T20 Prestige Classes

[Neo]

Well Another Questions springs to mind, and one i have not seen any hint or reply about so far.

Will T20 have Prestige Classes,and if so, what are we likely to be looking at?

I suppose the obvious assumption would be that prestige classes would simply end up as the Archetypes of previous, editions.... which is IMO a double edged sword if thats the case.

But i do hope thier will be prestige classes in some form..

does anyone know more?

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Neo

"Et semel emissum volat ireevocabile verbum".

 

[hunter]

Currently working Prestige Classes:

Bounty Hunter
Entertainer
Doctor
Free Trader
Hunter
Noble/Diplomat
Pirate/Corsair
Private Investigator
Reporter
Smuggler

Now please note. These are not 'official' nor do I guarantee any listed prestige class will make the final cut. Obviously there is also a lot of room for expansion of this list and I encourage suggestions. But only a handful we be able to be in the core book. We can always do a supplement, etc later with more.

Hunter

 

[Neo]

Bounty Hunter
Entertainer
Doctor
Free Trader
Hunter
Noble/Diplomat
Pirate/Corsair
Private Investigator
Reporter
Smuggler

QUOTE
Now please note. These are not 'official' nor do I guarantee any listed prestige class will make the final cut. Obviously there is also a lot of room for expansion of this list and I encourage suggestions. But only a handful we be able to be in the core book. We can always do a supplement, etc later with more.

Hi Hunter

Thanks for the prompt response <g>.. the list of Prestige classes is promising.
Suggestions of some others offhand:-
Martial Artist
Psionic Investigator
Priest/Cultist
Law Enforcer
Spy/Special Operatives (bit more specialised than the broad Class Rogue)
Scientist (as below)
Marine (bit more specialised than the broad class combatant)


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Neo

"Et semel emissum volat ireevocabile verbum".

 

[Antares Administration]

Some other thoughts:

- Field Scout/First Contact Specialist ("we come in peace" - my personal favourite)

- Military Command Officer/Ship's Captain (as opposed to all the poor schmucks who get rank, but never get their own command)

- Politician? (an alternate to the Traveller "Noble", i.e. a non-noble ruler. Dictators would be more like nobles(but lower Social Standing). These would be from a system subject to removal from office by the electorate or peers.)

And a couple rarities:

- "Jacker" (someone who lives more in the virtual world than the real one)

- Psionic Magi (something like the adepts of the Julian May books - the elite and reclusive)

AA

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by Antares Administration:
Some other thoughts:

- Field Scout/First Contact Specialist ("we come in peace" - my personal favourite)

Hehe is that said before or after the natives have placed them in the big black pot og Honor? <bg>

Also How about

Techno Wizard? totally taken from B5 i know, but the idea of people using science and technology to produce the illusion and impression of Magic is very appealing.

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Neo

"Et semel emissum volat ireevocabile verbum".

 

[GypsyComet]

The concepts of prestige classes and prior service need to be mixed with extreme caution. I don't mind being able to start play in such a class, particularly as the list seems to contain all the ship owners, but that needs to be accounted for in their design.
Other than the ship owners and things like Orders of Knighthood, I think the prestige class list (and suggestions for adding to it) need to be limited somewhat. We don't even know what the basic classes do yet.

And for the record "Marine" should NOT be a prestige class, since any 18 yr old has a shot at it. Marine Officer (or in fact any military officer grade) is a different question, and would make a good prestige class step up from the generic Military/Mercenary class, particularly since the Imperium doesn't allow the purchase of commissions...

 

[DrSkull]

A prestige class for those who run their own Mercenary outfits might be a good idea (especially since that's what most of my campaigns seem to revolve around). I don't know what'd you call it, since Mercenary is already taken.

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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[GypsyComet]

"Mercenary Captain"

 

[Antares Administration]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GypsyComet:
"Mercenary Captain"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


... Referring to position, not rank, correct?

In that case, I agree. It parallels my suggestion for a Military Command Officer, the one-off guy with the independant command.

AA

 

[GypsyComet]

Yes. "Captain" in its older sense connoting a "Leader of men," often men he personally hired, equipped, and leads in the field. It's the definition that led (in a roundabout fashion) to the odd usage of the term in wet (and space) navies.

"Military officer" makes a good prestige class (or set of classes), with rank represented vaguely by level.

