The Backwards Mask
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
Where are the sources of your information...Major Robject, we have wayz of making you talk...Two things...In all seriousness, this is excellent news, hopefully it will spawn more novels...and hopefully it is our own MJD.
Kafka tightens the thumbscrews a little tighter, "Now, tell us to the location of the Zecret Rebel Base..."
Kafka tightens the thumbscrews a little tighter, "Now, tell us to the location of the Zecret Rebel Base..."
Theophilus
SOC-13
Great news, I've waited decades for this....
Theophilus
SOC-13
Great news, I've waited decades for this....
Greetings everyone,
My name is Matt Carson and I’m the author mentioned at the beginning of this thread.
I’m a long-time lurker here on the COTI forums, and as such I realize that makes me an unknown quantity to all of you - at least for now.
So, yes, I'm the fellow who is currently developing The Backwards Mask manuscript along with Marc Miller.
When we started this project, Marc could not find an outline or plot sketch for The Backwards Mask anywhere in his records. We had the title and the cover art. Other than that we were basically starting from scratch with the previous two novels to guide us. Together, we developed a plot for the third book.
Now let me make a point here before I continue. For a writer stepping into a trilogy at Book Three, it can be a bit…interesting trying to pick up where another author has left off. You inherit everything that has gone before – characters, plot points, group dynamics – the whole enchilada. You get it all, and it’s your job to not only write a compelling story that rounds out the trilogy, but one that stays consistent with the preceding novels.
That’s exactly what I’m trying to do in concert with Marc. At every step, he has been *extremely* supportive of the project.
Now before I ever put pen to paper (or hand to keyboard in this case), I made it a point to study the two Paul Brunette novels in detail. Obviously, I don’t want to carry on and on with a detailed description of a character’s striking eyes of cobalt blue, if the previous novels said they were a melting shade of brown. The Devil's in the details, where a story is concerned. I'm convinced of that.
The upshot of all that is that now I have a short one-page synopsis of both The Death of Wisdom & To Dream of Chaos as mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I will be posting both of those in near future and inviting everyone to put in their two cents. A word of warning, however, these summaries will be spoiler-ific. If you are allergic to such things then please exercise caution.
Once I post them, I will be counting on you guys to tell me what you liked, and didn’t like, about the first two novels. I encourage lively debate on the subject. And judging from the other threads I’ve read about The Backwards Mask in the past, I know that opinions on both sides and middle of the fence run pretty high.
Should you have any questions for me, then I will try to make myself available to answer them.
So, all that’s very well and good, but I’m sure the logical question now is: What about The Backwards Mask itself?
Well, over the next few weeks and months as the project develops, we will be sending more info your way, including a sample chapter, character profiles and such like.
As far as the story is concerned, I can tell you that the valiant crew of the RCS Hornet will once again take center stage. They will be called back into action to combat a new threat to the RC. (Yes, I know that’s vague, but you can’t expect me to spill it all in my very first post, now can you?)
As for a release date, there are still some things that need to be ironed out before we can say for sure. More on that as it develops...
And as for the format of its release, it will be made into a downloadable PDF that will be available from DriveThruRPG.com. Marc has also expressed an interest in putting the The Death of Wisdom & To Dream of Chaos in PDF format up there as well (along with their original, full-color covers).
So that’s the world as it stands today.
Now I put it to you - what do you guys think?
-MC
My name is Matt Carson and I’m the author mentioned at the beginning of this thread.
I’m a long-time lurker here on the COTI forums, and as such I realize that makes me an unknown quantity to all of you - at least for now.
So, yes, I'm the fellow who is currently developing The Backwards Mask manuscript along with Marc Miller.
When we started this project, Marc could not find an outline or plot sketch for The Backwards Mask anywhere in his records. We had the title and the cover art. Other than that we were basically starting from scratch with the previous two novels to guide us. Together, we developed a plot for the third book.
Now let me make a point here before I continue. For a writer stepping into a trilogy at Book Three, it can be a bit…interesting trying to pick up where another author has left off. You inherit everything that has gone before – characters, plot points, group dynamics – the whole enchilada. You get it all, and it’s your job to not only write a compelling story that rounds out the trilogy, but one that stays consistent with the preceding novels.
That’s exactly what I’m trying to do in concert with Marc. At every step, he has been *extremely* supportive of the project.
Now before I ever put pen to paper (or hand to keyboard in this case), I made it a point to study the two Paul Brunette novels in detail. Obviously, I don’t want to carry on and on with a detailed description of a character’s striking eyes of cobalt blue, if the previous novels said they were a melting shade of brown. The Devil's in the details, where a story is concerned. I'm convinced of that.
The upshot of all that is that now I have a short one-page synopsis of both The Death of Wisdom & To Dream of Chaos as mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I will be posting both of those in near future and inviting everyone to put in their two cents. A word of warning, however, these summaries will be spoiler-ific. If you are allergic to such things then please exercise caution.
Once I post them, I will be counting on you guys to tell me what you liked, and didn’t like, about the first two novels. I encourage lively debate on the subject. And judging from the other threads I’ve read about The Backwards Mask in the past, I know that opinions on both sides and middle of the fence run pretty high.
Should you have any questions for me, then I will try to make myself available to answer them.
So, all that’s very well and good, but I’m sure the logical question now is: What about The Backwards Mask itself?
Well, over the next few weeks and months as the project develops, we will be sending more info your way, including a sample chapter, character profiles and such like.
As far as the story is concerned, I can tell you that the valiant crew of the RCS Hornet will once again take center stage. They will be called back into action to combat a new threat to the RC. (Yes, I know that’s vague, but you can’t expect me to spill it all in my very first post, now can you?)
As for a release date, there are still some things that need to be ironed out before we can say for sure. More on that as it develops...
And as for the format of its release, it will be made into a downloadable PDF that will be available from DriveThruRPG.com. Marc has also expressed an interest in putting the The Death of Wisdom & To Dream of Chaos in PDF format up there as well (along with their original, full-color covers).
So that’s the world as it stands today.
Now I put it to you - what do you guys think?
-MC
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
Welcome, Matt!! I don't envy your task, but that is why they pay you the big bucks, right?
I have to say that I am pretty excited about this and 1248 coming out. I only wish that I still had my copies of the first two books. I remember the first one somewhat, and the major characters, but the details are pretty fuzzy - it was a long time ago.
