pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Don, you remember Mags got the "special" edition?
T5 Errata Discussion Thread
- Thread starter DonM
- Start date
Don, you remember Mags got the "special" edition?
Dangnabbit!
That is supposed to be page 67 where there is a table for Soc and a table for Nobility.
Couldn't you be getting knighthoods in different orders? There are several canonical orders, some are more prestigious or exclusive than others. You might end up a Knight of several Orders with Soc equivalent to a noble of higher title.
Alternatively most historical orders have different ranks within them. Stay in your original order and become a Knight Commander or eventually Master of the order.
This is one of those career areas that needs referee input.
As with so many other things that people say require referee imput, what it actually requires is creator input. Which means referee input for individual Traveller universes, but writer input for the OTU. So for those who don't care about the OTU, you're absolutely right. But for those who do, input from Marc Miller or one of his accredited minions is required.
Hans
Shipping Containers and Cargo Modules
Looking at the 1 ton Shipping Container on p347 of ACS which costs 100,000Cr and comparing it to the Cargo Module option on p300 of VehicleMaker and costs 20,000Cr.
Whats the difference?
Cargo Modules are defined as "a standardized container for goods." on p285 I take this to be the Traveller equivalent of an ISO Shipping Container.
But ACS has a standard shipping container thats five times more expensive. I suppose they could be hardened and sealed for transfer in space? Still it looks wrong, especially if you consider the effect on trade. What if the container your goods are shipped in is more expensive than those goods?
So two bits of errata to discuss:
Looking at the 1 ton Shipping Container on p347 of ACS which costs 100,000Cr and comparing it to the Cargo Module option on p300 of VehicleMaker and costs 20,000Cr.
Whats the difference?
Cargo Modules are defined as "a standardized container for goods." on p285 I take this to be the Traveller equivalent of an ISO Shipping Container.
But ACS has a standard shipping container thats five times more expensive. I suppose they could be hardened and sealed for transfer in space? Still it looks wrong, especially if you consider the effect on trade. What if the container your goods are shipped in is more expensive than those goods?
So two bits of errata to discuss:
- Should the VehicleMaker Cargo Module cost be used instead of the ACS cost.
- Are the Specialized Payload Tonnage items on p347 in general too expensive?
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Ok, brawling is not a skill. But isn't martial arts a skill? That is what I envision the fighting knowledge "unarmed" to be-martial arts.
My example in this thread was based on the rules that supp 4 has gone thru. It is very clear that
fighting-unarmed VS brawling
needs clarity. It would be useful at this stage if Don or Rob could weigh in here.
***Cross posted in the TRAVELLER 5 - My Thoughts And Comments REDUX thread.
My example in this thread was based on the rules that supp 4 has gone thru. It is very clear that
fighting-unarmed VS brawling
needs clarity. It would be useful at this stage if Don or Rob could weigh in here.
***Cross posted in the TRAVELLER 5 - My Thoughts And Comments REDUX thread.
[Referee] Fighting Words.
I think that Brawling and Fighter (Unarmed) are essentially the same thing. Unarmed merely means you are not wielding any weapons, just using your body parts, be that Martain Kung Fu, Commando sentry snuffing tricks or just straight up wading in and just trying to get some hits in and hoping you don't get knocked out. Style at this level of mechanic is color, results are the same.
I think that Brawling and Fighter (Unarmed) are essentially the same thing. Unarmed merely means you are not wielding any weapons, just using your body parts, be that Martain Kung Fu, Commando sentry snuffing tricks or just straight up wading in and just trying to get some hits in and hoping you don't get knocked out. Style at this level of mechanic is color, results are the same.
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pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Style is everything...
The issue is that Brawling isn't listed as a skill, nor as a knowledge. Unarmed is.
However, brawling is used in examples of opposed checks.
Well then...
that then sounds like a Correction Errata.Style is everything...
The issue is that Brawling isn't listed as a skill, nor as a knowledge. Unarmed is.
However, brawling is used in examples of opposed checks.
I have a half-formed thought that, if you want more details in your martial arts combat, you could have Unarmed as the skill and different fighting styles as knowledges. For example:
Unarmed-X (Aikido-Y, Boxing-Z, Sylean Wrestling-M, Space Judo-N).
And with opposed task roles in hand-to-hand combat, different forms could favor attack or defense, i.e., some forms would gives bonuses on attack but not defense, and vice versa.
Bah.
Assume everyone has a default of Fighter-0 (Unarmed-0) to start like the other default Skills. From there you get your "Style" Knowledges.
if you are going to add the color of styles or schools or what have you, then just make Unarmed the basic, flatbush, keep pressing X style and things like Akido or Jujitsu or whatever as Knowledges.
