The problem with Steve Jackson Games

[Seanr451]

SJ Games still has problems meeting its own deadlines. This after being in business for over 20 years.

It's obvious at this point that SJG is no longer going to be supporting Traveller after they publish their one 4th edition book Interstellar Wars. Worse, this book isn't even set in the same time frame as their other 30 Traveller books.

I can't complain too much though. The 30 Traveller books they have published are more Traveller books than any other company has published. (Ok GDW published more but they weren't all CT) Traveller had a good long run with SJG and they've produced a lot of good info.

The problem now is that most of the Traveller books are out of print. Many are no longer available, or will soon not be available, which will essentially eliminate Gurps Traveller as a viable version of Classic Traveller. To address this problem I suggested that SJG scan old books and put them up for sale on their electronic store e23. The response I got from this was a long and varied list of excuses. Nevermind that you can take a book down to Kinko's and they'll scan the whole thing and put it into PDF format for less than $100. Nevermind that in response to my posts at least two people offered to do it for SJG for FREE. NO, they STILL couldn't do that, and they were SOOO offended that I'd even suggested the very idea.

I really like the GURPS game system. I think that 4th edition is a great improvement over 3rd edition. I was excited when I first heard that GURPS would be doing Traveller, and I remained excited after every book came out, I bought them, read them, and was very happy with the quality of the product that SJG had produced. I love CT and I see G:T as an improvement and continuation of CT. However G:T is soon no longer going to be a viable option.

At this point if you like G:T I certainly recommend picking up all of the books you can find on eBay, but realize that there aren't going to be anymore new G:T books. I'm undecided as whether or not to recommend using a filesharing program to download all of the old GURPS books for free. I'm obviously upset enough at SJG to no longer want to give them any of my money, but if SJG quits getting money for their Gurps books they'll simply switch over to making nothing but Munchkin products full-time. (which is what it seems like they're doing anyway)

Say nothing and be content with receiving nothing. Complain and get nothing but c**p in return. Vote with my wallet and risk losing the continued existance of my favorite game system. Heck of a catch-22 huh?

 

[Michael Taylor]

It's fortunate then that T20/QLI/Avenger exists and is publishing to the limit of its resources at present. I know it's not GT, but at least it covers the T20/CT bases.

 

[parmasson]

Yeah. I am familiar with the company mentality of “We are not going to do it BECAUSE.” I don’t work for SJG but you get it everywhere. When confronted with those people I just nod, smile blandly and walk away. Somebody has decided and that is that.

 

[Gnusam Netor]

This makes me cry a little - was the sales that bad really? I own 5 G:T books myself and haven't played them once - but i still bought them.

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
[...] Somebody has decided and that is that.

It's stupid - but who am i to tell them (or so they will ask atleast).

 

[mike wightman]

LKW has said that there may be more e23 releases of GT material - but it will be based on the GURPS 3rd edition/GT 2nd edition rules.

Interstellar Wars does look like a great game, and is a 4e product.

I can only hope that GT:IW is a success and further material is produced.

 

[Whipsnade]

The trouble with Steve Jackson Games is that people with utterly no knowledge of the company's internal business conditions and extremely little knowledge of the gaming business as a whole feel totally comfortable in opening their pieholes to make pronouncements about the trouble with Steve Jackson Games.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has got one.

Let me quote a line from the original post; ...after being in business for over 20 years. I would think that being in business for over twenty years; surviving the CCG craze and maintaining an independent RPG system in the face of the WotC/d20/Borg threat, should count for something. Apparently it does not.

As for deadlines, the people who complain the most about missed deadlines are also the people who would complain the most about a product being 'rushed' or 'unfinished'. Damned if you do and damned if you don't it seems.

You want more G:T products? Write them or encourage others to do so. Spit in one hand, bitch in the other, and see which one fills up first.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Seanr451]

The trouble with SJG is that despite being in business for over 20 years the people in charge still don't know what it takes to cause books to come out on schedule.

And yes, I have plenty of opinions. Don't like it? Then don't read my posts.

I have sent 5 emails to the e23 clown in the past year stating that I'd like to write Gurps 4th edition adventures for placement on e23.

Never a response. Not one.

THAT's how SJG is working on supporting G4e. Nothing...

 

[Anthony]

The people in charge know exactly what's required to cause books to come out on schedule: either more money than they can afford to pay, or a quality lower than they're willing to publish.

As they say: 'fast, good, cheap. Pick no more than 2'

 

[Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen]

Not really knowing the details, is is possible that GURPS TRAVELLER is taking a knee to the upcoming T5?? Just a thought..

 

[Seanr451]

Originally posted by Anthony:
As they say: 'fast, good, cheap. Pick no more than 2'

Ok, I'll take Fast and Good.

Besides, $40 a book ain't cheap.

Originally posted by Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen :
is it possible that GURPS TRAVELLER is taking a knee to the upcoming T5?

Nope. Two different companies.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Seanr451:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Anthony:
[qb]As they say: 'fast, good, cheap. Pick no more than 2'

Ok, I'll take Fast and Good.