I am sure you will not be lacking in opinions here.
Good Luck!
I have to say that I am pretty excited about this and 1248 coming out. I only wish that I still had my copies of the first two books. I remember the first one somewhat, and the major characters, but the details are pretty fuzzy - it was a long time ago.
I am sure you will not be lacking in opinions here.
Welcome Matt! You are right about the division about the novels but what divides us more is poor literature and inconsistancy with the larger Traveller universe.
The first step by contacting Marc seems to be a good one but what are your Traveller credentials and have you had a chance to look at 1248? Will your story be designed to tie into that line or is Marc developing a separate TNE. Because, surely you should have also been in contact with MJD...as a QLI line editor and the man charged with taking Traveller's TNE line forward to 1248...
The multiplicity of timelines is getting quite alarming.
Also, have you written anything like this before? Or will this be your first novel? Look forward to hearing more as you materialize more into view.
The first step by contacting Marc seems to be a good one but what are your Traveller credentials and have you had a chance to look at 1248? Will your story be designed to tie into that line or is Marc developing a separate TNE. Because, surely you should have also been in contact with MJD...as a QLI line editor and the man charged with taking Traveller's TNE line forward to 1248...
The multiplicity of timelines is getting quite alarming.
Also, have you written anything like this before? Or will this be your first novel? Look forward to hearing more as you materialize more into view.
I am very happy the third TNE novel will be written.
I am extremely happy that it will not be written by Paul Brunette.
You have your work cut out for you Mr. Carson. However, when you look at the first two novels, you can rest assured that anything would be an improvement. You simply cannot help but do better.
Welcome to Traveller!
Have fun,
Bill
I am extremely happy that it will not be written by Paul Brunette.
You have your work cut out for you Mr. Carson. However, when you look at the first two novels, you can rest assured that anything would be an improvement. You simply cannot help but do better.
Welcome to Traveller!
Have fun,
Bill
Hello again,
Thanks for the welcome all around. I'm very excited to work on The Backwards Mask project, so it's good to see some excitement on your part as well. It does my heart good.
Now this time around I come bearing a brief recap of The Death of Wisdom as well as some related character callouts. But before I get into that, let me address some of your questions.
Kafka47
Curious about my Traveller street cred, eh? Well here goes: I graduated 2nd in my class at the Imperial Naval Academy with full marks in Jump Theory, Fleet Tactics and Classical Terran Literature...
Okay, all kidding aside, I was introduced to Traveller "only" 10 years ago. I know that makes me late in coming to the party compared to a number of those here that have been around since Day 1.
I cut my teeth on the T4/Milieu Zero era, but the gentleman who ran the game was also fond of CT & MT, so he introduced elements of both into the original game. For a first timer, it was a good all around look at the TU. I had a distinct "you had me at hello" moment with Traveller when my friend was describing some of the TU's basic tenets. He said:
"When Earth started exploring space, we started running into to other humans. The reason being, that an ancient race of super-powerful aliens seeded humaniti throughout the stars leaving pyraminds and Easter Island statues wherever they went."
I was sold from that point on. And then my friend added:
"Oh, and while The Ancients were on Earth, they also took wolves and evolved them into a sophont species that often act as raiders and pirates."
My jaw dropped. Humanoid wolves? In space? Who are also pirates? Where do I sign up? Even today, the Vargr remain one of my favorites among the Major Races.
So, that is how I got started in Traveller, and I've been hooked ever since.
Now, to speak to your point about consistency between TBM and 1248. My primary concern is to make The Backwards Mask consistent with the other two novels. That is not to say that it will step on the toes of 1248, because like I said before, I like consistency.
That said, however, TBM is not designed to be a "linking" novel between regular TNE and 1248, it's just going to bring the trilogy to a conclusion. Marc has told me that MJD will get signoff on it as well. It is my hope that if there are any glaring inconsistencies (such as Oriflamme's sun suddenly going supernova, or Commodore Lathrop sprouting a third eye) then we hope to address them then. Make sense?
As far as what I've done before, this will be my first novel to make it to publication. There are others I have at various stages of completion, but TBM will be the first one off the mark.
Bill
I thank you for your vote of confidence.
Although, I may have agree to disagree with you about the Paul Brunette novels. By several orders of magnitude, they are most certainly not the worst game-related fiction I've read. In fact they're not anywhere close to the worst. I won't name any names, but in my time time, sir, I've seen some real stinkers.
But, cooking is a matter of taste, I suppose. I would be very interested, in as much detail as you wish to give me, to know why you thought TDOW and TDOC were biohazards. Honestly, I want to know.
And that goes for the rest of you as well. I want to know what made dyed-in-the-wool Travellers groan or call foul. What were those things that went against the Traveller grain that made you lose interest?
And for those valiant souls out there, I would also like to hear about what you did like about them. When it comes to TDOW & TDOC, I don't want to always focus on the negative. They do, after all, lead up the story I'm writing and I have to love it for it to work. I think you get my drift.
Jim
I can understand about being hazy on the specifics of the book. I've read both novels many times through, recently I might add, and I'm still having to go back and re-read passages from the two to make sure I get my facts straight. Yeah, my copies are looking a bit rough...
And when you think about it, these characters have been hanging in limbo for about 10 years. So, the fact that they barely rate a "blip" on Traveller's collective radar screen is not suprising.
So, to know where you're going, you need to know where you've been. That's why, in this very post, I'm going to post a short synopsis of TDOW so that the events and characters are more fresh in your mind as we move closer to The Backwards Mask.
So, here is the shorter-than-a-dust-jacket version of the events of The Death of Wisdom along with a short description of some of the major players involved. This is by no means meant to be comprehensive, so all you Deep Six fans (and you know who you are), don't feel shorted.
Okay, so let's make it official...
****SPOILER ALERT****
You have been warned.
Here goes:
Plot Summary:
The Death of Wisdom follows the adventures of the RCS Hornet and her valiant crew. Thanks to some technological additions, courtesy of the Hivers, the 80-year old Jayhawk-class far trader is able to handle situations normally outside her scope.
What starts out as a fairly straightforward mission to deliver trade goods to the planet Ra, quickly becomes much more complicated. The heroes stumble onto a conspiracy to spread a deadly Solomani biological weapon called Fologorex II, which is tailor-made to kill Hivers. Through their travels they find that the plot is being directed by the Guild, with the backing of the Novastar megacorporation, and a notorious space pirate acting as the hatchet man. If successful, this plan could potentially destroy the fragile RC that looks to the Hivers as a source of technical stability, ultimately throwing the peace into chaos.
