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The Hinterworlds: Seeking canonical references...


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Good afternoon, All,

I'm seeking canonical references for the Hinterworlds sector, as there's been a request for me to consider that as the next sector I develop for Stellar Reaches (if 1248 is released by the end of this year.)

Before I tackle something like that, I'd like to know what all the canonical information is out there that I'd have to make sure to remain compatible with. (Even if you don't think I should worry about it, it's my call to worry about it.)

I understand that the sector was described in Challenge #39. I also understand that some more detail was provided in an adventure or something in Challenge #52. The Hinterworlds have also been referenced in a number of TAS entries for the late Rebellion Era.

I've gathered that there's one Droyne world, and that the following minor races have a place in the sector:

* Gniivi: Native to Pru-mavin / Hinterworlds 2924, they are a large, long-lived race, slow and deliberate, that controlled a three-subsector domain along the trailing edge of the Hinterworlds at the height of the Rebellion.
* Stalkers (Outcasts of the Whispering Sky): Native to 214-389 / Hinterworlds 1328, these resemble quadrupedal "blobs" with an extensible neck and one eye. They communicate thru light patterns; the starry sky appears to be saying something. During the Second Civil War, they occupied 10 systems and an Ancient, partially-completed ringworld.
* Cytrialin: A dead race whose philosophic outlook provided the basis for the Cytrialin Unity, a human/alien interdependent culture.
* Jenda: A minor race with a great capacity for biochemical technology.
* Lamura Gav: Part of a human/alien interdependent culture, the Cytrialin Unity. Described as "small, spidery-legged." Their multi-subsector domain stretches into Hinterworlds H & L (Manere Reach & Sontra).
* Daniss: A minor race native to Hinterworlds 1329 (Bruia), they are bipedal xenophobic psionic humanoids controlling a half-subsector domain.

Beyond that, I do not know anything else, and am hoping that you good people might be able to tell me where I can find other canonical information on this sector.

Thanks In Advance,
I recommend Challenge # 39. That is presented in DGP style, and sort of paints it out in broad strokes, but it is extremely broad in some points, although still useful.

What's the Daniss from? It sounds familiar, but I can't place it right now...
Here is a cool interactive map that has subsector names, system names and UWPs. Don't know how canon all of this is, but I think a lot of the system details were generated using GURPS Traveller supplements.

Hinterworlds link

I use this site's maps for the Gateway Domain sectors all the time. Some of the system names are different, but the UWPs are usually the same as those in the T20 Gateway Domain supplement.

Here is another link to another site, with an extensive trade breakdown and link to a pdf map. Again, I don't know how canon this info is, but again it appears much of it was done using GURPs.

The link

IIRC, the Challenge #52 Hinterworlds reference was a multi-part adventure by Charles Gannon called Behind Blue Eyes. While set in the Hinters, the action was focussed within one system and primarily one one world.

I don't remember anything substantial in the adventure that wasn't previously mentioned in the Challenge Hinterworlds issue.

FWIW, Gannon also created IRIS, the Imperial intelligence agency so neatly (and properly) ret-conned out of existence by Dave Nilsen in Hard Times.

Have fun,
I use that one, too, but tend to use ZhoBerka's Space Atlas too, as it has the info for the Hinterworlds added. Again, I am not sure of the source, if its canon or not, but there is also a full sector map of Leodinae too. My PBEM is set in the Hinterworlds, and is influenced by all the sectors around it, though I focus mostly on Spica, Hinterworlds and Leodinae. The Jenda homeworld is in Leodinae. Half of the Gnivii space is in there, as is a majority of the Council of Leh Parash space. Also the Ithklur state and Corona Regenum are there, too. Lots of interesting bits...

On a side note, I have a new PC starting that is from the Geval system in the Council of Leh Parash. I cannot give specifics, but he aint exactly human!
Tried looking for my Daniss source, and that was a mistake on my part. Drop them from the alien list above.

Aside from Challenge and various TAS entries during the Rebellion Era, then, there's no other mention of the Hinterworlds in other publications?

With Regards,
Hi there Flynn.

Bill's memory stirred me to check through my Challenge collection.
Issues 48, 50, and 51 contain the three parts of the Behind Blue Eyes campaign - set in the Hinterworlds.
Issue 52 has details about the Stalkers in a two page article.

Hope this helps.

Challenge 47 has the adventure "Two Small Steps", which makes use of the MT low TL spacecraft rules from HT/Ch45, and another adventure - "Baker's Dozen" - both set in the Hinterworlds.
Looks like I'm going to have to focus on my Challenge collection next. My coverage in that area is spotty at best.

Thanks, Sigg,
Here are three more:

Challenge 42, adventure entitled Tourist Trap - set around the Nullian League.

Challenge 44, details about the Nullian league, and four patron encounters set therein.

Challenge 45, adventure entitled "Toll Road", set on the world Gomms in the Hinterworlds.
Okay, so depending on the level of detail therein, I may find it hard to keep within the canonicity of the Hinterworlds sector.

I'll have to see what I can pick up at Gen Con, before I resolve whether or not to tackle this particular project.

Ahh, but the beauty of the 1248 setting is it has virtually all been flattened in the past, so the extant canon can be ignored for the most part ;)
There's a lot to be said for that. Just want to make sure that what I produce rings true, so to speak, and is acceptable as a possible campaign or mini-campaign locale.

