T5 CT MGT? Which? Why?

[nats]

Why would I buy T5 over CT and MGT?

I am a bit of a quandry. I want to start playing Traveller regularly with my kids.

I love CT but mainly for nostalgia reasons I think. The starship combat is rather difficult to do in a group plus the combat is a bit lethal as we all know and the chargen is a bit basic plus the task resolution is rather non existant.

The Mongoose systtem plays well if you can be bothered to read, decipher and remember loads of rules but the basic production level always puts me off it and the need to constantly move between sections to decipher gameplay is a pain. But the task sytem is good and the chargen system is great.

And then there is T5 which I know nothing about at all.

I have been thinking of getting a Starter Traveller set from Ebay as I feel its the best version of CT, but I also have lots of Mongoose books that I dont know whether to keep or get rid of, and then I dont know whether to move onto T5 later.

So what would you do/are you doing? Who here is moving onto T5? Why is this new version going to be good? Which version do you like for the actual gameplay a opposed to design processes?

 

[Dragoner]

Personally, I am a long time fan of CT, running a mong game and slowly incorporating elements from T5. Mong does chargen and small ship combat the best, CT does personal combat the best plus Don has slipped the old CT reactions chart back into mong with his Zhodani book. T5 has many cool elements, it's personals - which is sort of like social combat is great, and list of gear plus list of cargoes for ships are great as well; it also has a ton of makers, from guns to aliens that fit right into mong (AV needs to be reduced on armor though).

 

[CosmicGamer]

For any system, players don't really need to read and remember the rules. They should be encouraged to just role play and I think that for someone new and especially kids, MGT chargen would be a strong factor that gets it chosen over CT. The simple task system in MGT might be a factor for the GM. I'm not familiar with T5. No matter what system, get or make a GM screen or some cheat sheets for the most common stuff.

T5 had too many undelivered promises of it being released. If I had decided to wait on it instead of buying Mongoose I'd have had over 4 years of waiting. Personally I'm Jaded and don't believe anything said about it anymore. I'll wait till an actual release and people start talking about the final product instead of some beta or play test version. Another issue might be it's huge and expensive. I find it interesting that this website still lists the forum as "Discussion of the fabled Fifth edition of Traveller"

CT has a CD with a lot on it and it's available for a low price. Good bang for your buck.

 

[nats]

T5 had too many undelivered promises of it being released. If I had decided to wait on it instead of buying Mongoose I'd have had over 4 years of waiting. Personally I'm Jaded and don't believe anything said about it anymore. I'll wait till an actual release and people start talking about the final product instead of some beta or play test version.

T5 print run has been checked by Marc earlier this month and books are due to be printed by end of January.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/traveller5/traveller-5th-edition/posts

 

[atpollard]

Having played both Classic and Mongoose Traveller a fair bit, both have a similar 'feel' to the game and would serve you well.

Personally, I prefer Classic Traveller, but I also prefer LBB 1-3 over a lot of what came later, and most people don't want a game as simple as I like ... I just want the rules to form a loose framework without getting in the way of playing.

What really impressed me about Mongoose Traveller was all the options it presents for using skills in actual game play. The example that sticks in my mind was when a group all split up to use Steward, Administration, Streetwise, Computer and Carousing skills to locate cargo. Eack skill pointed to a different path to both a cargo and the seed for an adventure in actually getting that cargo.

As a ref, if you are comfortable with the Mongoose Rules and like the level of detail, then you should use them. If you prefer something simpler, the go back to The Traveller Book and Classic Traveller.

Just manage the rules as a ref and let the players focus on what they would do in that situation. Either system leads to fun.

[I am not slighting T5, I just have no experience with it ... I am waiting for the book to come out as a final (not Draft) version on PDF.]

 

[Shonner]

Traveller 5 is 650+ pages. Mongoose Traveller is a breathe of fresh air for me with its nice background generator during chargen, which no other version of Traveller has.

 

[atpollard]

Traveller 5 is 650+ pages.

That always sounded huge to me, until I compared it to the 400 pages for 760 Patrons (Mongoose Traveller). Now it just sounds large.

 

[DangerousThing]

Traveller 5 is 650+ pages. Mongoose Traveller is a breathe of fresh air for me with its nice background generator during chargen, which no other version of Traveller has.