When the Hiver Technical advisor on the Hornet, becomes infected, the crew redoubles their efforts to search for the conspirators. After a series of stops going into The Wilds, the Hornet is able to trace the conspiracy back to its source on Sauler. There they are able to neutralize the masterminds behind the scheme, with the unlikely help of the space pirates, and contain the biological threat.
Main Characters:
Coeur d’Esprit “Red Sun” : The commander of the RCS Hornet, she is a remnant left over from the last days of the 3rd Imperium. She is a very calm, competent, and reliable commander even in the direst of circumstances. Even though she served the Imperium well, she disliked the idea of the Nobility, and much prefers the more democratic government of the RC. She is devoted to protecting the ideals of her adopted government in any way.
Vin Escher “Drop Kick” : A native of Aubaine, Drop Kick is the leader of the Marines stationed on the Hornet. He is tough as nails, and often leads the ground missions for Red Sun. He has a strong dislike for Oriflamme and their political games, but his opinions are softened as a meaningful relationship develops with Snapshot, the ship’s gunner, who is from Oriflamme.
Cicero “Scissor”: The Hiver technical advisor, it is responsible for getting the greater part of the Hornet’s Crew together. It demonstrates the inscrutability of Hivers to humans, and often moves the story along with its manipulations. Unfortunately, it dies from Fologorex II before their mission is complete.
Dr. Orit Takagawa “Physic” : A brilliant doctor and xenobiologist, she has a very personal stake in finding a cure to the outbreak – her husband, the chairman of Novastar Inc, is one of the conspirators behind this plot, and he used her to get the information he needed. The two were separated, and Physic had hoped for a reconciliation before she found out the extent of his betrayal. Deep down, she blames herself for the death of Cicero.
Vega Zorn: A space pirate of some reputation, Zorn has some serious bad blood with the Hivers, and believes that humanity would be better off without their “influence”. The only group that she hates worse than Hivers is the Guild. Though it seemed like she was going to become the arch-nemesis of the heroes, she helps them at the end against the Guild, forging a rather unstable alliance that will carry forward
into the next book.
Denise Valencia “Snapshot”: A student of Red Sun’s, she was the second best gunner at the Technical Academy, next to Gyro, the ship’s Exo. She is a native of Oriflamme, and possesses a short temper when confronted with anti-Oriflammen sentiments. Despite herself, she is drawn to Drop Kick, whom she's come to realize is a kindred spirit.
Okay, so there you have it - an "at a glance" look at the TDOW. Obviously, that's the short, short version of things. If anyone requires additional details on the subject, I'll see what I can do.
Now, bring on the debate. I want everyone that has an opinion good or bad on this novel to weigh in. I'll jump in from time to time and add my two cents. Once we've discussed TDOW pretty thoroughly, then I'll post the TDOC synopsis and we can go round and round again.
Let the games begin.
Thanks for the welcome all around. I'm very excited to work on The Backwards Mask project, so it's good to see some excitement on your part as well. It does my heart good.
Now this time around I come bearing a brief recap of The Death of Wisdom as well as some related character callouts. But before I get into that, let me address some of your questions.
Kafka47
Curious about my Traveller street cred, eh? Well here goes: I graduated 2nd in my class at the Imperial Naval Academy with full marks in Jump Theory, Fleet Tactics and Classical Terran Literature...
Okay, all kidding aside, I was introduced to Traveller "only" 10 years ago. I know that makes me late in coming to the party compared to a number of those here that have been around since Day 1.
I cut my teeth on the T4/Milieu Zero era, but the gentleman who ran the game was also fond of CT & MT, so he introduced elements of both into the original game. For a first timer, it was a good all around look at the TU. I had a distinct "you had me at hello" moment with Traveller when my friend was describing some of the TU's basic tenets. He said:
"When Earth started exploring space, we started running into to other humans. The reason being, that an ancient race of super-powerful aliens seeded humaniti throughout the stars leaving pyraminds and Easter Island statues wherever they went."
I was sold from that point on. And then my friend added:
"Oh, and while The Ancients were on Earth, they also took wolves and evolved them into a sophont species that often act as raiders and pirates."
My jaw dropped. Humanoid wolves? In space? Who are also pirates? Where do I sign up? Even today, the Vargr remain one of my favorites among the Major Races.
So, that is how I got started in Traveller, and I've been hooked ever since.
Now, to speak to your point about consistency between TBM and 1248. My primary concern is to make The Backwards Mask consistent with the other two novels. That is not to say that it will step on the toes of 1248, because like I said before, I like consistency.
That said, however, TBM is not designed to be a "linking" novel between regular TNE and 1248, it's just going to bring the trilogy to a conclusion. Marc has told me that MJD will get signoff on it as well. It is my hope that if there are any glaring inconsistencies (such as Oriflamme's sun suddenly going supernova, or Commodore Lathrop sprouting a third eye) then we hope to address them then. Make sense?
As far as what I've done before, this will be my first novel to make it to publication. There are others I have at various stages of completion, but TBM will be the first one off the mark.
Bill
I thank you for your vote of confidence.
Although, I may have agree to disagree with you about the Paul Brunette novels. By several orders of magnitude, they are most certainly not the worst game-related fiction I've read. In fact they're not anywhere close to the worst. I won't name any names, but in my time time, sir, I've seen some real stinkers.
But, cooking is a matter of taste, I suppose. I would be very interested, in as much detail as you wish to give me, to know why you thought TDOW and TDOC were biohazards. Honestly, I want to know.
And that goes for the rest of you as well. I want to know what made dyed-in-the-wool Travellers groan or call foul. What were those things that went against the Traveller grain that made you lose interest?
And for those valiant souls out there, I would also like to hear about what you did like about them. When it comes to TDOW & TDOC, I don't want to always focus on the negative. They do, after all, lead up the story I'm writing and I have to love it for it to work. I think you get my drift.
Jim
I can understand about being hazy on the specifics of the book. I've read both novels many times through, recently I might add, and I'm still having to go back and re-read passages from the two to make sure I get my facts straight. Yeah, my copies are looking a bit rough...
