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The infamous LAG

And my take on a version of the above for Traveller: (I know, but I just can't help myself when it comes to gun candy)

25mmLAG.jpg


Figure it has a 5 shot clip, caseless ammo, IR/visisble light laser to compliment the scope, oil-damped stock, and (since it is higher tech than today's versions and assuming advancements in materials technology) has as much polymer materials included in the weapon as possible for weight reduction. The gun could have a gas venting system to slide teflon-bearing supported weights forward along the sides of the barrel to help with the recoil reduction maybe, but it would still be something realistically fired from a prone position unless you were in BD.
 
According to the Frontline report on the Battle of Mogadishu, the .50 sniper guys were using the Barret like a regular rifle. Then again the fighting was a bit more close quarters, to they didn't have to sight their shots too much, but it was essentially a combat rifle usage.

There was another rifle here posted some seven years ago on this thread about a Russian monster of a sniper rifle. Something LAG-ish, but I'm thinking it wasn't a 20mm portable canon like the Finish weapon. It was more of a .50 (or slightly larger bore) kind of weapon. Someone even posted a pic here, or a link to one, but for the life of me I can't recall who posted that. Anyway, the point being that that's another LAG and/or large caliber sniper rifle like weapon.

Then there's the Cobra Assault Canon from Robocop. "State of the art bang-bang." To me, that's an LAG. Or at least that's what I thought of when I read the flavor text in Snapshot.

Just more aimless musings here.
 
The PTRD and PTRS the Soviets used in WW2 were roughly .55 cal (14.1mm or so I think) that could penetrate 40mm of face hardened steel at 100m. And they were like 5 feet long, too.

A 20mm version was produced but I couldn't find a lot of info other than it wasn't used much since by that time towards the end of the war the RPG's (not to mention bazookas showing up)were getting better and becoming the standard AT weapon. Which was why the Germans started putting skirts and spaced armor on their tanks.

Still, the PTRD was good enough that the Russians used them in huge numbers - even against Tigers they could at make a soft kill by breaking a track.

So this was probably what was discussed before.

The Barrett only weighs 36 pounds, so its not inconceivable that it could be hauled around as a weapon that might be used as a combat rifle - and the sniper teams have only two guys that operate alone with one of them carrying a regular assault weapon to help protect the sniper, but the sniper has to carry the big gun.

Given its size and the close quarters involved I imagine a tactical transition by sniper from his Barrett to a pistol or whatever would be kind awkward. If you had it loaded and ready in your hands, came around the corner and found a bad guy in front you it'd be easier and instinctive to just vaporize him with the big gun. I've smacked guys with flashlights because it was already in my hand, and while my ASP would have been a better choice (its awfully hard on the flashlight and doesn't have as much reach or authoritative effect as an ASP), its what I had in my hand and my training took over when the guy tried to punch me.

But while that sort of thing just left me (after the suspect was in custody and the next morning) with a broken flashlight and sore wrist, I imagine the guy shooting the Barrett from the hip or offhand from the shoulder would have had one heck of a bruise later to show his buddies. Jeez, that would hurt!

I think, though, that if materials technology could develop light weight materials that could withstand the stresses of a powerful heavy caliber gun like .50 or 20+mm, and the proper design of body armor or a uniform could incorporate some sort of padding to absorb and spread the recoil - like a gel pack or something, then big caliber battle rifles would be more practical.

The real impracticality beyond weight (handling and carrying), recoil (that's obvious - specially if a quick second shot is needed), is the weight of the ammo. Right now I'm holding here a full 30 rd 5.56 mag and comparing it to a full 30 rd 7.62x39 AK mag and while they don't feel all that heavy by themselves, hauling around 10 of these things plus the rifle adds up. Just imagine what hauling around high capacity 20mm or .50 mags, plus a gun that weighs around 25 pounds or more would be like - brutal.

That's one reason I figure IMTU LAGs and most other high caliber CPR guns use at least caseless ammo and/or jacketed ceramic rounds that fragment on penetration.
 
BTW: the Cobra in RoboCop was just a Barrett M82A1 .50 all "Hollywood-ized". Still a cool gun in the film. But personally I would want one of those M56 pulse rifle smart guns from Aliens.

When you absolutely have to kill everything in sight...
 
Yes, the Steyr is what I always imagined the LAG to be like. I envision that in the future, the powder, cases and explosives would be much more powerful and lightweight, so anything that can be done with 40mm grenades can be done 20mm; plus say a 20mm/7mm, sub-caliber discarding sabot penetrator round that could take out a battle dress armored trooper.
 
Yes, the Steyr is what I always imagined the LAG to be like. I envision that in the future, the powder, cases and explosives would be much more powerful and lightweight, so anything that can be done with 40mm grenades can be done 20mm; plus say a 20mm/7mm, sub-caliber discarding sabot penetrator round that could take out a battle dress armored trooper.