Assume everyone has a default of Fighter-0 (Unarmed-0) to start like the other default Skills. From there you get your "Style" Knowledges.
I'm not sure if this is errata or not. On Page 65 at the bottom of the Personal Day chart is the following notation:
"* Failure = Character falls asleep for 1D hours in first instance; 1D minutes in second instance"
It seems strange to me that the first time you nod off you are out for hours and subsequent times is for minutes. The times I have had to work extremely long hours I was much more likely to lose a few minutes here and there than to conk out for hours. Should these be reversed?
"* Failure = Character falls asleep for 1D hours in first instance; 1D minutes in second instance"
It seems strange to me that the first time you nod off you are out for hours and subsequent times is for minutes. The times I have had to work extremely long hours I was much more likely to lose a few minutes here and there than to conk out for hours. Should these be reversed?
You'll find the same under Scholars, Spacers, Soldiers, and Marines: it's the same as the Knowledge you get automatically for a Term in those Careers, so it caps at Knowledge-6. If you roll that when you have six Terms already (or plan on them), it's the same as rolling Major or Minor when you don't have one: it's a lost opportunity for a Skill or a Knowledge.
Disappointment about the numerous Errata...
I was ready to accept a certain level of errata but I would have guessed, even in a very large book like this one, the grammatical correction and system mechanic errata would have been corrected after so many years of development process?
Why some money wasn't invested in an independent grammatical review and error proofing?
Why after so much alpha, beta testing and mechanic proofing there is still so many anomalies?
Why and why taking action AFTER the publication….???
Maybe the answers are somewhere among this thread or another… but please can someone provide a summary of enlighten explanations; it will be very much appreciated!!!!
Thanks
Éli,
I was ready to accept a certain level of errata but I would have guessed, even in a very large book like this one, the grammatical correction and system mechanic errata would have been corrected after so many years of development process?
Why some money wasn't invested in an independent grammatical review and error proofing?
Why after so much alpha, beta testing and mechanic proofing there is still so many anomalies?
Why and why taking action AFTER the publication….???
Maybe the answers are somewhere among this thread or another… but please can someone provide a summary of enlighten explanations; it will be very much appreciated!!!!
Thanks
Éli,
Not sure if anyone has covered this but in the errata someone pointed out that there is no difference between some of the damage types, those that have to defeat armour and that some weapon are completely ineffective versus some of the most basic of armours.
The solution would be to have armour degradation, based on the damage dealt but the weapon. For example you are hit by a bullet-2 weapon while wearing AV=10 armour the round fails to penetrate then lower the armour by 2.
If the damage rating is lower than 10% of the AV then the weapon cannot harm the armour. This makes Battledress and Combat Armours different and more valuable than the basic, Cloth/Jack/Ablat armours.
The Different damage types can then be made to come into play.
Pen halves all AV before being rolled for.
Frag never degrades armour
Corrodes always degrades armour
Blast has an area of effect, equal in meters to the original rating and then dropping by 1 for each meter beyond this.
To make shotguns a bit different from rifles and more like real world ones, allow the damage to be divided amongst targets equal to the range band fired. Eg:- if you fire a shotgun with Bullet-3 at Range 2 then you can divide the damage between 2 targets but they have to be standing near each other. As an option make the shotgun damage a series of Bullet-1 hits instead, so your Bullet-3 shotgun actually becomes 3 Bullet-1 hits if you successfully attack your target. This only really makes any difference if you are using hit locations like i do though.
The solution would be to have armour degradation, based on the damage dealt but the weapon. For example you are hit by a bullet-2 weapon while wearing AV=10 armour the round fails to penetrate then lower the armour by 2.
If the damage rating is lower than 10% of the AV then the weapon cannot harm the armour. This makes Battledress and Combat Armours different and more valuable than the basic, Cloth/Jack/Ablat armours.
The Different damage types can then be made to come into play.
Pen halves all AV before being rolled for.
Frag never degrades armour
Corrodes always degrades armour
Blast has an area of effect, equal in meters to the original rating and then dropping by 1 for each meter beyond this.
To make shotguns a bit different from rifles and more like real world ones, allow the damage to be divided amongst targets equal to the range band fired. Eg:- if you fire a shotgun with Bullet-3 at Range 2 then you can divide the damage between 2 targets but they have to be standing near each other. As an option make the shotgun damage a series of Bullet-1 hits instead, so your Bullet-3 shotgun actually becomes 3 Bullet-1 hits if you successfully attack your target. This only really makes any difference if you are using hit locations like i do though.
Could use some clarification and observation on the following:
Trade Schools and Training
page 71 says: Trade Schools provide vocational education in specific
(generally non-academic) skills.
page 72 says: The Training Process
Training takes three forms: Apprenticeship, Mentoring,
and Training Courses.