And when you think about it, these characters have been hanging in limbo for about 10 years. So, the fact that they barely rate a "blip" on Traveller's collective radar screen is not suprising.
So, to know where you're going, you need to know where you've been. That's why, in this very post, I'm going to post a short synopsis of TDOW so that the events and characters are more fresh in your mind as we move closer to The Backwards Mask.
So, here is the shorter-than-a-dust-jacket version of the events of The Death of Wisdom along with a short description of some of the major players involved. This is by no means meant to be comprehensive, so all you Deep Six fans (and you know who you are), don't feel shorted.
Okay, so let's make it official...
****SPOILER ALERT****
You have been warned.
Plot Summary:
The Death of Wisdom follows the adventures of the RCS Hornet and her valiant crew. Thanks to some technological additions, courtesy of the Hivers, the 80-year old Jayhawk-class far trader is able to handle situations normally outside her scope.
What starts out as a fairly straightforward mission to deliver trade goods to the planet Ra, quickly becomes much more complicated. The heroes stumble onto a conspiracy to spread a deadly Solomani biological weapon called Fologorex II, which is tailor-made to kill Hivers. Through their travels they find that the plot is being directed by the Guild, with the backing of the Novastar megacorporation, and a notorious space pirate acting as the hatchet man. If successful, this plan could potentially destroy the fragile RC that looks to the Hivers as a source of technical stability, ultimately throwing the peace into chaos.
When the Hiver Technical advisor on the Hornet, becomes infected, the crew redoubles their efforts to search for the conspirators. After a series of stops going into The Wilds, the Hornet is able to trace the conspiracy back to its source on Sauler. There they are able to neutralize the masterminds behind the scheme, with the unlikely help of the space pirates, and contain the biological threat.
Main Characters:
Coeur d’Esprit “Red Sun” : The commander of the RCS Hornet, she is a remnant left over from the last days of the 3rd Imperium. She is a very calm, competent, and reliable commander even in the direst of circumstances. Even though she served the Imperium well, she disliked the idea of the Nobility, and much prefers the more democratic government of the RC. She is devoted to protecting the ideals of her adopted government in any way.
Vin Escher “Drop Kick” : A native of Aubaine, Drop Kick is the leader of the Marines stationed on the Hornet. He is tough as nails, and often leads the ground missions for Red Sun. He has a strong dislike for Oriflamme and their political games, but his opinions are softened as a meaningful relationship develops with Snapshot, the ship’s gunner, who is from Oriflamme.
Cicero “Scissor”: The Hiver technical advisor, it is responsible for getting the greater part of the Hornet’s Crew together. It demonstrates the inscrutability of Hivers to humans, and often moves the story along with its manipulations. Unfortunately, it dies from Fologorex II before their mission is complete.
Dr. Orit Takagawa “Physic” : A brilliant doctor and xenobiologist, she has a very personal stake in finding a cure to the outbreak – her husband, the chairman of Novastar Inc, is one of the conspirators behind this plot, and he used her to get the information he needed. The two were separated, and Physic had hoped for a reconciliation before she found out the extent of his betrayal. Deep down, she blames herself for the death of Cicero.
Vega Zorn: A space pirate of some reputation, Zorn has some serious bad blood with the Hivers, and believes that humanity would be better off without their “influence”. The only group that she hates worse than Hivers is the Guild. Though it seemed like she was going to become the arch-nemesis of the heroes, she helps them at the end against the Guild, forging a rather unstable alliance that will carry forward
into the next book.
Denise Valencia “Snapshot”: A student of Red Sun’s, she was the second best gunner at the Technical Academy, next to Gyro, the ship’s Exo. She is a native of Oriflamme, and possesses a short temper when confronted with anti-Oriflammen sentiments. Despite herself, she is drawn to Drop Kick, whom she's come to realize is a kindred spirit.
Okay, so there you have it - an "at a glance" look at the TDOW. Obviously, that's the short, short version of things. If anyone requires additional details on the subject, I'll see what I can do.
Now, bring on the debate. I want everyone that has an opinion good or bad on this novel to weigh in. I'll jump in from time to time and add my two cents. Once we've discussed TDOW pretty thoroughly, then I'll post the TDOC synopsis and we can go round and round again.
Let the games begin.
Hello Leonidas/Matt -
First of all, best of luck with the book. You're taking on a big order, hope it works out well.
I read the first book when it came out, haven't really looked at it since [and can't find my copy now that I'm hunting for it] but reading your post has brought parts of it back. If you're looking for opinions, here are a few:
Overall, the plot was okay, but the writing seemed aimed at someone a lot younger than me. So much so that I never bothered to pick up the second book.
One of the few things that I strongly remember was a passage where the characters in engineering had to work really really hard during the trip through jumpspace to make sure all the needles were centered on the liquid hydrogen coolant flow to the drive. I remember thinking "bull - that's a job for the computer or computer substitute" and that the writer really screwed the pooch on that one. They can build a hyperdrive but not a flow regulator?
Admittedly, it was a small thing, but it really brought me out of the book.
Thinking about that novel has gotten the memory going - it tried hard, and it wanted to do well, and I wanted to like it [having bought it, after all, and wanting to read a TNE novel] but I think it's worst shortcoming was the fact that it seemed to be written for someone of about twelve years of age, and not a 'big reading' twelve year old at that.
Like I said, I never picked up the second one - I saw it at the store, and did not even flirt with the idea of buying it. Since I bought pretty much everything else that came out for MegaTraveller and TNE [and gotten a couple friends to pick up copies of the FF&S with my enthusiasm], I should have been a slam-dunk sale on the books. But I read the first one and walked away.
I hope this helps.
Jon
First of all, best of luck with the book. You're taking on a big order, hope it works out well.
I read the first book when it came out, haven't really looked at it since [and can't find my copy now that I'm hunting for it] but reading your post has brought parts of it back. If you're looking for opinions, here are a few:
Overall, the plot was okay, but the writing seemed aimed at someone a lot younger than me. So much so that I never bothered to pick up the second book.
One of the few things that I strongly remember was a passage where the characters in engineering had to work really really hard during the trip through jumpspace to make sure all the needles were centered on the liquid hydrogen coolant flow to the drive. I remember thinking "bull - that's a job for the computer or computer substitute" and that the writer really screwed the pooch on that one. They can build a hyperdrive but not a flow regulator?