Which is why I also follow that line of thought IMTU and have 40mm RAM grenades dropped to 20mm at TL11 with no loss of effectiveness.

And use a progressive scale of DM's to simulate the increased effectiveness of armor materials starting at TL12.

As for submunitions: stick this in your body pistol!

http://www.fsdip.com/website/VBRBelgiumHome/English/ParalightAmmunitionEng/tabid/212/Default.aspx
 
I agree, that does sound logical for the drop in size at that tech level, plus a lovely way for someone to be afraid of not getting more grenades if the general TL doesn't rate that high. The real beauty of laser weapons, they are rechargable.

Nice pistol penetrator rounds. I envision pentrator rods will be made of super-dense materials, such as the iron from a planetary core, something super dense and valuable to mine as well. I've made more of a study of AP tank rounds, to me body armor or any armor (including BD) is about survivability, not invincibility. Though from friends I have heard that even taking an AK round and it not penetrating the armor, you are still seriously injured. Armor, both LBA and vehicle is an interesting study, the thing about the newest chobham type, is it's thickness, while I could see BD mimicing that to some degree, it would have to be elastic enough to not be penetrated and a hard hit would still break bones as it would have a max thickness before it seriously impeded mobility.

Another interesting fact, that applies to the LAG, is that the Soviets highly prized the PTRS-41's ability to shoot through walls and such, turning actual cover into just concealment. So a LAG with lower recoil becomes that much better.
 
The PTRD and PTRS the Soviets used in WW2 were roughly .55 cal (14.1mm or so I think) that could penetrate 40mm of face hardened steel at 100m. And they were like 5 feet long, too.

A 20mm version was produced but I couldn't find a lot of info other than it wasn't used much since by that time towards the end of the war the RPG's (not to mention bazookas showing up)were getting better and becoming the standard AT weapon. Which was why the Germans started putting skirts and spaced armor on their tanks.

Still, the PTRD was good enough that the Russians used them in huge numbers - even against Tigers they could at make a soft kill by breaking a track.

So this was probably what was discussed before.

The Barrett only weighs 36 pounds, so its not inconceivable that it could be hauled around as a weapon that might be used as a combat rifle - and the sniper teams have only two guys that operate alone with one of them carrying a regular assault weapon to help protect the sniper, but the sniper has to carry the big gun.

Given its size and the close quarters involved I imagine a tactical transition by sniper from his Barrett to a pistol or whatever would be kind awkward. If you had it loaded and ready in your hands, came around the corner and found a bad guy in front you it'd be easier and instinctive to just vaporize him with the big gun. I've smacked guys with flashlights because it was already in my hand, and while my ASP would have been a better choice (its awfully hard on the flashlight and doesn't have as much reach or authoritative effect as an ASP), its what I had in my hand and my training took over when the guy tried to punch me.

But while that sort of thing just left me (after the suspect was in custody and the next morning) with a broken flashlight and sore wrist, I imagine the guy shooting the Barrett from the hip or offhand from the shoulder would have had one heck of a bruise later to show his buddies. Jeez, that would hurt!

I think, though, that if materials technology could develop light weight materials that could withstand the stresses of a powerful heavy caliber gun like .50 or 20+mm, and the proper design of body armor or a uniform could incorporate some sort of padding to absorb and spread the recoil - like a gel pack or something, then big caliber battle rifles would be more practical.

The real impracticality beyond weight (handling and carrying), recoil (that's obvious - specially if a quick second shot is needed), is the weight of the ammo. Right now I'm holding here a full 30 rd 5.56 mag and comparing it to a full 30 rd 7.62x39 AK mag and while they don't feel all that heavy by themselves, hauling around 10 of these things plus the rifle adds up. Just imagine what hauling around high capacity 20mm or .50 mags, plus a gun that weighs around 25 pounds or more would be like - brutal.

That's one reason I figure IMTU LAGs and most other high caliber CPR guns use at least caseless ammo and/or jacketed ceramic rounds that fragment on penetration.
Not the weapon I was thinking of.

Headed back to other aspects of Traveller.
 
Well, if you're talking about the Barret Assault Rifle that uses 6.8mm then since that weapon isn't anywhere near the definition of an LAG then what where you thinking of?

And since in 93 the .50 Barrett wasn't used by the forces in Somalia for sniping then what are you talking about?
 
The Barret thing is fine. I meant the Russian weapon.

There was somekind of huge "mobile" rifle that some one posted a link to a few years back. I'll try to track down the thread.
 
And, this is only ~TL 7-8. At TL 12 you'll just uniquely describe the target, let micro munition seek it out and crawl into its underwear and, BANG! :devil:
 
I just wanna know where that was at when I was in Grenada? And Panama? And Kuwait? See, they make all the nice toys after I got out in 1993 :(
 
Wasn't that the name of SJG's experimental Car Wars tank? The XM Dempsey or something?

*edit; sorry if that sounds completely random, but it's what came to mind*
 
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