Page 78 shows:
Basic Education
. ED5 (no time required; Check Int)
. Apprenticeship (before age 18; Check Tra)
Trade Schools
. Trade School (Major, Honors)
. Training Course (Major; Honors)
. Mentor (+2 to Tra)
Page 100 Shows: (w/ errata 0.6 fix)
___________Med School_____Law School___Trade School
Pre-requisite Honors BA . . . . Honors BA . . . C5 = 5
To Apply . . . Int or Edu . . . . Int or Edu . . . C2 or C3
Pass/Fail . . . 4x Int or Edu . . 2x Int or Edu . 1x Int or Tra
Duration . . . 4 years . . . . . . 2 years . . . . . 1 year
Graduation . . Edu = 10 . . . . .Edu = 10 . . . . --
and . . . . . . Medical Doctor . Lawyer
TRAINING_____Apprentice_____Course______Mentor
Pre-requisite . -- . . . . . . . . . C5 = Tra . . . C5 = Tra
To Apply . . . . auto . . . . . . . auto . . . . . . Int
Pass/Fail . . . . 1x Tra . . . . . . 1x Tra . . . . . 1x Int or Tra
Duration . . . . 4 years** . . . . 1 year . . . . .1 year
Graduation . . . -- . . . . . . . . . -- . . . . . . . Tra +2
. . . . . . . . . . **during Life Stage 2 . . . . . (no Major)
Wait... what? Should Trade School be 4x Int or Tra along with a chance of Honors, with a duration of 4 years?
Should Training Course be 4x Tra along with a chance of Honors, with a duration of 4 years?
Page 78 implies 4 years = 4 points in a Major for both, with a possible 5th roll for Honors, but no Minor such as with College / University / Academy
How much like T4 are Trade Schools?
Also, is Trade School the Int equivalent to an Apprenticeship? Could it be a part of Secondary Education (Vocational-technical school) like Apprenticeships are? I note that Apprenticeship, Training and Trade School share the same skill table, and I think this a fair companion to Apprenticeships
For that matter can someone with Tra Apprentice during ongoing character generation like Edu characters can go back to Universities / Trade Schools?
Also in passing I note the statement on pg 72 that mentoring takes 2 years but the table on pg 100 shows 1 year.
Trade Schools and Training
page 71 says: Trade Schools provide vocational education in specific
(generally non-academic) skills.
page 72 says: The Training Process
Training takes three forms: Apprenticeship, Mentoring,
and Training Courses.
Page 78 shows:
Basic Education
. ED5 (no time required; Check Int)
. Apprenticeship (before age 18; Check Tra)
Trade Schools
. Trade School (Major, Honors)
. Training Course (Major; Honors)
. Mentor (+2 to Tra)
Page 100 Shows: (w/ errata 0.6 fix)
___________Med School_____Law School___Trade School
Pre-requisite Honors BA . . . . Honors BA . . . C5 = 5
To Apply . . . Int or Edu . . . . Int or Edu . . . C2 or C3
Pass/Fail . . . 4x Int or Edu . . 2x Int or Edu . 1x Int or Tra
Duration . . . 4 years . . . . . . 2 years . . . . . 1 year
Graduation . . Edu = 10 . . . . .Edu = 10 . . . . --
and . . . . . . Medical Doctor . Lawyer
TRAINING_____Apprentice_____Course______Mentor
Pre-requisite . -- . . . . . . . . . C5 = Tra . . . C5 = Tra
To Apply . . . . auto . . . . . . . auto . . . . . . Int
Pass/Fail . . . . 1x Tra . . . . . . 1x Tra . . . . . 1x Int or Tra
Duration . . . . 4 years** . . . . 1 year . . . . .1 year
Graduation . . . -- . . . . . . . . . -- . . . . . . . Tra +2
. . . . . . . . . . **during Life Stage 2 . . . . . (no Major)
Wait... what? Should Trade School be 4x Int or Tra along with a chance of Honors, with a duration of 4 years?
Should Training Course be 4x Tra along with a chance of Honors, with a duration of 4 years?
Page 78 implies 4 years = 4 points in a Major for both, with a possible 5th roll for Honors, but no Minor such as with College / University / Academy
How much like T4 are Trade Schools?
Also, is Trade School the Int equivalent to an Apprenticeship? Could it be a part of Secondary Education (Vocational-technical school) like Apprenticeships are? I note that Apprenticeship, Training and Trade School share the same skill table, and I think this a fair companion to Apprenticeships
For that matter can someone with Tra Apprentice during ongoing character generation like Edu characters can go back to Universities / Trade Schools?
Also in passing I note the statement on pg 72 that mentoring takes 2 years but the table on pg 100 shows 1 year.