I will be using the background events from MgT with T5.

I also fave a bunch of supplements from various Traveller sets that I'll be using.

I haven't found any problem mixing and matching, but I do like T5's task resolution the best.

 

[Shonner]

I do like T5's task resolution the best.

You like the roll-under with nD6 (where n goes up as difficulty goes up) mechanic? I prefer Mongoose's standard roll 8+ with 2D6 to succeed for everything. Less fiddling with DM calculations and dice adding, and focusing more on role-play.

 

[CosmicGamer]

T5 print run has been checked by Marc earlier this month and books are due to be printed by end of January.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/traveller5/traveller-5th-edition/posts

That's a long ways from the June of 2007 release.

I'll go for the over if your taking bets. :devil:

 

[Cryton]

Nats.

I currently use the MgT rules for my games. In addition, I regularly use things from CT as well, as I have found that the two versions are shockingly easy to port from one to the other.

As for T5, I have been a member of the T5 forum for quite a while as I pre-ordered T5 long before the kickstarter ever opened.

I will say this: T5 does does a few things very differently from most other Traveller editions, Some of which I do not care for at all. However, there is quite a bit of the rules set that I do plan on using, as they will enhance the rule set I already play with.

I am not sure if this will help answer your questions as to which rules set to go with. But I do suggest taking a look at the T5 rules before making your decision. I think they are worth having as a resource regardless of which rules set you actually play with.

Rich

 

[SpaceBadger]

I missed the Kickstarter, but will probably buy T5 when it is available, just to check out the crunchy stuff about how the universe works, how to design ships, worlds, weapons, etc. For actual play I will probably stick with Fudge, which is what we are using now and enjoying very much (w crunch mostly from GT). It is nice to be able to play a full session without ever consulting a rulebook.

 

[Shonner]

Huh? Really? Fudge, GURPS, and Traveller 5 together? What a train wreck.

 

[aramis]

Huh? Really? Fudge, GURPS, and Traveller 5 together? What a train wreck.

Fudge Dice as an alternate task resolution system for MT is quite doable...

Since the normal asset limit is +8, and the normal dice are ±5...

(Stat/5)+Skill+4dF (+4 if taking extra time, -4 if cautious) for
Simple: -4 or more
Routine: 0
Difficult: 4 or more
Formidable: 8 or more
Impossible: 12 or more

(for those who don't know, 1dF is essentially 1d3-2.)

 

[Cryton]

Fudge Dice as an alternate task resolution system for MT is quite doable...

Since the normal asset limit is +8, and the normal dice are ±5...

(Stat/5)+Skill+4dF (+4 if taking extra time, -4 if cautious) for
Simple: -4 or more
Routine: 0
Difficult: 4 or more
Formidable: 8 or more
Impossible: 12 or more

I just cant look away.....Its like a train wreck (joke) :rofl:

 

[SpaceBadger]

Huh? Really? Fudge, GURPS, and Traveller 5 together? What a train wreck.

That actually is not what I said, as I pointed out that I don't have T5 yet. As to whether I would mix any crunch from GT w T5 remains to be seen after I actually have T5 to look at.

As for using Fudge for gameplay of any version of Traveller, don't knock it till you've tried it. Have you tried it?

The first couple sessions we played were almost totally made up as we went along, with a few notes on index cards to help me keep straight what I said as we went. The boys wanted something "kinda like Firefly" but we decided that there is no grav tech, so getting things to/from orbit actually means something.

We decided that they had a ship, a small freighter that was streamlined and capable of planetary landing, but also carried a shuttle to save costs when landing the whole ship wasn't needed. We decided that it was lightly armed, as would be standard for merchants in areas where the law wasn't always available for protection. That was it for details - no exact tonnage or capabilities decided because not needed at that point.

I generated three worlds in my head, not UWPs but just ideas of what they were like and how they were governed, made up a few NPCs as contacts for an adventure.

Character generation was pretty simple, deciding what they wanted their characters to be good at, and what other skills they should have, and assigning Fudge values.

While playing, any time a die roll situation came up I made an assessment of the situation, applied some situational DMs as needed, and decided a difficulty to roll against. They rolled 3d6 and we figured the Fudge factor to apply to their applicable skill/attribute, and compared that to the difficulty to see if they succeeded or failed, and if so by how much. Very easy, and no rules references required while playing - which was good, as my younger son tends to get bored and impatient if much time is spent pausing the game to consult rules.

