System level invasion

[Orc65001]

Don't confuse medical knowledge and technology with biological knowledge and technology.

Ok.. I won't

That's biowarfare without medical tech of note.

I forgot about that, thanks. Didn't know about the malarial monkeys, though.

Thinking that Kafer biological knowledge and technology is somehow lacking because the Kafer choose to limit personal medical technology doesn't make sense given what the Kafer are manifestly able to do.

Alright, Kafer have the knowledge.

Also, suggesting that the Kafer somehow happen to be carriers for a few diseases that also happen to be fatal to dozens of different species of Terran flora and fauna is special pleading.

The text seems to refer to Kafer Rot as one fungal disease, which affects crops, and gives rise to other fungal infections, I can't seem to find any more information on it, although I can't seem to find where it says it was fatal, perhaps I used the wrong word when I described them as dangerous.

Intentionally released or not, the primary target is the crops, and rereading the text, I see that I may have read into it some, the text does not mention fauna or humans being affected directly.

I'll reread the 2300 books but from memory Kafer Rot is the only bio-weapon employed by the Kafer.
Page 62 in the Kafer Sourcebook, discusses the Kafer medical knowledge in a little more detail and seems to state that their medical technology is quite adequate, they use disinfectants and antibiotics, but their antiseptics are generally irritants (like carbolic acid or alcohol). Field treatment includes cauterising deep wounds and amputated limbs.
On their non-existent medical technology, it would seem to be a statement of comparison to earth medical technology. It does say that the Kafer understanding of physiology is somewhat lacking, for instance they do not fully understand the mechanism that triggers their intelligence boost.

Thanks again for your comments and suggestions Orr and yours Aramis.

I have made some hasty assumptions in the rush to get ready for play. But if I am correct on the Kafer Rot being primarily a crop killer and a one and only use of bio-weapons by the Kafer.
Then the only issue that needs some rationalisation is, why don't the Kafer simply start bombarding the human planets with Near-C rocks from the Oort Cloud. I'm assuming that this can be done with their available technology or with Ylii assistance.
Aside from psychological and cultural factors, how does one rationalise engaging in ship to ship or Kafer to Human combat, when they can bomb the bogeymen to death from afar in relative safety. Does it need rationalisation, given the Kafer's peculiar psychology and culture?

 

[Orr]

Orc65001, it's your campaign and your setting. All you need to worry about is meeting the needs of your players. We're just trying to find and plug any holes, holes your players will most likely never notice because they're too busy having fun!

Aside from psychological and cultural factors, how does one rationalise engaging in ship to ship or Kafer to Human combat, when they can bomb the bogeymen to death from afar in relative safety. Does it need rationalisation, given the Kafer's peculiar psychology and culture?

Striker of Star's philosophy, the one that has kept the current Kafer civilization from imploding like all the previous ones, codifies the need to continually face personal dangers. The Kafer want, indeed need, to test themselves mano a mano against the threats their civilization requires to survive. Dropping near-c rocks isn't personal enough.

Tech-wise, I don't think stutter warp will give a rock the velocity you'll need. You'll still need a thrust agency of some sort.

Remember, this setting is yours and the only thing at matters is meeting your groups' needs.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Tech-wise, I don't think stutter warp will give a rock the velocity you'll need. You'll still need a thrust agency of some sort.

One point I'm going to have to beg to differ about. Ever read Secret of the Ancients? If you have a stutterwarp big enough to move your rock, you build up velocity sort of the same way Grandfather and his Children did. Let your rock fall toward something with some gravity, on the correct vector. Before it gets there, stutterwarp it back to starting point - it retains the built-up velocity. Lather rinse repeat, and before long you have yourself a near-C rock that you then stutterwarp to the correct location relative to your target and release.

 

[Carlobrand]

One point I'm going to have to beg to differ about. Ever read Secret of the Ancients? If you have a stutterwarp big enough to move your rock, you build up velocity sort of the same way Grandfather and his Children did. Let your rock fall toward something with some gravity, on the correct vector. Before it gets there, stutterwarp it back to starting point - it retains the built-up velocity. Lather rinse repeat, and before long you have yourself a near-C rock that you then stutterwarp to the correct location relative to your target and release.

