T5 CT MGT? Which? Why?

[Shonner]

Standard and custom LBB1-3 CT skill checks don't require any attribute, skill, situational, difficulty, timing, or chained DMs. Nor are there 100+ 'standardized' skill checks to reference - which can easily saturate or be completely implausible for a given situation, and worse, open munchkin rule lawyer avenues.

Classic Traveller tells you to apply DMs if you have certain attribute values. But the DMs are no consistant. Referees have to decide if and where a DM is needed for a long of skills and situations. It's do-able. I prefer to drive an automatic instead of a shift though.

LBB1-3 does have about 2 dozen unique skills, with some, but by far not all, having explicit rules with set targets and DMs (largely caveat-ed to avoid rules lawyering) - of which only a few apply per character and are easily listed right on an index card sized character sheet and all can be listed on 1/2 sheet.

Index cards leave no room for character backstory.

To use CT skill checks properly the Ref does need to understand 2d6 and the probabilities... <shrug>

There's not much to know about 2D6 results. It's the target number and effect number that the ref spends time doing. Mongoose Traveller takes care of all that and makes roll 8+ the standard.

For those that like bell curves in their rolls (5D6s), and need to look at probability charts, Traveller 5 is full of them.

 

[CosmicGamer]

To use CT skill checks properly the Ref does need to understand 2d6 and the probabilities... <shrug>

I haven't played CT in a long time but thought they were pretty much the same in this respect because in both CT and MGT the GM needs to determine task difficulty which changes the probability. In MGT difficulty alters a DM and in CT it changes the target #. So instead of trying to roll a 8 after a -2 DM to the dice you try to roll a 10. Sounds pretty much the same to me.

However if my understanding isn't too far off, with CT you'd also need a lot more than this. You have to decide if there are skill levels at which positive DMs apply, and what the DM is. Are there skill levels that apply a negative DM, Are there skill levels where a check is not needed because it would be automatic or impossible... and so on. Then you better document this because 3 months later when a similar situation occurs you'll want to be consistent. I'm sure the player won't fail to remind you "Last time..."

 

[Shonner]

Then you better document this because 3 months later when a similar situation occurs you'll want to be consistent. I'm sure the player won't fail to remind you "Last time..."

And also, "Why you giving him a DM of +3 when you only gave me a DM +1 for the same attribute level and skill check?"

When players have their standard attribute DMs written on their character sheets, they don't have to look at their attribute levels all that much, which is just their UPP anyway. And I don't have to be thinking about given out DMs all the time. The players add their DMs themselves when they roll. I just decide how difficult the task is (which is also standardized, so the players know what to add/subtract for that also).

 

[aramis]

Index cards leave no room for character backstory.

Funny, but index cards have two sides, and a CT, MT, or MGT character can usually fit on a single card complete with term history on the front, and a paragraph or two on the back.

Further, "Index card" is not a size reference, per se. It can refer to cardstock of any of 3 standard sizes in the US: 3"x5", 4"x6", or 5"x8"

4x6 cards are adequate for TNE characters and T4 characters.

Moreover, single-sided ruled cards, if you have time to print to them, can have a character form on the blank side, and background can be written out on ruled side.

 

[nats]

And also, "Why you giving him a DM of +3 when you only gave me a DM +1 for the same attribute level and skill check?"

This is exactly the same for MgT. In MgT you have to assign a difficulty to a task and it is in choosing that difficulty that is extremely tricky. I mean how diffiuclt is picking an electronic lock? What about running up a slippery slope whilst it is raining? What about shooting a bird from a distance of 500 yards with a faulty rifle scope? Who could say they could assign reasonable diffiuclties from Mongoose rules to all of these in a couple fo seconds. But I could do it using CT rules very quickly using 'common sense'.

For example in CT you might assign a 11+ roll to land a ship on a small mountain landing pad in a blinding storm with one lower thruster out knowing that it is roughly a decent difficult roll to make. You might give the character a +1 for their dexterity plus a +1 if they arent rushed plus a DM for their piloting skill say. All of that doesnt need explicitly stating in a rule anywhere - its just common sense.

In MgT you have to roll a default 8+ but then you need to add a difficulty and timing DM plus a skill DM plus a characteristic DM and also consider any chain skills that might affect it etc etc - and if you dont have a good memory you will need to check the tables for all these.

So which is easier? The explicit rules of MgT or the fudgery of CT? I prefer CT everytime. Its more fun and a good Ref will make sensible rules on the spot without requiring everything written down. Its just common sense fun stuff. Once you realise that the fun of CT is its freedom from set rules you have have a heck of a lot of fun as a DM.

 

[Shonner]

This is exactly the same for MgT. In MgT you have to assign a difficulty to a task and it is in choosing that difficulty that is extremely tricky.

In my example, the same difficulty was assumed for both instances.

