Tech Level - Character Term or Game Term

[Major B]

Hans, you've brought up a point which brings to ming something that has been nagging me for awhile but I haven't had an opportunity to bring it up for discussion.

I hope not to drag to discussion off topic, at least not for too long. But, attempting to condense as much as possible, could you please provide your feelings on the use of the term "tech level" in the contect of communication originating within the 3I?

For me, I've always viewed the use of game terms as synonymous with AD&D players discussing how many hit points they held.

If this question is better addressed in a separate thread, say the word and I'll create one, but the question has niggled at me through many discussion on this board and I'd like to discuss it so I can come to a conclusion for MTU.

FYI, until my mind has changed, I've coined the term ETLAC (equipment technology level availability code) as a military substitute for TL when it comes to equipment fielding and collateral matters, but my mind (and files) are still open to suggestion on this subject.

 

[rancke]

If this question is better addressed in a separate thread, say the word and I'll create one, but the question has niggled at me through many discussion on this board and I'd like to discuss it so I can come to a conclusion for MTU.

I think it deserves a thread of its own. It's a real muddle, IMO.


Hans

 

[aramis]

I think it deserves a thread of its own. It's a real muddle, IMO.


Hans

Voilá, it's own thread!

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Tech Levels.

Now admittedly I snagged the term from gaming, or so I recall, but have found it a useful term for non-gaming discussions. Everything from history to current events. I use it with friends and I think that oddly it is an easy enough concept to be understood with little or no explanation by non-gamers.

So unlike HP (which being a big gaming nerd I do use in non-gaming situations as well ) TL is a term which can be used by both the Player and the Character. I would think that the both the military and scouts would use it as a common frame of reference.

 

[far-trader]

While I much prefer the more generic and wiggle-roomy verbose descriptives like 'Iron Age', 'Early Stellar', and so on, the TL notation as well as the rest of the UWP (and even UPP) do have a place in real use within my TU. And characters can and will bandy about the terms in game, in character, in conversations with other characters (player and non) with no one thinking they're strange. Well, at least not any other Travellers.

The UWP is used (in MTU) exclusively by the Travellers' Aid Society in their publications. It is a shorthand legend for Traveller's much like modern day travel clubs and maps have shorthand legends to help travellers. Like the "fork" rating for restaurants and so on. Of course a lot of Traveller's use the shorthand in common usage even without belonging to the TAS. And some other outfits will copy the TAS format because it is so widely used and understood. Even across languages.

The IISS and such do not (in MTU) report survey's in a UWP format. They don't even do the abbreviating of their detailed surveys to the UWP format. That is exclusively a TAS function. And yes there may be differences between the UWP and the actual conditions. Both due to errors and because of the necessarily generic and vague reduction of data to a simple UWP string. And of course the military doesn't make it's plans based on the UWP string. All again to be clear, in MTU.

As a side note, from above, in MTU the UPP is used by the military as a general fitness code for all it's members. And many civilian outfits have adopted it as well. It can be found on all Imperial Citizen* ID cards. Again it's used for it's shorthand value, and does not preclude more detailed notes and examinations.

* in MTU not all "members" of the Imperium are "Citizens" of the Imperium, every member is treated more or less equally, but full Citizenship must be earned (typically through service to the Imperium) and comes with some privileges and responsibilities, but that's a whole nother topic

 

[aramis]

Far Trader Dan's post matches my use right down to the Citizen/Subject issue...

 

[rancke]

Way back when, I tried to write one of my one-page player fact sheets to explain tech levels in in-universe terms. I never finished it, partly because I couldn't boil it down to a single page and partly because I couldn't make the concept work for me. But I did make a start at it:

"The most basic rating system is an informal division into very broad categories: Pre-industrial, Industrial, Pre-Stellar, Early Stellar, Average Stellar, and High Stellar. Then there are the G.U.R.P.S. tech levels (Generalized Universal Rating Profile System), which are quite detailed up to Early Stellar levels but very broad after that. The Scouts use Traveller tech levels(Named after noted Sylean explorer and anthropologist Thornton T. Traveller III), which are broad at low levels and detailed at high levels. A fairly new system called GT tech levels (Named after GalTech, a very prestigious university on Capital) are similar to G.U.R.P.S. up until level 9, but splits the next level into three. Recently many experts have begun to criticize the GT system as flawed. It certainly is subject to misunderstanding, since its levels often are abbreviated ‘GTL’ just as G.U.R.P.S. tech levels are."​

I then began making a list of tech levels and their characteristic technologies, but I didn't finish it. You know, GTL 0 and GTTL 0 corresponded to these technologies, GTL/GTTL 1 to those, GTL/GTTL 2 to a third bunch, and TTL 1 corresponed to all three lists, etc. GTL/GTTL 4 corresponded to TTL 2, but GTL/GTTL 5 was split into TTL 3 and 4 and GTL/GTTL 6 corresponded to TTL 5 and 6, and so on.


Hans

 

[Frankymole]

Of course "Grand Census" and "World Builder's Handbook" for CT/MT had the UPP/UWP TL being "high common" and thus the hghest commonly-found technology, but further detail in that individual areas of technology/research might have higher or lower individual TLs - "modern day" (then 1980s/90s) Earth being a case in point with certain techs (computers/robotics, vacc suits) being above the TLcommonly available to the citizenry in society at large but some others (gravitics?) being lower. This helps explain why Travellers' robots and computers often seemed to be at higher TLS than their equivalents here on TL8 Terra...

 

[Starviking]

Well, it seems 'Technological Level' is used in the real world, see:

http://www.stat.gouv.qc.ca/savoir/indicateurs/commerce/index_an.htm

I quote: "The international trade statistics in this section are based on the OECD's Classification of Manufacturing Industries by technological level."

 

[far-trader]

Very interesting Starviking.

I note (at least) a small bias (imo) though, in that they place Pharmaceuticals in the pinnacle "high tech" section. Ignoring the low tech roots of many drugs. Overall it looks more like a financial/industry driven definition of Tech Level. One based on dollar value rather than sophistication. Not unusual given the source and primary users of the data.

 

[mike wightman]

Since the IISS provides a hexdecimal rating of a planet's TL as part of the planetary data summary that is included in standard subsectot library data I believe the term tech level to be an actual term used in the 'real world' of the Imperium.

 

[Major B]

Aramis, thanks for shifting this over.