 

[Antares Administration]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GypsyComet:
"Military officer" makes a good prestige class (or set of classes), with rank represented vaguely by level.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure you can wear gold on your shoulder, but are you a leader of men!!!?

My feeling is that it should be more "exclusive" than that - Military COMMAND Officer.

A condition for admittance should be that you are selected at least once for Command Duty in the Navy (as in HG), or minimum O4 and at least one Command assignment, or Command College in the Marines or Army (as in Mercenary). That way, Navy Engineer, Medical and Tech Svcs and Army Support or Staff personnel rarely qualify.

AA

 

[Phil]

Careful about throwing around the term "Officer." I have a friend who is a retired sergeant major, and he is more "commanding" than anyone who ever wore gold on their shoulder boards. More than one E6+ has spent the majority of his time keeping the O1-3s from screwing up or killing their entire unit. I think military commander is a better term, but don't require an O rank. Top grade non-comms have all the contacts and many of the talents of good officers, just not the social standing. And the social issues are the only major difference, which is handled by things outside the prestige class.

 

[Cleon the Mad]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phil:
Careful about throwing around the term "Officer." I have a friend who is a retired sergeant major, and he is more "commanding" than anyone who ever wore gold on their shoulder boards. More than one E6+ has spent the majority of his time keeping the O1-3s from screwing up or killing their entire unit. I think military commander is a better term, but don't require an O rank. Top grade non-comms have all the contacts and many of the talents of good officers, just not the social standing. And the social issues are the only major difference, which is handled by things outside the prestige class.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Maybe the difference should simply be based on if a level is spent by the character in either ROTC, OCS or a Naval/Military Academy. One gets one less level in a pure combat service of pre-adventuring advancement, but gains the benefits of being an officer as opposed to an enlisted man or Non-Com.

IMHO this to a degree simulates a tiny bit of the feel of the CT/MT advanced character generation, one had to spend a term in ROTC or an Academy, or roll OCS at random to be an officer, likewise one has to spend a level of character generation (sounds like T20 characters will have a few levels at start of play) to be an officer, in lew of getting more military orientated skills.

Anyway, just a thought, remember I'm just some despotic emperor.

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It is not I who am crazy, it's I who am mad!

 

[eclipse]

I see that someone has already entered the spy/intellence Prestige Class up for suggestion.

One of my favorite campaign hooks is the wheels in wheels, dark secrets stuff. It's aways fun to have someone from Imperial Naval Intellegence (INI)on board. Then he finds out that the Scout is from their Intelligence branch, and the Major, yup...Imperial Army Intelligence. Stir in an investigator from the Imperial Ministry of Justice and let interservice rivaleries simmer.

I like the Martial Artist idea too.
I'm thinking of putting together a professional duelist. Right now I'd probably go Merc class, with a possible Noble multiclass.

 

[CharmQuark]

Here are some more interesting ideas (I am brainstorming so please excuse if I cover something already mentioned above):

Evangilist
Rock Star
Assassin
Con Artist
Sniper
Gladiator or Even Professional Athlete (Go Flash)
Monk
Psionic Monk/Jedi Wannabe
Duelist
Archeologist
Forensics Pathologist (love that CSI stuff)

Also, as per D&D, prestige classes can also represent metamorphasis:

Cyborg (successive levels taken represent your increased "vaderization")

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by eclipse:
I see that someone has already entered the spy/intellence Prestige Class up for suggestion.

One of my favorite campaign hooks is the wheels in wheels, dark secrets stuff. It's aways fun to have someone from Imperial Naval Intellegence (INI)on board. Then he finds out that the Scout is from their Intelligence branch, and the Major, yup...Imperial Army Intelligence. Stir in an investigator from the Imperial Ministry of Justice and let interservice rivaleries simmer.

I like the Martial Artist idea too.
I'm thinking of putting together a professional duelist. Right now I'd probably go Merc class, with a possible Noble multiclass.

_________________________________________________
As an IRIS heretic, I second the motion on the Spy/Undercover agent prstige class. INI, IMOJ, IAI, and of course IISS all had their clashes over data/ info control.
The martial artist I see as a subset class/specilaist of athlete (which could also be listed I s'pose as a prestige class).

