System level invasion

[McPerth]

Every time you establish a beachhead a deep site meson gun will obliterate it.

Yes, deep meson guns are quite dangerous for the attackers, and intelligence is the best way to finish them (or their sensors/power supply, usually easier to disable).

In the Rebellion (where most of the HiPop planet assaults occur in OTU), I guess we can asume most of the DMG sites were known by the attacker, as the fleet is likely to know them (after all, until short time before they were allied, and I'd expect the Imperiun not to allow them to be built without its control), and so they should be very vulnerable to attacker's fleet too.

One drawback of the DMG, though, is the need for power and sensors (as told above), as if they are deeper than the densiometers range, they must have the sensors away from them (and probably more vulnerable). They also need huge amounts of power, whose sources might be attacked too.

And using them against the landing zones will be like nuking your own planet, so I guess not very popular moves, probably alienating (at least) parts of the population.

 

[Timerover51]

To atpollard and McPerth, I have discontinued posting any further responses to this thread. I am not ignoring your posts, but I will not respond to them or any others on this thread.

 

[Orr]

I chose the Kafer because... their lack of medical technology and knowledge (no bio-weapons)...

You got that last bit wrong.

The Kafer have medical knowledge, they just don't use it in the same way we do because of the way they perceive pain.

Pain increases their intelligence and every application of pain increase the chance that they'll remain intelligent permanently. Pain is their gateway to a higher state of being. Because of that, preventing pain is seen as an abomination and, because they choose not to employ anesthesia, their ability to perform surgery is limited. All of that is a choice on their part.

As for bio-weapons, the Kafer most definitely used them and most likely several different kinds. The worlds in the French Arm were still dealing with the effects after the Kafer invasion was defeated. There's a lung disease and something called Kafer Rot which attacks humans. There's also another weapon which targets Terran agriculture and the soils suitable for that agriculture. Tanstaafl and the Ukrainian colony on Aurora in particular are suffering from the last, especially given the need for "paydirt" treated soils to raise any human-edible crops.

Using Kafers will lessen your logistic burden somewhat. They can scrounge up meals from nearly anything (including the dead), they aren't going to need field hospitals, aid stations, and all that entails, and they aren't too worried about dying. They'll need to keep the ammo flowing and very little else.

 

[McPerth]

So I decided to have present day earth invaded by the Kafer (my group has not read any of the 2300AD material).

2300 setting is quite different from OTU and faces different challenges:

1. Shipping is quite scarcer, making moving supplies and troops harder
2. There are no gravitics, making interface opperations very harder
3. Energy weapons are not with integral batteries, needing ammo too
4. There is no ortillery possible with the usual ship's weapons (at least in classical 2300AD, not so clear in MgT 2300), so you need to take your artillery (quite a load) if you want to have its support or just allow the fleet to conduct kinetic or nuke attacks, but not precision ortillery strikes
5. Related to 2: space fighters are less useful (if at all) in atmospheric opperations, so air power must also be brought to the assaulted planet

OTOH:

1. There are fewer high population systems. In fact, only Earth (pop A) and Tirane (Pop 9) will meet Traveller criteria, the next one being Nibelungen (pop 7) And both , Tirane and Nibelungen must be (at least) neutralized for the Kafers to reach Earth.
2. Related to the the lack or ortillery, few (if any) wepons from inside atmosphere may challenge the orbiting fleet

As you see, situation changes quite a lot (that's why I left it out in my former post)

BTW, for the planetary defenses and use of non-starship weaponry in against ships (both isues can be useful in such an invasion) I sugest you to read those threads:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=29256
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=29257

(IIRC there were some others that also discussed similar issues, but those were the most relevant, IMHO)

 

[McPerth]

Using Kafers will lessen your logistic burden somewhat. They can scrounge up meals from nearly anything (including the dead), they aren't going to need field hospitals, aid stations, and all that entails, and they aren't too worried about dying. They'll need to keep the ammo flowing and very little else.

OTOH, their equipement is heavier and more rugged tahn human one, and uses to be less maintained and (due to Kafer brutishness) more prone to breakdowns, so I guess more (and heavier) spares will be needed.

