Tech Progression and what was

[ThunderChilde]

Batting around some ideas and looking for some feedback and discussion.

1. Fusion in the 3I and it's near by neighbors is of the Fusion+ variety that was the corner stone of the founding of the 3I. Cleon the 1st is reported to have made the breakthrough on it, or his Mega-corp whatever.

So, what was a fusion plant like before Fusion+?

2. What is the likely hood of all sophonts adhering tightly to the TTL table?

How common would uneven tech advances be? Say, lagging on Fusion, or Medicine, or material sciences? Or say a spike in Computer tech well above the rest?

 

[aramis]

2. What is the likely hood of all sophonts adhering tightly to the TTL table?

How common would uneven tech advances be? Say, lagging on Fusion, or Medicine, or material sciences? Or say a spike in Computer tech well above the rest?

Well, we know from canon sources that Hivers have +1 over norm on computers and robots, Solomani have +1 on medicine and -1 to gravitics. The Darrians are TL F only in materials and power plants, nothing else.

The Sambquis are TL G, but don't do off-world. Heck, most don't even do "down the street"... so they effectively have TL8 drives.

In the OTU, very little is off-charts, and what is is broad-brush.

WBH and WTH both allow explicitly subdividing the techlevels...

 

[Gadrin]

I think they were just bigger.

Courtesy of Milieu-Zero Book:

Fusion Plus units were originally manufactured starting in Year -28, but
until Year 3, the only place a unit could be serviced was on Sylea because
all units were “factory sealed” encapsulated units, with a great deal of
effort put into preventing reverse-engineering of them. Eventually, of
course, someone managed to reverse-engineer and duplicate the technology, at
which point Cleon Industries released the TL12 version to keep its
competitive lead. Cleon is, obviously, willing to take some financial risks
to expand the Imperium, sacrificing short-term profit for longterm gain.

I think for the most part TTL was broken up by Jump #s, but you can
look at various books and find the actual TL for that item/science
in the entry (T4 Central Supply Catalog has it, MegaTraveller too).

As for each race ? I don't think things went that deep (not that they
couldn't have), unless it's just stuff I never came across.

GURPS Traveller First-In has a nice technology section in the back
where it goes thru the various types of Tech Areas, and then TL by
TL (in GURPS TLs) gets into detail about what occurs when. It might
be in other versions too. LBBs showed a general table on TL and
technology types.

>

 

[Sturn]

So, what was a fusion plant like before Fusion+?

Just bigger from my understanding. The minimum size for a power plant was much larger. The Fusion+ allowed small-scale plants such as those used in Battledress.

I might be completely remembering it wrong, but in some places it seems implied that Fusion+ was a TL 12 advance. A.i. the Sylean Federation and early 3rd Imperium moving to TL 12 included discovery of Fusion+ and Jump 3. But, doesn't T5 (or is it somewhere else?) discuss special sorts of technological leaps that some civilizations discover, some don't, and Fusion+ is one of them? A.i. You could be TL 15 and not have Fusion+. Or you could be TL 10 and haven't discovered jump drive (one of the minor races).

......Solomani have +1 on medicine and -1 to gravitics....

I recall reading in a MT source that Solomani are behind when it comes to gravitics. I don't recall the advanced medicine, please tell me where to look.

Were the "+1" and "-1" actually stated someplace or just discussed as being ahead or behind?

 

[aramis]

I don't have the books to hand, but I'm fairly certain it is in either AM Solomani or Solomani & Aslan. Note that the +1 Comp/Robot for hivers is in Robots, IIRC. Also, ISTR either Grand Census or WBH includes the profile for earth, including medical tech being higher.

Note also that Solomani engage in Gengeneering and Uplifting. That's TL13 stuff... and have done so for centuries... since we have terran uplifts pre 3I, that's probably during the RoM, which was peak TL12... but that's an extrapolation.

 

[Starviking]

Solomani have +1 on medicine and -1 to gravitics.

I could never quite get my head around the Sollies not being as good as the 3I at gravitics - they only split from them a few hundred years ago.

 

[Lycanorukke]

I don't have the books to hand, but I'm fairly certain it is in either AM Solomani or Solomani & Aslan.

Page 36 of Rats & Cats has it

Solomani Medicine - "With the highly advanced state of life sciences in the Solomani sphere, it is not surprising that the level of medical technology is higher in the confederaiton than elsewhere in charted space".
Solomani vehicles - "While they are well built they are lacking in performance, especially when it comes to gravitic technology. The solomani developed grav tech later than most other cultures".