They started off running a load of weapons to a colony world where some valuable minerals had been found and Sternmetal decided to muscle in on the locals and mine the good stuff without paying the locals anything, then had a few more adventures related to that starter..

For expanding the campaign I intend to work with them to design an actual ship so that they know what their limits are, and also generate some stats for their weapons and other equipment so we are not just winging it as we go, but this has already been a fun few sessions so far.

Fudge Traveller: not for everyone, but it works great for us!

 

[nats]

I suppose no-one is going to know for sure until the T5 book comes out.

One thing is for sure though I never overlap/mix systems - I will either play CT or MgT or T5. I do like the idea of the new Traveller, plus the new adventures etc that T5 promises. And as long as the production quality is as good as CT (no stupid errors or terrible amateur illustrations - we all know to which system I am referring here) I will probably move to T5 for my games and keep CT for nostalgia only.

Either way though I think I have pretty well decided to ditch MgT permanently - Ive never played it in a game, never liked it from a quality point of view, never really had the time to digest it properly and found it all so confusing and contradictory.

My only real concern with T5 now is that at 600+ pages will I even be bothered to read the thing, never mind understand and remember half of it? CT was so simple that was (and still is) its great strength.

I do like the fudge idea that could be great of smooth gameplaying sessions. But I always wonder when I read about this kind of thing how on earth can the Ref come up with all the design on the fly like that? Must have a heck of a good imagination. I always felt that CT was so simple that sometimes it is difficult for a Ref with little imagination to really see the situation in his head and make up intersting stories/requirements for the players to do. Sometimes a few good rules and some good campaign background preparation can help a long way in games. I myself find it rather difficult making up really good stuff on the spot.

 

[Shonner]

Mongoose Traveller helps me make up stuff on the spot for my open world sessions, because of its standard use of DMs for skill checks. Classic Traveller has DMs all over the range scale. How much DM for an INT of 10? Was the target number for Admin skill a 7+ or 8+?

When DMs are consistant and target numbers are always 8+, the imagination is interrupted less.

 

[SpaceBadger]

I do like the fudge idea that could be great of smooth gameplaying sessions. But I always wonder when I read about this kind of thing how on earth can the Ref come up with all the design on the fly like that? Must have a heck of a good imagination. I always felt that CT was so simple that sometimes it is difficult for a Ref with little imagination to really see the situation in his head and make up intersting stories/requirements for the players to do. Sometimes a few good rules and some good campaign background preparation can help a long way in games. I myself find it rather difficult making up really good stuff on the spot.

I wouldn't want to always play with so little prep. Would actually prefer to have a more detailed design of ship and shuttle and equipment, so the players know the capabilities and limits of their stuff, rather than me making it up as we go. I also prefer a more detailed setting, so the players can sandbox it and come up with some of their own ideas for adventure rather than having it handed to them as "how does this sound for an adventure tonight?" Those things will be more developed as time allows, and as I said I am currently looking mostly at GT but will consider T5 when available. All of that prep is done outside of actual playtime, though, and given our experience so far I expect to stick w Fudge for deciding outcomes during the game.

 

[BytePro]

Mongoose Traveller helps me make up stuff on the spot for my open world sessions, because of its standard use of DMs for skill checks. Classic Traveller has DMs all over the range scale. How much DM for an INT of 10? Was the target number for Admin skill a 7+ or 8+?

When DMs are consistant and target numbers are always 8+, the imagination is interrupted less.

Standard and custom LBB1-3 CT skill checks don't require any attribute, skill, situational, difficulty, timing, or chained DMs. Nor are there 100+ 'standardized' skill checks to reference - which can easily saturate or be completely implausible for a given situation, and worse, open munchkin rule lawyer avenues.

LBB1-3 does have about 2 dozen unique skills, with some, but by far not all, having explicit rules with set targets and DMs (largely caveat-ed to avoid rules lawyering) - of which only a few apply per character and are easily listed right on an index card sized character sheet and all can be listed on 1/2 sheet.

To use CT skill checks properly the Ref does need to understand 2d6 and the probabilities... <shrug>