Agreed in the rest of your post.

The Kafer regard humans as "smart barbarians", basically we are the Kafer version of the boogey man. So they want to exterminate us.

And precisely because of this I don't believe the Kafers would try to conquer Earth, just to render in uninhabitable and exterminate its population, and that could be better done just by orbital bombing (either with nukes or just kinetic rocks).

Earth is not too appealling for the Kaffers (gravity too low, light too intense, atmosphere too thin, too cold, etc...). They have not the same population presure as humans to colonize any posible world, and they will have no compelling reasons to leave humans alive (as shown in Hochbaden they don't refrain from atrocities, not being stoppend by PR reasons).

I guess their attitude before such "Smart barbarinas that come to end our civilization" will be alike of the K'Kree with carnivores: total extermination, not conquering nor surrunder.

 

[Orr]

Agreed in the rest of your post.

Sadly, unlike your post my post didn't touch on the lack of gravitics, the smaller number of ships, the smaller size of ships, etc., etc.

While the Kafers have fewer logistical needs, they have no where near the logistic lift capability the OTU enjoys.

 

[Reban]

So you are going to gather intelligence on every deep meson site?

So this world has no counter intelligence forces either.

What's your concept of intelligence gathering? There are multiple strands and by exploiting all of them an attack should be able to build up a fairly complete picture of defenses, what is missed should be picked up by reconnaissance from the attacker's fleet. And yes that includes when ships start exploding due to meson fire,

But you have to understand that a complete intelligence picture is only built up slowly by exploiting every source. Analysts not field agents do most of the work. Trawl the System Government's budget, see where their spending went during the construction period for the DMG sites, estimate how many, how big and where they are, follow up with field agents confirming sensor and site locations. Do this type of analysis and follow-up on every strand you can to build "the big picture".

For an idea of how such intelligence gathering might work in the search for DMGs look to Earths Cold War era and how both the US and USSR tracked each others nuclear programs. Of course there is no such thing as perfect intelligence, both sides got estimates of the other sides capabilities wildly wrong in the 50's.

There's also the HUMINT route. Turn someone inside the Deep Meson Site command structure and have him pass you a map or a crew roster. Bribe the MegaCorp that supplied the meson guns with a juicy contract.

And of course there are counter intelligence forces but that doesn't checkmate intelligence operations it only makes them more difficult and then only if the counter intelligence agency is efficient.

A TL15 high pop world can have how many meson guns? One hundred, one thousand? Which will only fire on you after you have fired on them?

Any fleet coming within range of planetary meson guns is going to lose a lot of ships very quickly

Actually I have no idea how many DMGs a TL15 high pop world could have. How many depends on the perceived threats, the local budget, the military culture, even the amount of suitable rock strata to build the aiming chambers in.

The point is you don't launch any invasion before you know as much about your target as possible.

Any Admiral that sends his fleet steaming into orbit and range of any suspected defenses is an idiot and should be shot on the bridge. Fleets are made up of many assets. Keep your major assets, the capital ships and the troop/assault transports, back and send in your expendable assets. Drones, strike fighters, commando teams. Send in an old cruiser on autopilot to trawl for fire. Do everything possible to clear a safe path for your invasion forces.

Part of any invasion plan is a "defense suppression plan" which draws together all the knowledge of what and where the defenses are and assigns the proper assets to neutralize or suppress them.

My original point bears restating, invasions are a slow methodical process in which the attacker prepares in order to insure victory.

As to landing combine harvesters - it was a bit flippant but no world is just going to neatly package resources for an invader to come and take.

Turn it round.

You are the ruler of a high pop TL15 world - how do you defend your world?

Ah but you see they do "neatly package" the things you might want. Assume your invasion force is designed to have as small a logistical tail as possible (a smart thing to do if your logistical tail stretches over parsecs). Equip and design it to require very little resupply and to be able to exploit resources it captures.

Requiring little resupply: As I mentioned make your force Fusion+ powered. All you need for fuel in water. F+ plants can power energy based weapons like lasers or power equipment to provide H2 (for larger PP or as ammo for Plasma and Fusion guns) and O2 (for life support). Most F+ units contain enough fuel for a year. Make more reliable and survivable equipment (build it better so that it doesnt break down or wear out during normal campaign use so you don't have to carry or ship in a replacement).