I'm not familiar with stutterwarp and have to presume he's doing this in either the new T5 or in the original 2300 - which after reading up on these Kafers I've pretty well decided needs to be on my wish list.

Anyway, how precisely does one refuel a ship that is going progressively faster and then jumping back to start with its original Einstein-space velocity intact?

 

[Orr]

One point I'm going to have to beg to differ about. Ever read Secret of the Ancients? If you have a stutterwarp big enough to move your rock, you build up velocity sort of the same way Grandfather and his Children did. Let your rock fall toward something with some gravity, on the correct vector. Before it gets there, stutterwarp it back to starting point - it retains the built-up velocity. Lather rinse repeat, and before long you have yourself a near-C rock that you then stutterwarp to the correct location relative to your target and release.

That will work, gravity is the "thrust vector" in this case. The Ancients used teleportation discs stacked in a gravity well.

I was pointing out that stutter warp by itself will not impart a normal space vector on an object.

 

[Orc65001]

holes your players will most likely never notice

My group will eventually find the holes despite having fun.

Striker of Star's philosophy

One of the reasons I chose the Kafer, the other is: I just love the intelligence boost adrenal reaction.

Tech-wise, I don't think stutter warp will give a rock the velocity you'll need.

What about a really big Mass Driver?

Remember, this setting is yours and the only thing at matters is meeting your groups' needs.

True, but it helps to iron out some of the kinks before you start, and that's what these forums are good at.

I'm still not sure on the exact FTL technology to use, I'll check some other threads for ideas. Given that I'll be using updated 2300 star maps, the FTL drives performance will be rated in LY per time period. I still want the communication time to equal travel time.

 

[McPerth]

Anyway, how precisely does one refuel a ship that is going progressively faster and then jumping back to start with its original Einstein-space velocity intact?

Stutterwarp doesn't need refuelling after use, as jump drive does. It is based on tunneling to give pseudo-velocity (when stoped the former vector is kept) and only needs power, that with a fission or fusion plant will last for years.

 

[Kilgs]

Ok.. I won't
The text seems to refer to Kafer Rot as one fungal disease, which affects crops, and gives rise to other fungal infections, I can't seem to find any more information on it, although I can't seem to find where it says it was fatal, perhaps I used the wrong word when I described them as dangerous.

Intentionally released or not, the primary target is the crops, and rereading the text, I see that I may have read into it some, the text does not mention fauna or humans being affected directly.

I'll reread the 2300 books but from memory Kafer Rot is the only bio-weapon employed by the Kafer.

The only weapon known. Kafer Rot causes tufty fungal growths that affect crops and other terran type plants. It is never stated that there is a separate bio-weapon affecting humans but there have been several deaths and (IIRC) the lungs have been filled with similar growths. In other words, the human infection is either a separate weapon or the same weapon but it could also be an unintentional effect of the Rot. It has not affected humans in large numbers.

I think it's in Kafer Dawn but it might be Invasion. Can't remember.

 

[Orc65001]

The only weapon known. Kafer Rot causes tufty fungal growths......

Thanks mate, I'll look around in the books a little more. Not sure how to use this yet. We've only just gotten past character creation.

Mmm....... assuming a small Kafer scout ship arrived in system and managed to avoid detection, they could establish a secret base, (maybe out in the Kuiper Belt somewhere). Having observed humanity for a while they decide that mankind is a serious threat. They opt to use Kafer Rot as a prelude to attack. Covert delivery might prove tricky and the weapon itself may raise suspicions, once it is analysed.

 

[Piper]

Stutterwarp doesn't need refuelling after use, as jump drive does. It is based on tunneling to give pseudo-velocity (when stoped the former vector is kept) and only needs power, that with a fission or fusion plant will last for years.