Admittedly, it was a small thing, but it really brought me out of the book.
Thinking about that novel has gotten the memory going - it tried hard, and it wanted to do well, and I wanted to like it [having bought it, after all, and wanting to read a TNE novel] but I think it's worst shortcoming was the fact that it seemed to be written for someone of about twelve years of age, and not a 'big reading' twelve year old at that.
Like I said, I never picked up the second one - I saw it at the store, and did not even flirt with the idea of buying it. Since I bought pretty much everything else that came out for MegaTraveller and TNE [and gotten a couple friends to pick up copies of the FF&S with my enthusiasm], I should have been a slam-dunk sale on the books. But I read the first one and walked away.
I hope this helps.
Jon
Matt,
I've seen some stinkers too and sadly the internet has increased their numbers wildly. The TNE novles are among the worst books I've ever seen physically published outside of the vanity press industry.
Trees died, ink was bought, press time rented, boxes packed, and a myriad of other jobs performed to inflict them upon the Hobby. What was that famous line of Dorothy Parker's? This is not a book to be discarded lightly, it should thrown with great force.
True.
To say that the characters are wooden is to insult cigar store Indians. Each is straight out of central casting and has a 'depth' measured in microns. A wading pool resembles the Marianas Trench when compared to the depth displayed by the cast of the books. The characters resemble poorly programmed personality emulation programs and not human beings. Its as if Paul Brunette had a half dozen copies of the 'Lisa' program running in order to produce the characters' 'dialogue'.
'Red Sun' is a remnant. Everyone and everything she knew is dead. That's trillions of people and thousands of worlds, that's the 1000 year old empire she swore to serve. All dead in a holocaust that boggles the mind. The very government she swore an oath to is now an obscenity in the minds of the people she is working with. If anyone should have baggage or be wrestling with demons, it's 'Red Sun'. Yet, none of that is explored. Its hardly even mentioned.
'Drop Kick' and 'Snapshot' might as well be cardboard cut-outs. I had their so-called 'plot twist' figured as soon as they were introduced. The tired 'star crossed lovers' motif has been done so much that only Shakespeare can still pull it off. Paul Brunette could have tried something a little less hoary or cheesy, like they get the hots for each other but their opinions of each others' homeworlds prevents any meaningful relationship from developing. Hell, he could have even had them act like professional humans and ignore their feelings for each other because they're on the same crew and it would be bad for the ship and the mission.
I had the 'Sea Gypsy' kid figured as a martyr from the start too. He gets picked on and dies saving the ship all to 'teach' the crew an 'important lesson'. Its a deadtree version of an ABC Afterschool Special. I knew the Gunny who'd picked on him would end up biting it too. 'Bad guys' got to die to pound the point home, right? Even if they repent.
The subplot concerning the doctor and her 'evil' husband is too pat. Either the doc should be overcompensating for hubbie's treason or should be dealing with internal issues ala 'Red Sun'. Again, nothing bad really occurs and she is more or less trusted by the crew.
As for the aliens, who cares? The Schalli gets the blues and the Hiver sacrificed itself. Or did it? I would have preferred to see a more ambivalent attitude by Hornet's towards the Hiver. Aliens are just that, alien. A Cherryh-style alien would be preferable. We can work with them, but we really don't know them. There should have been moments when the aliens aboard acted 'alien'. Instead we got a xeno-dolphin who is a weepy drunk and an Hiver spiking the water supply with Scope. Wow, pinch me...
Other than the wretched characerizations, my biggest beef is the constant As You Know, Bob moments throughout both novels. Basil Exposition was funny in the 'Austin Powers' movies. The same technique can work in a novel when it is played for laughs too. In the TNE novels 'Basil Exposition' was dead serious.
I understand that a lot about the Traveller universe needs to be explained; jump drive, the Imperium, Virus, etc., but the way it was done by Paul Brunette was jarring. You could almost hear the gear shift grinding. Too many pages had an As You Know, Bob moment. As You Know, Bob, the Imperium was big... As You Know, Bob, we use jump drives... As You Know, Bob, you wasted time you'll never get back reading this crap....
Descriptions and expanations can worked into the text seamlessly. They were not in the TNE novels. For example, no one ever fired a 'gun'. Instead, it was always 'she drew her 5.5mm snub pistol with the 12 round magazine that could fire AP, HEAP, Tranq, Gas, and had circles and arrows on the back of each one explaining how they could be used for evidence against us in a court of law'.
Parts of the 'novels' read more like technical manuals, equipment lists, or RPG rules. These are novels, derived from a RPG game yes, but novels still.
That's just the stuff off the top of my pointy head. I read the books because I love Traveller. It took me several tries to get through each. And I did not discard them lightly when I was done.
Hope this helps.
Bill
epicenter00
SOC-13
My Cr0.02:
As Mssrs Cocker and Cameron pointed out, the TNE books were towards the bottom of a sub-genre (1) I don't really have high expectations of. I admit that I have a certain (perhaps masochistic) enjoyment of game-world fiction, but honestly, this stuff pushed Magic: The Gathering, Halo, and TORG novels into the realm of "entertaining yarns" while Warhammer 40,000 and Dragonlance books become the heights of literature in comparison.(2)
There's my requisite hyperbole. Onto my real perceptions of the book. To be honest, books like these are the equivalent of dumb beach reading for men - like Clive Cussler novels. Most of these books are oriented towards a primarily male audience of differing levels of literacy and attention span - so I hope something inspiring or thought-provoking, but I don't really get angry if I don't find it. Foremost in these kinds of books I expected a feel for the universe the book is set in.
I didn't get it. Instead, we had descriptions of how a desert reminded Red Sun of her home of Flagstaff (I think it was?) Arizona on Earth, the Schalli collecting psuedo-lobsters for the crew to eat, and jarring passages that looked like FF&S flavor text for equipment and weapons. The characters weren't easily identified with, the settings prosiac and interchangable, and I never really got a good grip for the universe.
The books were written in a style that made me feel like I'd been transported back in time to one of the worse offerings of Hugo Gernsback's pulp magazines (perhaps not all that far from the truth?).(3) Between the jarring juxtaposition Flash Gordon-style RCES bodysleeves and the "ray-guns" potrayed in a lot of TNE main rulebook (4) and the more grim nitty-gritty of decaying technology and an civilization rising from the ashes, I was searching pretty desperately for what the "real" tone of TNE was supposed to be. The books didn't help me one whit. Bongo's Twilight: 2000-style monologues in the TNE rules helped me a lot more than the novels ever did (and were better written to boot!).