From the world data (with impies being tech F). - Solomani med tech is G, vehicle tech is E, all others F.

From Trav Digest #13 (Earth p26) - (couldn't find anything glancing in AM6)
Communications, Medical and Enviromental tech is 16
Land/water/air transport is 14
Everything else 15

 

[aramis]

I could never quite get my head around the Sollies not being as good as the 3I at gravitics - they only split from them a few hundred years ago.

they never were "3I"... they were a client state of domain size.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

they never were "3I"... they were a client state of domain size.

Yes they were the 3I.

They are declared an Autonomous Region within the 3I, but before this declaration they were just a part of the 3I like any other.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[Sturn]

How far back would the tech differences go? I mean was the 2nd Imperium, originally ruled from Terra, also deficient in gravitics? If so, does that mean the 1st Imperium was also since most of the 2nd Imperium was made up of previous 1st Imperium?

Or did the Solomani later fall behind only during the rise of the 3rd Imperium? As in they didn't keep up with the latest gravitics when both Solomani and Sylea/3rd Imperium advanced from TL 12 to TL 15.

Kinda hard to believe that the greater Rule of Man enjoyed TL 12 gravitics before its fall, but back in the technological capital of the empire, they actually are at only TL 11 gravitics.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Just bigger from my understanding. The minimum size for a power plant was much larger. The Fusion+ allowed small-scale plants such as those used in Battledress.

I might be completely remembering it wrong, but in some places it seems implied that Fusion+ was a TL 12 advance. A.i. the Sylean Federation and early 3rd Imperium moving to TL 12 included discovery of Fusion+ and Jump 3. But, doesn't T5 (or is it somewhere else?) discuss special sorts of technological leaps that some civilizations discover, some don't, and Fusion+ is one of them? A.i. You could be TL 15 and not have Fusion+. Or you could be TL 10 and haven't discovered jump drive (one of the minor races).

So are we talking X1.5 to X3 size increase? From what I've read it was a fairly dramatic advance on what was around at the time. I suppose it would also have a higher fuel consumption rate, and perhaps maintenence needs too.

On a wider note, thank you for the feedback one and all, keep it coming.
__________________

 

[Sturn]

So are we talking X1.5 to X3 size increase? From what I've read it was a fairly dramatic advance on what was around at the time. I suppose it would also have a higher fuel consumption rate, and perhaps maintenence needs too.

I looked in T4's vehicle design system. I think T4 started the idea of Fusion+ (no Fusion+ in MT iirc, just rules for very smaller Fusion plants at higher tech). The charts I found in T4 have Fusion+ as early as TL 10, so that supports it as a "break-through" technology (like jump drives) that not every civilization discovers. Later game systems (I glanced at T20, but not TNE), went back to much smaller Fusion plants at higher TL, but didn't call them Fusion+ or consider breakthrough tech. I don't think I'm permitted to detail how T5 is handling it?

T4's TL 10 normal Fusion has a minimum volume of 500 m3, power of 2 MW per m3, and mass of 4tons per m3.

In comparison, TL 10 Fusion+ had a minimum volume of .02 m3, power of 3 MW per m3, and mass of 2 tons per m3.

Biggest difference is the minimum volume which is drastic. But, also 50% more efficient and half the weight.

So are we talking X1.5 to X3 size increase?

More difficult to translate T4 to a system that uses only displacement tons since T4 had a FFS based system that was much more detailed. Perhaps 1/3 the size in displacement tons and power plant charts for fusion that allow vehicle and weapon-sized powerplants?

 

[ThunderChilde]

Ty, so I take it that T5 would shed light on this issue? If so, I might have to go ahead and plonk down the pre-paid fee, if they are still sending out the beta disks.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Yes and deedy, T5 did inform and illuminate this issue, quite nicely too. Ty for mentioning that Sturn, it was the straw that broke the camels back on making the purchase of T5.

 

[Sturn]

Yes and deedy, T5 did inform and illuminate this issue, quite nicely too. Ty for mentioning that Sturn, it was the straw that broke the camels back on making the purchase of T5.

Glad to hear it. I've used T5 already as a great source of information even in it's unfinished state. The technology discussion is extensive when compared to previous Traveller versions.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Once again, thank you Sturn and T-5 almost certainly will not be my Traveller of choice, but oh what a tool box of ideas.:smirk:

I think that is all I am allowed to say about T-5.