$12.50! My wife would kill me.

I'm hitting Gen Con this year, so maybe I can get the whole magazine, instead of just the insert.

Thanks, though. The help is appreciated.

With Regards,
Originally posted by Starviking:
The Traveller TNE list did a lot of work on the Hinterworlds for 1202 a long time ago. Hope that helps...
It most likely won't.

Fan efforts have a way of nibbling so much around the edges that they eventually destroy the basics of an entire setting. The TNE fan efforts are no exception. After all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Look at GDW's TNE work. After the Viral Holocaust, we have the Spinward States, the Hivers, the RC, the Hub Worlds, what's behind the Black Curtain, some hints regarding what once was the Vargr Extents and nothing else.

Sure, the TNE corebook does talk about how to set-up small surviving pocket empires, but the TNE fan efforts take that millimeter and stretch it for a parsec or so. In what had been the Old Expanses, the RC found only two 'pocket' empires - the Solee who used relic tech in a black box manner and Promise which was a Viral Horror Show. The Regency sees even less, in its ken nothing exists to trailing, rimward, or coreward.

Yet despite this canonical 'blasted heath', in the various TNE fan efforts large multi-system pocket empires seem to occur every third system or so. This is completely understandable however.

No one likes to envision the 1200 version of their favorite subsector or sector as a Viral haunted wasteland. They will always insert a 'flame' for good reasons, bad reasons, or no reasons at all. Once the flame exists, they'll continaully feed it too. Other fans will create other flames and - before you know it - the canonical blasted heath of the post-Viral Holocaust 1200s suddenly resembles the pre-Viral Black War era and good intentions have totally subverted the actual setting.

Don't bother with fan materials Flynn, stick to the real stuff.

Have fun,
In many respects I see your point Bill, in some I even agree. However I have a suspicion that your viewpoint here is possibly tainted by not likeing the setting (I may be wrong)

My view of the setting is that pocket empires should be emerging in every subsector. My view of the setting is that it's 1200 not 1140! Its been seventy years since virus release and most have died out, killed each other off or simply failed. Enough time has passed that mankind, indeed sophonts of all kinds, can finally pull themselves up out of the dirt and poke their collective noses out into space again. It is a time of building, rebuilding, and exploration. A vibrant, happy, dynamic time.

Fan efforts go a little over the top from time to time. Some are better than others. But too many of them? no I don't think so. Plus I think you're a little harsh on GDW's work on TNE. Please bear in mind they never finnished with TNE and moved onto a new project like they did with CT and MT. They did go under during TNE thus you're judging a work in progress rather than the finnished item.
As an FYI to Bill and others, here's the basic plan for polities and such.

Whichever sector I choose to develop for 1248 in Stellar Reaches, I will take the appropriate CT/MT period data and go through the following exercise:

1. Make sure that the data selected matches the AotI map, or the canonical source that published it, to make sure I've got good canon data.

2. Run it through the 1248 collapse/recover process, setting a cap of TL12 for collapse and TL13 for recovery. It is my opinion that anything above these levels would have been noted in the 1248 sourcebook, so I don't want to break new canon with my results.

3. Look over the data, and make any changes that appear necessary to insure that the new version of the sector is okay to game in without being over the top. Err on the side of conservatism, as it's usually easier for Ref to pump something up than to drop it down once it's in print.

4. Take the final 1248 data, and identify only worlds with Starport A or B, Population 7+, and TL 9+ as the possible centers for new polities. Using them as an expansion point, determine the boundaries of the new polities such that none are larger than a subsector or so. Again, it is my opinion that if a polity was too much larger than a subsector, it would probably be noted in the 1248 sourcebook, so I don't want to break the new canon by creating larger polities.

5. Review the changes between the original CT/MT data, the collapsed 1200 data and the recovered 1248 data, and come up with a history specific to the region.

1248 is a book about new beginnings, so I expect that there will be a number of small multi-world polities in the sector, probably each having around three to ten worlds or so. I imagine that there'll probably no more than six polities, overall (and probably closer to three). At least, that's what experiments with other sectors has shown me during the playtests.

If the end results actually resemble some of the HIWG work in this area, it'll be purely coincidental. Since I don't have written permission from the HIWG creators of that material to use it, I can't violate their copyright on their material by using it. I like my 'zine, and don't want to lose my ability to produce it because I used someone's material without permission.

Hope that helps,
In regards to Bill's observations, I would say I have to fundamentally agree. In addition, I think the other big reason for the massive spread of "pocket empires" is that a) everyone wants to leave their own "stamp" on the project, usually resulting in a pocket empire, and b) this will cause them to increasingly grow as more and more are added.

In the end you end up with something that would be more appropriate for 1300 than for 1200.

A completely different thing to keep in mind: 1248 is far more forgiving than 1200.

In TNE:1200, the devistation was absolute and nearly complete. The "wastelands" were just that: utterly wasted. Notice the nearly complete elimination of the populations on any world without a breathable atmosphere, and the reduction of the rest. The collapse procedure for 1200 was just absolutely brutal.

TNE:1248 changes that. In 1248 there are many more survivors. Many "uninhabitable" worlds have surviving populations. And many of the nicer worlds fare much better in 1248 than they would in 1200.

As a result, you should expect to see many more pocket empires and surviving worlds in the 1248 setting, than you would have seen in the old 1200 setting.