If Red Sun is supposed to be a more identifable character because she's closer to reader's time and place (5), it didn't really work. She never really had a good dialogue with a Coalition type who could have been used to highlight the differences between the Third Imperium and RC and in so doing, help those unfamiliar with the Third Imperium get a feel for that entity. (6)
In any new book, I'd like to get more of a feel for the canoncial RC on the human level with the characters as vehicles to that end. I'd like to see the electrifying enthusiasm of the Aubaine Auction, the heartbreaking desolation of worlds where billions died in the Final War long before Virus. How do different people in the RC feel about the Wilds? The Guild? Each other? It'd be nice to see that in ways that aren't so stilted they're painful. If you can pull that off and write a book where I'm not getting the impression I'm being talked down to and I'll certainly pay the bucks for the PDFs.
(1) There was some utterly unreadable novelization based on Planescape: Torment that I believe was worse than Brunette's books, but that's about all that comes to mind under the category of "worse."
(2) And yes, I've read all of those mentioned titles. Many, I even enjoyed on some level. I'm still waiting for Tavrchedl' to come take me away and make a normal person.
(3) Comparing Brunette's work with "A Martian Odyssey" by Stanley G. Weinbaum is pretty illustrative of what I mean.
(4) Take for instance the pic on page 42 of first print of the TNE rules. "Commander Zorn and Princess Ardelle on the Ice-World of Frigidia seeking the Earther ship of Flash Gordon."
(5) Yes, Red Sun being from Earth a mere 3600-odd years from now as opposed to everyone else who are from other planets a whopping 3700-odd years from now.
(6) And come on, her name? Coeur d’Esprit? Sheesh. San'klaass, anyone? The theme of excessive self-indulgent back-patting and in-jokes in GDW's products was getting to be insulting to my intelligence and the novels seemed to gleefully latch onto the concept that players of TNE were literally idiots and no matter how inane the in-jokes introduced in TNE were, we'd never "get it." My stance on GDW and its employees/contributors has softened considerably since then. What's done is done and there's no way to change the names of characters, but minimizing the effects of such idiotic names would be nice.
As Mssrs Cocker and Cameron pointed out, the TNE books were towards the bottom of a sub-genre (1) I don't really have high expectations of. I admit that I have a certain (perhaps masochistic) enjoyment of game-world fiction, but honestly, this stuff pushed Magic: The Gathering, Halo, and TORG novels into the realm of "entertaining yarns" while Warhammer 40,000 and Dragonlance books become the heights of literature in comparison.(2)
There's my requisite hyperbole. Onto my real perceptions of the book. To be honest, books like these are the equivalent of dumb beach reading for men - like Clive Cussler novels. Most of these books are oriented towards a primarily male audience of differing levels of literacy and attention span - so I hope something inspiring or thought-provoking, but I don't really get angry if I don't find it. Foremost in these kinds of books I expected a feel for the universe the book is set in.
I didn't get it. Instead, we had descriptions of how a desert reminded Red Sun of her home of Flagstaff (I think it was?) Arizona on Earth, the Schalli collecting psuedo-lobsters for the crew to eat, and jarring passages that looked like FF&S flavor text for equipment and weapons. The characters weren't easily identified with, the settings prosiac and interchangable, and I never really got a good grip for the universe.
The books were written in a style that made me feel like I'd been transported back in time to one of the worse offerings of Hugo Gernsback's pulp magazines (perhaps not all that far from the truth?).(3) Between the jarring juxtaposition Flash Gordon-style RCES bodysleeves and the "ray-guns" potrayed in a lot of TNE main rulebook (4) and the more grim nitty-gritty of decaying technology and an civilization rising from the ashes, I was searching pretty desperately for what the "real" tone of TNE was supposed to be. The books didn't help me one whit. Bongo's Twilight: 2000-style monologues in the TNE rules helped me a lot more than the novels ever did (and were better written to boot!).
If Red Sun is supposed to be a more identifable character because she's closer to reader's time and place (5), it didn't really work. She never really had a good dialogue with a Coalition type who could have been used to highlight the differences between the Third Imperium and RC and in so doing, help those unfamiliar with the Third Imperium get a feel for that entity. (6)
In any new book, I'd like to get more of a feel for the canoncial RC on the human level with the characters as vehicles to that end. I'd like to see the electrifying enthusiasm of the Aubaine Auction, the heartbreaking desolation of worlds where billions died in the Final War long before Virus. How do different people in the RC feel about the Wilds? The Guild? Each other? It'd be nice to see that in ways that aren't so stilted they're painful. If you can pull that off and write a book where I'm not getting the impression I'm being talked down to and I'll certainly pay the bucks for the PDFs.
(1) There was some utterly unreadable novelization based on Planescape: Torment that I believe was worse than Brunette's books, but that's about all that comes to mind under the category of "worse."
(2) And yes, I've read all of those mentioned titles. Many, I even enjoyed on some level. I'm still waiting for Tavrchedl' to come take me away and make a normal person.
(3) Comparing Brunette's work with "A Martian Odyssey" by Stanley G. Weinbaum is pretty illustrative of what I mean.
(4) Take for instance the pic on page 42 of first print of the TNE rules. "Commander Zorn and Princess Ardelle on the Ice-World of Frigidia seeking the Earther ship of Flash Gordon."
(5) Yes, Red Sun being from Earth a mere 3600-odd years from now as opposed to everyone else who are from other planets a whopping 3700-odd years from now.
(6) And come on, her name? Coeur d’Esprit? Sheesh. San'klaass, anyone? The theme of excessive self-indulgent back-patting and in-jokes in GDW's products was getting to be insulting to my intelligence and the novels seemed to gleefully latch onto the concept that players of TNE were literally idiots and no matter how inane the in-jokes introduced in TNE were, we'd never "get it." My stance on GDW and its employees/contributors has softened considerably since then. What's done is done and there's no way to change the names of characters, but minimizing the effects of such idiotic names would be nice.
I found the original pair to be poor, to say the least. When the guy dies or radiation poisoning saving the ship, I couldn't rememebr who he was. Or cared enough to flip back.
