Imperium - surely the remit of GURPS cant have the sollies liberalising and seizing the moral high ground against the nobles and serfs of the Empire? That would be just as radical as MT (in fact I remember Mr Miller saying something on those lines at the time of MT, but my memory may be wrong...)

I could envisage a split along the lines of that recently proposed in the Ukraine (or the American civil war for that matter) - that the pro Solomani party lot take one half of the Sol Con and the more liberal lot take the other half. The ensuing civil war can run for a bit, produce good adventure hooks and those playing an Imperial campaign have a war that they can intervene in as players but which does not affect the Imperium as such. That way the old 'can't make a difference' line is written out of the GURPS Traveller universe.

 

[plop101]

Elliot writes:

I could envisage a split along the lines of that recently proposed in the Ukraine {....}

I could imagine alot of dividing up. Think collapse of Soviet Union or Yugoslavia. Things could get ugly real quick. Not just the politics of reform vs conservatism. You could have alot of proto nationalist movements springing up and fighting each other. You would have Aslan Ihatie[SP] and the Hivers trying to take advantage of the situation, while the 3I would have to keep that big fleet in the rim just to control the borders from the chaos.

What fun! Joygasm!

 

[jcrocker]

Would the SolCon split, or instead go for an overamped version of the 'red/blue conflict' we see now in the US? I'd expect the occasional incident on quiet starlanes between 'red' and 'blue' SolCon ships, but not for a while. The Big Bad 3I just across the border would be too useful a bogeyman to let the SolCon split so quickly.

Lots more political maneuverings, dirty tricks, maybe even an outbreak of an assasin war or a few 'breakaway/rebel' polities put down, but would the Confederation allow itself to tear itself to bits?

 

[kafka47]

Or just maybe SJG is going to get a Firefly RPG and the civil war in the Sol. Confederation would provide a perfect backdrop for a Firefly Campaign...

Seriously, we know that SJG has committed himself to a parallel universe only where the Rebellion does not happen but everything else before and after goes on the same. So something is going to have to release that virus. If it is titanic civil war then so be it. But, my reading it is just the same dress rehersals that took place in the original GDW TNS newsfeeds showing that the confederation is not as united or nazi like as some would like to protray it.

Furthermore, as SJG moves toward releasing Interstellar Wars, the non-Rebellion GT is winding down and Loren wants don't doubt keep us fighting all the way to 1248 to find out all the answers.

For me, most of the answers I suspect would be in Jon's book on Alderban but I guess that is another vapourware project that got redirected when SJG is going through the overall that has taken place with the new GURPS rules releases.

 

[Elliot]

'So something is going to have to release that virus. If it is titanic civil war then so be it.'

I thought there was a sidebar in the GURPS Traveller rulebook that said Virus did not exist in the GURPS T timeline?

No doubt Steve will get Firefly as a sourcebook spinoff (he gets the best stuff in the end) but I take your point - a collapsed Sol Con is a safe place to play the Rebellion and also a perfect Firefly-esque setting.

 

[hcobb]

Wouldn't Firefly be more like a Sol Con that had crushed the reformers after a short war?

 

[daryen]

Yes, Firefly is most definitely set after the war, not during it.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Ok, this was a wild and hairy thought I had. Maybe a good idea . . . maybe not so good an idea.

The Empress, Warrant in hand, could issue a broad public statement guaranteeing that no matter what happened internally in the Solomani Confederation for the next, say, five years, the Imperium would not attack them (unless they themselves attack first), and would attack anyone else attacking the Confederation. Additionally, the Imperium would like to initiate a long term peace and trade agreement, sealing off the now two-hundred year old Rim War for good. By doing so, Strephon and the Empress take on a dramatic position (not necessarily favored by all Imperial Nobles, but still, it's a major position and policy to undertake and back successfully). She can even dangle the possibility of a formal Imperial recognition of Solomani sovereignty. The negotiations, of course, would have to be conducted with a stable and legitimate Confederation government, and the she and the Imperium peaceably await the resolution of any internal difficulties.

Needless to say, there are many ifs ands and buts attached to such a proclomation (including, probably most dramatically, the Confederation desire to get Terra and other worlds back).

Now to await the rippage . . . (remember, that was a &#147Wild & Hairy&#153&#148 idea).


EDIT-----
I was thinking that the Imperium was surrounded by enemies, and that Strephon recognized this. The best chance, by far, to eliminate one of the most powerful enemies and reduce a massive block of tensions, would be to make peace with the Solomani Confederation. In theory, it would allow the Imperium to concentrate more successfully against other enemies.

 

[daryen]

I can go for that idea.

Also, once the shooting does start, she can also make a second public statement declaring that the Imperium will not attack the Solomani Confederation, but that any world that petitioned for admission into the Imperium would be given full consideration.

Obviously, it would have to be stated much more politically than that, but would serve as added incentive to the Confederation to get its house in order or worlds could begin to defect to the Imperium.

 

[LKW]

I thought there was a sidebar in the GURPS Traveller rulebook that said Virus did not exist in the GURPS T timeline?

Not really. It exists, but the license with FFE says it's not allowed to leave the lab it's in. As far as characters are concerned, it doesn't exist.

 

[hcobb]

Originally posted by LKW:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I thought there was a sidebar in the GURPS Traveller rulebook that said Virus did not exist in the GURPS T timeline?

Not really. It exists, but the license with FFE says it's not allowed to leave the lab it's in. As far as characters are concerned, it doesn't exist. </font>[/QUOTE]Are they at least allowed to drop the Star Trigger on Captial?