Exploiting resources: Most armies provide their motorized troops with stirrup pumps to siphon petrol or gas from wrecked or abandoned vehicles. Armies equipped with the same weapons systems can exploit captured ammunition (note this is why many armies use many different calibers). Traveller assumes a high amount of commonality between worlds and equipment to facilitate trade between worlds so is it not likely that generic power cells for a particular weapon will be interchangeable or more likely that both sides in a conflict buy their weapons from the same handful of MegaCorps?

Other neatly packaged resources include food. I'm not talking about feeding an invading space army by raiding your local Walmart I'm going one or two steps back up the distribution chain to the warehouses that contain the food products in bulk before they are distributed. Of course in planning you must assume this is only supplemental as any good defender will be prepared to torch such stocks in a scorched earth policy.

There are other resources that the invader can exploit too. Communications infrastructure for example. I've already said capture the starport and spaceports, but use the road and rail systems too. Take a leaf out of the alien invader's playbook from Independence Day and take over the defender's satellite and media infrastructure.

The idea is don't haul things along with you if they can be found, captured and exploited on the target world. To make use of the combine harvester example, if you really need them and you know the enemy has their own, send commandos to capture these vital to the war effort combine harvesters (but I'd bring a contingency harvester along just in case a smart defender sabotages all his harvesters befor I can get them, but that still reduces the number I have to bring).

I'll plan a defense of a high pop TL15 world in my next post

 

[Piper]

\I realise this thread is mainly focused upon the OTU setting. But I thought this might be an interesting idea, (despite being a standard sci-fi trope).
Any thoughts?

If you haven't read "Footfall" you might want to give it a look. You might be able to mine it for ideas.
<Spoiler warning>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footfall

 

[Reban]

Defending a world 1/2

As requested by Carlobrand I'm flipping to a defender's viewpoint to see whats necessary to counter an invasion of a system.


Okay the the key here is that I have to defend a whole system so a quick survey of what might be found in a system.

Mainworld (a high pop TL15 world specified by Carlobrand)
Star(s)
Planetoid belt
Gas Giant(s)
Other planets and moons
Space installations and ships.


First up we need search and surveillance capabilities. These can include both military grade sensors and civil space traffic regulation sensors. I'd divide my surveillance sensors into two categories; a deep space surveillance system for general monitoring of the system (useful to the military for detection of in jumps by invaders and by the civil authorities for anti-smuggling and general scientific observations) and a planetary space surveillance system designed to monitor just beyond the 100D line, the "roadstead" where ships move to and from LPO, LPO where ships orbit and down to the airspace and traffic control level. Both these systems have duel military and civilian use but in time of invasion would come under military control. Both systems would consist of multiple manned and unmanned platforms with all the appropriate sensor types. Each platform would overlap its sensor envelop with others to provide redundancy in case of fault or destruction.

Backing up the sensor monitoring are the patrol assets. By definition these are mobile. They may include Patrol cruisers, SDBs, Fighters and small craft, and other ships assigned picket and outpost duties. The idea here is that something detected by the deep space or planetary space sensors may need to be intercepted, investigated or resolved with a closer sensor sweep. You can also move these patrol assets to cover gaps or to increase surveillance on area most likely for enemy units to emerge from jump space.

Following surveillance and detection we have the defending naval forces. First we'll need point defence on certain likely targets for the invader. SBDs are assigned to Gas Giants because it is likely that the invader will emerge close to them and attempt to refuel before undertaking any other operations. SBDs should have access to the planetary space surveillance systems in place around the gas giant to provide situational awareness. The initial data gained before the invader destroys them should help the SDB commander form his plan of attack. SDBs are an active defense but mines are a possible passive defense of gas giants. Mines may be of a traditional warhead type (HE or NukeDet) or might be equipped with a turret weapon system. Mines would be seeded at various depths in the GG.