One Marine got nailed in the second book and I just frowned and thought 'hey, wasn't this guy already dead?' or was that a different cardboard cutout?
And travelling for a month through space in a ship the size of a bunglalow, these people managed not to come into contact much. Eh?
The first two are very poor with occasional decent moments. The third one will be a lot better because if not I'm not going to sign off on it (how's that for abuse of power).
Nah, it's going to be better because we're going to make it better. I've sent a 1248 manuscript through and I'll give whatever help I can....
One Marine got nailed in the second book and I just frowned and thought 'hey, wasn't this guy already dead?' or was that a different cardboard cutout?
And travelling for a month through space in a ship the size of a bunglalow, these people managed not to come into contact much. Eh?
The first two are very poor with occasional decent moments. The third one will be a lot better because if not I'm not going to sign off on it (how's that for abuse of power).
Nah, it's going to be better because we're going to make it better. I've sent a 1248 manuscript through and I'll give whatever help I can....
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
Wow - I am really impressed that you guys remember these books so well.
I remember the main points (Red Sun, the Hiver plot) but I have very little memory of the other particulars of the book (Red Sun being from Arizona, the doctor sub-plot the "kid").
I guess that is a pretty good illustration of how much of an impression it left in my consciousness.
I am pretty sure that I ditched the books at least two moves ago. How soon can the "combined" release be available to refresh the memories of those who (consciously or not) don't remember all these particulars?
I remember the main points (Red Sun, the Hiver plot) but I have very little memory of the other particulars of the book (Red Sun being from Arizona, the doctor sub-plot the "kid").
I guess that is a pretty good illustration of how much of an impression it left in my consciousness.
I am pretty sure that I ditched the books at least two moves ago. How soon can the "combined" release be available to refresh the memories of those who (consciously or not) don't remember all these particulars?
Greetings everyone,
Thank you all for putting in your CR 0.02. There are some important points that were brought up here, and I’d like to take some time to address them. *takes a deep breath*
Here we go…
Jon Crocker
There is an interesting contrast between the first novel and the second. To Dream of Chaos seemed, at least to me, far more complicated in the way the story developed. The first one reminded me of a travelogue of sorts, detailing the Hornet’s voyage from Aubaine to Ra, and then on to Sauler. At each stop there’s some sort of clue that keeps them moving further into the Wilds until they finally square off with The Guild at Sauler. It was a fairly simple progression, and like you said, seemed scaled down in the way it was told.
To Dream of Chaos focused more on what the Crew did once they arrived at their destination, then how they got there. So, to me, the second novel seemed like it had more meat to it. Once the heroes get to their destination at Mexit, there are all sorts of weird things going around them, and there’s more textual space devoted to describing these events. That doesn’t necessarily make it a better read, but it seemed like there was more to it.
So, I think the reading level of the second is somewhat higher than the first. Maybe not a whole lot, but some. It is my hope that The Backwards Mask will hit the target on this point. Of course as a writer you have to sometimes re-invent the wheel to make a book able to stand on its own, but there’s a way to do it without insulting the intelligence of your reader. I hate it when authors do that to me when I read their stuff, and who wants to pass on bad mojo?
Bill Cameron
I think you’ve struck on an extremely pertinent point, and one that I hope to address in TBWM – characterizations. As I’ve said before, I don’t want to continually focus on the negative of the TDOW & TDOC, but these things need to be addressed as frankly as possible.
That said, the character development of the Hornet’s crew was the biggest stumbling block for me the first time I read the novels. There are points where the characters briefly shine and give you a hint of their potential, but too often they come off as being kind of vacuous, particularly in TDOW.
There was never that feeling of the characters being real to me. They seemed kind of formulaic and blasé. And if you can’t make a connection with the reader, or identify with people in the story, then you’re left with a big ol’ “why do we care?” Ultimately, if you don’t care for the characters, the story’s going to be a write off.
Red Sun, for example, was forever calm and collected. She seemed to always know what to do in exactly the right way in every situation. That makes her an effective starship captain, but kind of vanilla. In TBWM, you get a glimpse beneath that calm exterior and see the person behind the mask. Perhaps she radiates calm, but there’s more going on behind the face she chooses to present to the world.
Similarly, in TBWM my goal is to deepen the pool for all the characters. Each of them have something to contribute to the cause, and there’s a lot more character insight. While I may have inherited the characters and their history, I still want the characters to come alive in the minds of the reader. That’s the goal, anyway.
Epicenter00
When I first read through the two books, my impression of Red Sun was not that she was supposed to be more accessible because she came from a time closer to our own, but rather because she was from Earth, specifically the Phoenix Arcology. Oddly enough, that makes her a Solomani, who would have grown up during the time they were building up. And yet, just about every flashback she has, including her origin story, deals with her fighting against the icky Solomani on behalf of the Imperium. Oh, and she didn’t really like the Imperium either…whew, talk about mixed messages.
But you also hit on another sticking point with me – the names. When I think of the names I have to work with here, there are two things that run through my mind. 1.) The character’s taccode 2.) Their real name.
First, let me get this out of the way, I never really cared for the taccodes. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone’s TNE sensibilities, but when you introduce callsigns like that, it seems like your players immediately start arguing over whose going to be Maverick and whose going to be Iceman. This can work for fighter pilots, but it loses something when everyone has them. Marines, Navy, Technicians, Professors, Accountants and Janitors all seem to have taccodes of their own. And just for the record, Whiz Bang and Bonzo are good examples of bad code names…
Secondly, the taccode often completely subsumed the character’s real name in the previous two novels. You never find out Bonzo, Whiz Bang, Mercy or Crowbar’s real name. The only hint of Crowbar’s name is almost a throw away mention when he’s in a bar. To me that gets a bit cumbersome when you see something like:
Gee, it’s really cold in here, Crowbar thought.
Even in purely internal references they are still referred to by their taccode! Every once in a while for brevity's sake it's cool, but every reference? Makes it a little less personal, don’t you think?
And then there’s Red Sun’s real name. Coeur D’Esprit seems to be a thinly veiled reference to esprit de'corp . And Coeur means “heart” in French. I guess it was meant to show that she was supposed to embody the spirit or heart of the RCES/TNE. I don’t know. For my own part it doesn’t look particularly good when you see it on paper, and it’s hard to spell consistently. Trust me…I know.