Besides, $40 a book ain't cheap.</font>[/QUOTE]At the sales volumes of RPGs, $40 is cheap; if RPGs weren't basically a hobby industry which is able to pay artificially low wages because much of the work is done by fans, those would be $100 books.

SJG made some mistakes with 4e (they overestimated how easy it would be to produce the new books), and they had some bad luck (losing some key staff). However, there's really no reason to assume they're being malicious, or that they don't _want_ to get the books out. They just can't.

 

[Seanr451]

I don't think the people running SJ Games are malicious, I think they're incompetent.

 

[Gnusam Netor]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
[snip?] people with utterly no knowledge of the company's internal business conditions and extremely little knowledge of the gaming business as a whole feel totally comfortable in opening their pieholes to make pronouncements about the trouble with [snip?]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has got one.

[snip?]

And everyone opens them occasionally, so sometimes it smells bad - you simply have to learn to live through it.

and besides, if shit wasn't spewed from people from time to time - where would all the good stuff get a fertile environment to grow in?

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Seanr451:
I have sent 5 emails to the e23 clown in the past year stating that I'd like to write Gurps 4th edition adventures for placement on e23.

Never a response. Not one.

Gee, could it be that for some mysterious reason Scott Haring has gotten the (quite erroneous, of course) impression that it would be more trouble than it would be worth to try to cooperate with you on a book?

Mind you, I do think he should have sent you a reply. Something like "Thanks, but no thanks".


Hans

 

[Libris]

Originally posted by Anthony:
At the sales volumes of RPGs, $40 is cheap; if RPGs weren't basically a hobby industry which is able to pay artificially low wages because much of the work is done by fans, those would be $100 books.

SJG made some mistakes with 4e (they overestimated how easy it would be to produce the new books), and they had some bad luck (losing some key staff). However, there's really no reason to assume they're being malicious, or that they don't _want_ to get the books out. They just can't.

Yup $40 a book is, if not cheap, not really that expensive either. I just paid $48 for what I am assured is a good 2nd hand copy of "Space Mission Analysis and Design". Most textbooks (which are usually printed in much greater volumes) are fortunes by comparison to RPG books and, other than reprints, editions tend to run for years.

 

[Shadoglare]

I can definately say after a recent Ebay purchase that if SJG needs extra time to release a book, they should take it -
Reason being is I recently picked up a copy of a GURPS Traveller hardback over ebay (obviously I'm new to the Traveller world), that at the time I didn't realize was the first edition - after recieving it, I went to the SJG web site to check on errata - and holy crap. About seven printed pages solid of stuff that was screwed up and somehow not caught before making it to the printer - ranging from glaringly obviously grammar errors to not-so-obvious but vitally important stat errors.

After reading over the errata it seems like there's no way it could have been fully playtested or even fully proof read before it was rushed to the printer - so, rather than deal with that in a new product being released like Interstellar Wars (especially at an SRP of $35) I'd prefer that they take their time in making darned sure it's right before sending it to print.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Seanr451:
I have sent 5 emails to the e23 clown in the past year stating that I'd like to write Gurps 4th edition adventures for placement on e23.

If memory serves that 'clown' is the same fellow who was involved in a Labor Day car accident that killed his infant son and required a lengthy hospital stay. I can see why he might not bother to answer e-mail from a well-known whiner like yourself.

I also see that JFZ and LKW have handled your other baseless accusations in another thread.

The squeaky wheel doesn't normally get the oil, sonny, it usually gets ignored.

Also, tell us how you were planning on writing 4e e23 products before the corebooks are published? If started making offers last year, you did so before Magic, Fantasy, and Banestorm were out. Space and Martial Arts are still in the pipeline too.

How can you write 4e products before the 4e rules are released?


Bill

 

[Seanr451]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
How can you write 4e products before the 4e rules are released?

I can't, nor did I intend to. Not sure if you realize this but the corebooks were released 15 months ago. So it was NOT before the corebooks were released. Only someone who was so determinded to bad-mouth me as you obviously are would wonder how I could write adventures for a game that doesn't exist yet.

As for the labor day accident. My heart goes out to him. I have two young sons myself.

So why didn't SJG have someone do his job while he was gone? They just decided to leave the job open and let his work and letters and email just stack up to the ceiling? How much sense does that make? And people wonder why I am increasingly under the impression that the people in charge at SJG are incompetent.

 

[Jame]

Wasn't JFZ the one who wrote that funny Star Trek book How Much for Just the Planet? One of my favorites...

 

[jcrocker]

No, that was John M Ford. You're right, great book. He also did Final Reflection, another good one.

Seanr451, I think you just blew your shot at winning "Miss Congeniality" in this year's pagent.

Maybe SJG didn't have anyone available on short notice to take over for him? Maybe they thought that work at a game company took back seat to a real-life tragedy? Maybe they wanted to wait until the guy was available so they could pay him for his whole job - so he could pay his hospital bill and/or for his infant sons' funeral?

I have no way of knowing if any of these are the case, just throwing a couple of ideas out there.

It's obvious that you don't like SJG, and you don't seem to like any of the responses you get from their people or others on the board. So why don't you start your own game company - show us how it's done?