As fer Rock star...that would be imho, a subset of Entertainer...Comedeians? Actors? Pianists? Other musicians? Or just Musician (let the player pick his/her genre).

Assassin. Anyone who unlawfully kills a target person(s) for money qualifies for this...Any Char class can accomplish that with the right tools.

Likewise anyone planting a bomb to kill unlawfully is a terrorist to most folks. Lets skip these fer NPC villainhood, please.

 

[CharmQuark]

First Off, I play a lot of 3E D&D, and I am used to prestige classes designed for villans, so I don't really mind designing inherintly "evil" classes. Also, I think your rejection of classes based on the fact that other classes might be functionally capable of doing the same thing is shallow. Why have seperate merc, army, and marine classes if that is your line of thought?

I have seen three primary uses of prestige class in standard d20 systems: specialization (D&D - Thief Acrobat), membership in group/guild (D&D: Harper Agent for example), or Metamorphasis (D&D stuff like blood mages and such; each level is a further progression in the change - pretty cool).

In the case above, many classes could potentially kill someone, so what? An assassin would get a bonus for attacking unaware targets, be able to use poisons, have access to a secret society and contacts, make cool ninja or street gang hand signs, or whatever. The object of the class is that by selecting it the character (or NPC villan) is streamlining his development towards one end while sacrificing perhaps some of their generality.

 

[Flynn]

Hunter, Martin, et.al,

Could we also include the Psionicist prestige class that was mentioned in the THB, but had been removed. I assume the base work for that one has already been completed.

Thanks for your time,
Flynn

 

[BluWolf]

I am a fan pf prestige classes. I think they are a wonderful way for a ref to create and express different concepts in his setting.

However, I think many prestige classes would be better served as templates rather than actual classes.

Example; in the Traps & Treachery D20 supplement by Fantasy Flight Games (??), there is a prestige class for guild thief. It is well written and has some nice class features. But I don't think it is appropriate as a class. My main reason why is that an affiliation like this (to an organization) can be veryu transient. What happens to the PC that has used a valuable class level should the he no longer be a member of the guild???

I think a template would be a better application here. I will post the example of this guild template later (wrong PC).

One in example for T20 would be the situation of rank in a particular military outfit.

Instead of tying a prestige class to a rank structure simply create a template for it with a definition of what all this implies.

Usually a bunch of mos to skills, access to a feat or two and maybe some material implications as well.

I'll draft one later when I'm not at work.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by CharmQuark:
First Off, I play a lot of 3E D&D, and I am used to prestige classes designed for villans, so I don't really mind designing inherintly "evil" classes. Also, I think your rejection of classes based on the fact that other classes might be functionally capable of doing the same thing is shallow. Why have seperate merc, army, and marine classes if that is your line of thought?
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Your ADnD3e experience notwithstanding, Mr CharmQuark...May I add that I have played every version of AD & D since 1980 when I was a college freshman, and Gm'd since then in all of its variants/ edition since then? Not to flame, just to assure you my OPINION was not based in shallow moral relativism. ADn D 2e did away with the Assassin class, not for Shallow reasons, but that anyone who was paid to kill another could be an assassin. Mages killing mages for the spellbooks, rather than develop their own is a mainstay of Forgotten realm's(tm) history (ask Ed Greenwood--I did)..an example.
Killing for country/ nation/world/Imperium is not assassination. It is the unfortunate end result of WAR, sir. I have been to war (this is my third, btw). (I will now refrain from heat now...)[deleted passage].
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I have seen three primary uses of prestige class in standard d20 systems: specialization (D&D - Thief Acrobat), membership in group/guild (D&D: Harper Agent for example), or Metamorphasis (D&D stuff like blood mages and such; each level is a further progression in the change - pretty cool).

In the case above, many classes could potentially kill someone, so what? An assassin would get a bonus for attacking unaware targets, be able to use poisons, have access to a secret society and contacts, make cool ninja or street gang hand signs, or whatever. The object of the class is that by selecting it the character (or NPC villan) is streamlining his development towards one end while sacrificing perhaps some of their generality.

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I have no objections to your examples above. I object to an "Assassin" prestige class, based on the reasons ADnD2e used.
I do not wish to see that Pandora's box opened in Traveller. If you wish to create one in YTU, great! More power to you, its YTU. But not in mine, lad. Thank you for answering my post in a civil manner. I hope I have done the same for you.