Which raises the question of how does it go into orbit around a planet or match vectors with any other object in space? If a stutterwarp ship is at rest, it's only at rest with respect to something that has its own unique vector.

Am I sensing an oops moment here?

 

[rancke]

Which raises the question of how does it go into orbit around a planet or match vectors with any other object in space? If a stutterwarp ship is at rest, it's only at rest with respect to something that has its own unique vector.

A stutterwarp ship would have a normal-space drive for matching vectors, wouldn't it?


Hans

 

[Piper]

You would think so.

"Star Cruiser" calls those thrusters and most ships don't have them (except for small compressed gas ones). Seems like a lot to ask from a maneuvering thruster.

 

[mike wightman]

The delta V required to match orbital vectors requires a considerable reaction mass if you want to do it quickly you use a rocket.

A stutter warp ship can match orbital velocity with a destination world by using the destination world as its reaction mass, it has to modify its original vector by switching off the drive for a bit and let the planet's gravity change its vector a bit, then warp back a bit and repeat until it has the orbital velocity required.

Deep space rendezvous by warp ships is easy, docking is out of the question if they have different orbital velocities from their points of origin.

Note that you can install a drive that allows interface with a world, such a drive could be used to quickly match vectors.

 

[Piper]

The delta V required to match orbital vectors requires a considerable reaction mass if you want to do it quickly you use a rocket.

A stutter warp ship can match orbital velocity with a destination world by using the destination world as its reaction mass, it has to modify its original vector by switching off the drive for a bit and let the planet's gravity change its vector a bit, then warp back a bit and repeat until it has the orbital velocity required.

Clever. I hadn't thought of that. Still, variations between local standards of rest between two stars ... this maneuver could take some serious time. Might be interesting to see just how much delta-v you need to shed/acquire going from say Sol to Alpha C.

Note that you can install a drive that allows interface with a world, such a drive could be used to quickly match vectors.

Yes, "Star Cruiser" calls those thrusters; a modification to an MHD power plant.

 

[McPerth]

Clever. I hadn't thought of that. Still, variations between local standards of rest between two stars ... this maneuver could take some serious time. Might be interesting to see just how much delta-v you need to shed/acquire going from say Sol to Alpha C.

Yes, in 2300AD setting orbiting/deorbiting are delicate and time consuming opperations (and a very vulnerable moment if you're attacking the planet, as Borodin showed against the Kaffers).

My take is that most (if not all) orbital facilities have tugs to allow ships to dock on them, and the ships not equiped with trusters just dock on there. Those same tugs may give the desired vector for the next stop to the ship when leaving.

 

[rancke]

Yes, in 2300AD setting orbiting/deorbiting are delicate and time consuming opperations (and a very vulnerable momento if you're attacking the planet, as Borodin showed against the Kaffers).

My take is that most (if not all) orbital facilities have tugs to allow ships to dock on them, and the ships noe quiped with trusters just dock on there. Those same tugs may give the desired vector for the next stop to the ship when leaving.

Invaders would presumably do the same in the departure system to reduce the problems of establishing orbits around the destination world.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

Invaders would presumably do the same in the departure system to reduce the problems of establishing orbits around the destination world.


Hans

Sure, but once in the target system combats (should here be any) may either alter vectors or timing (and the planet changes vector with time, dure to translation movement, so relative vectors are changed too).

The dependnece on stutterwarp drives (due to lack of gravitics drives and trusers in most ships) in 2300AD setting makes the delicate maneuvering near orbit quite more challenging, and even more about interface moves.

 

[Piper]

Good points and perfectly reasonable solutions.

I'm not really looking at this from an "OMG it's hopelessly broken! Trash the whole drive idea!!!" point of view but rather trying to see what sorts of problems (and solutions) might be associated with it.

 

[phavoc]

Logistics

If you would like a hefty reference on the logistics of planning for war in a more modern context, check out Dunigan's How to Make War.

 

[Timerover51]

If you would like a hefty reference on the logistics of planning for war in a more modern context, check out Dunigan's How to Make War.

Dunigan understates the problem of logistics by a significant margin.