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by daryen:
I can go for that idea.

Also, once the shooting does start, she can also make a second public statement declaring that the Imperium will not attack the Solomani Confederation, but that any world that petitioned for admission into the Imperium would be given full consideration.

Obviously, it would have to be stated much more politically than that, but would serve as added incentive to the Confederation to get its house in order or worlds could begin to defect to the Imperium.

I see the Imperium accepting, urging, and conning the creation of several independent border states as a buffer to seperate SolCon proper from the neighboring powers. These border states can profit by acting as diplomatic and trade middlemen. Something tells me Near Bootes and Kukulcan regions would really be interested in this arrangement.

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by LKW:
Not really. It exists, but the license with FFE says it's not allowed to leave the lab it's in. As far as characters are concerned, it doesn't exist.

Virus may not leave, but what about stable derivatives, like AI beings? Does the license include that possibility. That can have both good (NPC & PC machines and starships) and bad (Terminator and Cylons) ramifications.

Originally posted by Henry J Cobb:
Are they at least allowed to drop the Star Trigger on Captial?

or prevent it, in the case of one group of mine.

Imagine the marker the Emperor owes you on that one!!

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Henry J Cobb:
Are they at least allowed to drop the Star Trigger on Captial?

Well, according to GT:Humaniti, the Star Trigger is alive and well.

However, two other limitations SJG is under from their license is that Strephon can't die except by old age, and the Imperium can't have a civil war.

(Presumably that is ended by "and break up". I suppose that a portion could always rebel and be put down if they really wanted to.)

 

[LKW]

Originally posted by daryen:
{deletions}
However, two other limitations SJG is under from their license is that Strephon can't die except by old age, and the Imperium can't have a civil war.

(Presumably that is ended by "and break up". I suppose that a portion could always rebel and be put down if they really wanted to.)

It has happened before.

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by LKW:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daryen:
{deletions}
However, two other limitations SJG is under from their license is that Strephon can't die except by old age, and the Imperium can't have a civil war.

(Presumably that is ended by "and break up". I suppose that a portion could always rebel and be put down if they really wanted to.)

It has happened before. </font>[/QUOTE]Foreshadow ALERT!!!

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by George Boyett:
Foreshadow ALERT!!!

Except that Loren, devious genious that he is, would have realized that we would read foreshadowing into it, and believe that was what was happening next, thus leading us down a false path in order to obscure what would really happen . . .

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by George Boyett:
Foreshadow ALERT!!!

Except that Loren, devious genious that he is, would have realized that we would read foreshadowing into it, and believe that was what was happening next, thus leading us down a false path in order to obscure what would really happen . . . </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah except the question to ask is "Where has it happened before?" I can name three domains that had uprisings or fought against Imperial rule. The obvious is the Imperial worlds of the Solomani Rim. The next can be Ilelish, though that may have been stopped with the death of Dulinor and the shakeup in his family. The final are the sectors involved during the Julian Wars, but that's centuries ago.

Then there's the prospect of a major shakeup in SolCon. IIRC there's been several insurrections, including the KuKulcan situation and the Near Bootes worlds. Though this time around it maybe more than just one region of space, but several fighting for reforms.

 

[daryen]

Well,

Assuming he is talking about "current events" and not history, and that he is not obfuscating, then my guess is the nastiness going around in the Imperial portion of the Rim.

There is noticable conflict going on between humand and Vegan forces. Assuming this is what LKW is referring to, then one could deduce that the conflicts that have been reported are merely the tip of the proverbial iceberg, and a full blown human/Vegan war has already started.

Which, BTW, is probably what Iolanthe's Warrant is really for. Her job is not to deal with the Solomani Confederation's problems, but with the human/Vegan issue in Imperial space. The Warrant means she can do whatever she thinks is necessary to fix the problem.

(Of course, this brings up a side question: Why would the Empress need a Warrant? Shouldn't she already have the authority a Warrant would give without the need for a "piece of paper"?)

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by daryen:
There is noticable conflict going on between humand and Vegan forces. Assuming this is what LKW is referring to, then one could deduce that the conflicts that have been reported are merely the tip of the proverbial iceberg, and a full blown human/Vegan war has already started.

I forgot about that wrinkle with the Rim. Thanks for the reminder.

Originally posted by daryen:
Which, BTW, is probably what Iolanthe's Warrant is really for. Her job is not to deal with the Solomani Confederation's problems, but with the human/Vegan issue in Imperial space. The Warrant means she can do whatever she thinks is necessary to fix the problem.

IIRC the Warrent can be made limited to a particular area of authority. Unless Strephon was hedging his bet about SolCon, Iolanthe's Warrant will be limited to the Vegan issue.

Of course there's the possibility Iolanthe, after getting briefed about current SolCon affairs, could "fake it" and take charge (Flash the badge without people reading the fine print). This is a breach of the Warrant, but if handled properly Strephon could forgive the breach.

Originally posted by daryen:
(Of course, this brings up a side question: Why would the Empress need a Warrant? Shouldn't she already have the authority a Warrant would give without the need for a "piece of paper"?)

No. Getting a little "Yanks in Space", the Consort is like the First Lady of the USA; they make unofficial representation and patronage between the Iridium Throne and whatever causes or organizations that interest them. At least that what I get from reading Nobles and other sources. The Warrant just means her decisions, unless countermanded by Strephon, is considered law.