Aramis,
I use a letter size character sheet with all the character mishaps and events from character generation printed on the back side for the character's backstory. When/how they got allies, rivals, etc. It's like a journal of their life up until the adventure starts. I plan to do another Traveller YouTube video showing the custom character sheet PDF that I generate for players and NPCs.

 

[Dragoner]

IME, if you focus on the rolls and not roles, players will lose interest.

 

[Shonner]

Dragoner, do you know of another RPG where players have a mini-game in it at the beginning (character generation) and they start their adventure already "leveled up" as older characters?

 

[Dragoner]

MgT's chargen is the best of the breed though, in trav; other games, such as Eclipse Phase, it is too involved of a process. There is always a balance to be achieved, my focus is what is in my sig though, any less and I'm shorting my players.

 

[Shonner]

I haven't seen that before, players using the comments section to play? I'm stressing about how to GM an openworld game using Hangout+. But I did figure out about PMing to players so the whole group doesn't know things. And posting URLs to players so they can download any artifacts I've made for an adventure.

 

[Dragoner]

I am always looking to hear how other GM's are doing their games, I haven't looked over google+ too much, but it sounds cool.

I started in Mustered out on Regina as a player, then went from there on my own game, Nick does the log posts/comment as well as gametable from source forge, it is a nice setup but you have to have everyone in one place at one time, sunday's are just too busy for me.

I use the forums as well as the log post/comment setup, I find them both useable, the logs help me keep the direction flowing though with everything on the front page or sidebar.

 

[Greylond]

Dragoner, do you know of another RPG where players have a mini-game in it at the beginning (character generation) and they start their adventure already "leveled up" as older characters?

Don't know about Dragoner, but Twilight 2000 ver2.0(and 2.2) by GDW(and it's variants, i.e. Merc 2000). Aces&Eights: The Shattered Frontier (wild west RPG with an alternate history) by Kenzer&Co doesn't have the CharaGen mini-game(but a mix of Random Rolls and Point Buy) but characters are effectively Professionals, if not Masters, in some of their skills at start.

I think there were some others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

But CT was, IIRC, the first to do it.

 

[Shonner]

Since you mentioned Twilight 2000, I'm thinking about The Morrow Project. No mini-game. But characters are trained already. I'm talking about 3rd edition revised that used the BRP rules. I prefer RPGs that start adventures off with the character's lives behind them (it's what made them who they are at this point).

 

[Cryton]

Dragoner, do you know of another RPG where players have a mini-game in it at the beginning (character generation) and they start their adventure already "leveled up" as older characters?

As far as the "starts leveled up" goes: Any non level based game.

 

[Greylond]

Never played that version of Morrow Project, only the first edition(only edition that I ever knew about). Yea, there's a several games out there that start off with characters as "Seasoned Professionals", but not many with a CharGen Mini-game. Since I GM most of the time, I like CharGen because I can do that in between games and it gives me notable NPCs to use later.

 

[Shonner]

As far as the "starts leveled up" goes: Any non level based game.

Well yes, that's obvious. How many have mini-games though?

 

[Cryton]

Well yes, that's obvious. How many have mini-games though?

All the WOD games, as "preludes" are supposed to be mini one on one sessions with the GM. In fact any Narrativist game with preludes.

 

[Shonner]

Never played that version of Morrow Project, only the first edition(only edition that I ever knew about). Yea, there's a several games out there that start off with characters as "Seasoned Professionals", but not many with a CharGen Mini-game. Since I GM most of the time, I like CharGen because I can do that in between games and it gives me notable NPCs to use later.

I bought the game a couple times over the years not realizing there were various printings editions of 2nd and 3rd. I don't remember it I started with 1st or 2nd. BRP makes running the game a lot easier. I think 4th edition will use its own D100 rules though.

I'm almost finished with my chargen program for making Traveller NPCs on the fly. Just fine-tuning the character sheet it spits out.

 

[Shonner]

All the WOD games, as "preludes" are supposed to be mini one on one sessions with the GM. In fact any Narrativist game with preludes.

Yes. Some RPG bridage members have been running live sessions of WoD Wraith on Hangout+ and streaming to YouTube. Great stuff. Lots of great role-playing with that RPG system.

 

[aramis]

Dragoner, do you know of another RPG where players have a mini-game in it at the beginning (character generation) and they start their adventure already "leveled up" as older characters?

Every GDW game except Space1889 and Dangerous Journeys.
FGU's Space Opera.
There's an optional rule in SpaceMaster for doing travelleresque prior history.
FASA Trek - destination contracted, minigame develops you to that point.

Burning Wheel and Burning Empires - pick a path mode, no rolls
LUG Trek - pick-a-path mode, no rolls.
Space 1889 - pick a path - 0, 1 or 2 career blocks


There are "bolt-on" supplements for doing so, as well: Paul Jacquays wrote three: Heroes Now, Heros of Legend, and Heroes For Tomorrow.

Cyberpunk 2013 had a lifepath generator, as do most RTG games - it didn't affect the quasi-point-balanced CGen much, but did produce a backstory via a minigame.