But, the fact of the matter is, I can’t really do anything about the taccodes. They’re there in the history, so they will be there in the TBWM as well. But, I will tell you that the true name of each character will be revealed at some point in the text. Those characters whose true name is already known, such as Gyro and Snapshot, will have those names used more often than just a passing mention.
MJD
That’s right, we will make it better…um, sir.
At the risk of sounding ingratiating to my new boss, I am greatly looking forward working with you, MJD. Really, Scout’s Honor…
Jim,
I’m not sure of the exact date when the PDF re-release of TDOW & TDOC will happen. I’ll see if I can find out for you, though. More on that as it develops.
So, there you have it. I appreciate everyone’s contribution. Keep it coming. And, of course, questions are always welcome. It keeps the wheels in my head turning.
My next post here will contain my synopsis of To Dream of Chaos. That will start to lead us up to where I pick up with The Backwards Mask.
Until next time…
Si vales, valeo.
-MC
Thank you all for putting in your CR 0.02. There are some important points that were brought up here, and I’d like to take some time to address them. *takes a deep breath*
Here we go…
Jon Crocker
There is an interesting contrast between the first novel and the second. To Dream of Chaos seemed, at least to me, far more complicated in the way the story developed. The first one reminded me of a travelogue of sorts, detailing the Hornet’s voyage from Aubaine to Ra, and then on to Sauler. At each stop there’s some sort of clue that keeps them moving further into the Wilds until they finally square off with The Guild at Sauler. It was a fairly simple progression, and like you said, seemed scaled down in the way it was told.
To Dream of Chaos focused more on what the Crew did once they arrived at their destination, then how they got there. So, to me, the second novel seemed like it had more meat to it. Once the heroes get to their destination at Mexit, there are all sorts of weird things going around them, and there’s more textual space devoted to describing these events. That doesn’t necessarily make it a better read, but it seemed like there was more to it.
So, I think the reading level of the second is somewhat higher than the first. Maybe not a whole lot, but some. It is my hope that The Backwards Mask will hit the target on this point. Of course as a writer you have to sometimes re-invent the wheel to make a book able to stand on its own, but there’s a way to do it without insulting the intelligence of your reader. I hate it when authors do that to me when I read their stuff, and who wants to pass on bad mojo?
Bill Cameron
I think you’ve struck on an extremely pertinent point, and one that I hope to address in TBWM – characterizations. As I’ve said before, I don’t want to continually focus on the negative of the TDOW & TDOC, but these things need to be addressed as frankly as possible.
That said, the character development of the Hornet’s crew was the biggest stumbling block for me the first time I read the novels. There are points where the characters briefly shine and give you a hint of their potential, but too often they come off as being kind of vacuous, particularly in TDOW.
There was never that feeling of the characters being real to me. They seemed kind of formulaic and blasé. And if you can’t make a connection with the reader, or identify with people in the story, then you’re left with a big ol’ “why do we care?” Ultimately, if you don’t care for the characters, the story’s going to be a write off.
Red Sun, for example, was forever calm and collected. She seemed to always know what to do in exactly the right way in every situation. That makes her an effective starship captain, but kind of vanilla. In TBWM, you get a glimpse beneath that calm exterior and see the person behind the mask. Perhaps she radiates calm, but there’s more going on behind the face she chooses to present to the world.
Similarly, in TBWM my goal is to deepen the pool for all the characters. Each of them have something to contribute to the cause, and there’s a lot more character insight. While I may have inherited the characters and their history, I still want the characters to come alive in the minds of the reader. That’s the goal, anyway.
Epicenter00
When I first read through the two books, my impression of Red Sun was not that she was supposed to be more accessible because she came from a time closer to our own, but rather because she was from Earth, specifically the Phoenix Arcology. Oddly enough, that makes her a Solomani, who would have grown up during the time they were building up. And yet, just about every flashback she has, including her origin story, deals with her fighting against the icky Solomani on behalf of the Imperium. Oh, and she didn’t really like the Imperium either…whew, talk about mixed messages.
But you also hit on another sticking point with me – the names. When I think of the names I have to work with here, there are two things that run through my mind. 1.) The character’s taccode 2.) Their real name.
First, let me get this out of the way, I never really cared for the taccodes. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone’s TNE sensibilities, but when you introduce callsigns like that, it seems like your players immediately start arguing over whose going to be Maverick and whose going to be Iceman. This can work for fighter pilots, but it loses something when everyone has them. Marines, Navy, Technicians, Professors, Accountants and Janitors all seem to have taccodes of their own. And just for the record, Whiz Bang and Bonzo are good examples of bad code names…
Secondly, the taccode often completely subsumed the character’s real name in the previous two novels. You never find out Bonzo, Whiz Bang, Mercy or Crowbar’s real name. The only hint of Crowbar’s name is almost a throw away mention when he’s in a bar. To me that gets a bit cumbersome when you see something like:
Gee, it’s really cold in here, Crowbar thought.
Even in purely internal references they are still referred to by their taccode! Every once in a while for brevity's sake it's cool, but every reference? Makes it a little less personal, don’t you think?
And then there’s Red Sun’s real name. Coeur D’Esprit seems to be a thinly veiled reference to esprit de'corp . And Coeur means “heart” in French. I guess it was meant to show that she was supposed to embody the spirit or heart of the RCES/TNE. I don’t know. For my own part it doesn’t look particularly good when you see it on paper, and it’s hard to spell consistently. Trust me…I know.
But, the fact of the matter is, I can’t really do anything about the taccodes. They’re there in the history, so they will be there in the TBWM as well. But, I will tell you that the true name of each character will be revealed at some point in the text. Those characters whose true name is already known, such as Gyro and Snapshot, will have those names used more often than just a passing mention.
MJD
That’s right, we will make it better…um, sir.
At the risk of sounding ingratiating to my new boss, I am greatly looking forward working with you, MJD. Really, Scout’s Honor…
Jim,
I’m not sure of the exact date when the PDF re-release of TDOW & TDOC will happen. I’ll see if I can find out for you, though. More on that as it develops.
So, there you have it. I appreciate everyone’s contribution. Keep it coming. And, of course, questions are always welcome. It keeps the wheels in my head turning.
My next post here will contain my synopsis of To Dream of Chaos. That will start to lead us up to where I pick up with The Backwards Mask.
Until next time…
Si vales, valeo.
-MC