Other installations out system might warrant their own fixed defenses and assigned fighters or smallcraft but ultimately the defender has to choose whether isolated outposts away from the GGs or Mainworld are worth the effort of defending. One reason not to evacuate them is to tie up the invader who has to attack and neutralize them or undertake siege or security operations to prevent them causing trouble in his "rear area".

Patrol and SDBs might be considered auxiliary vessels to the main defensive fleet. Lets suppose the main fleet is made up of conventional jump capable warships and not specialist non jump ships tailored to system defense. The defender has to divide his force into a disruption force and a reserve force.

The function of the disruptive force is to engage the invading fleet and disrupt its operations. When the sensors detect the incursion of the invading fleet the defender should move his disruptive fleet into range where it can engage. The objective is not necessarily to destroy all the capital ships the enemy has. If you target his troop/assault transports you can strike a bigger blow against his plans.

Of course the smart invader will not bring his troop/assault transports in immediately until he has cleared the defenders naval units. So the disruptive fleet's function becomes to stay alive and delay the invader as long as possible (until invasion becomes impossible or until help from outside arrives).

The Fleet Reserve exists because any incursion by the invader may be a feint, so a reserve is needed that can be moved to counter any new force that emerges while the disruptive fleet is engaged. It would also be unwise to commit all your naval assets straight away and leave your Mainworld undefended. In the case of both fleets they don't have to sit in orbit around the Mainworld. It would be better to deploy them just beyond the 100D limit so that they can react from an advantageous position or indeed jump away if necessary.

Depending on the threat level a third Reserve component could be hidden far out in the Oort cloud or deep space. It can wait and observe the movements of the invader and react with the greatest advantage, timing its attack to come at a critical phase for the invader.

Next the Mainworld defenses....

 

[McPerth]

A TL15 high pop world can have how many meson guns? One hundred, one thousand? Which will only fire on you after you have fired on them?

Any fleet coming within range of planetary meson guns is going to lose a lot of ships very quickly

This is (IMHO, as stated time ago in other threads) something that most Traveller games fail to represent.

Taking as example FFW, once your fleet achieves the control of a system, only SDB will challenge it, giving no representatoin for the planetary fixed defenses that ,as you tell, are a major danger for the orbiting ships. As long as the SDB fleet is kept away (or hiding) you can freely bomb the planet into submissoin with no danger to your bombing fleet.

If you try that in IE (the only game where planetary defenses are really represented, though they don't seem to be DMG) you can expect your fleet to have substantial losses, as you may expect if you simply keep you fleet orbiting Earth wihtout supressing (by bombing or ground combat) the PD units.

 

[Reban]

Defending a world 2/2

In the previous post I covered the surveillance and detection of the invader and using the mobile naval forces to engage and disrupt the invasion plan. In this plan we'll look at what the defender needs to think about in terms of active and passive defenses for the Mainworld.

The area from the 100D limit to the 10D limit might be termed the "roadstead" where ships transit from orbit to the jump limit and vice versa. This will be a vital area for the invader to take control of. If he can interdict vessels moving in this area he can lay siege to a world by preventing ships from jumping in or out (that is by destroying them before they jump or after they emerge). For this reason to prevent siege the defender has not only to clear its own 100D limit but also beyond it to the invaders max weapons range. This in part is the duty of the naval forces discussed above under Disruptive and Reserve Fleets. It can also be accomplished by stationing pickets on or near the 100D limit whose duty it is to detect and push away invader units. They need not be individually strong but should be able to call on other assets.

In the roadstead the object of the defender should be to control the approach to LPO. Methods could include patrols by warships or fighters, minefields, space stations or fortifications.

Patrols are self explanatory but the others need definition. Minefields as with the GG example above aren't just explosive spheres floating in space. Think of them more as cheap numerous autonomous attack vehicles floating on silent waiting for a target to present on their passive sensors. They may be designed like missiles with HE, NukeDet or kinetic warheads or as smallcraft with turret scale weapons. The primary reason to sew a minefield is to funnel the invader where you want him to go, i.e. into range of your most effective weapons.

Space stations are big immobile spaceships and as such are vulnerable. But with Traveller screen technology they can pose a problem that needs to be cleared before the invader can claim space superiority.

Fortifications I've separated from Space stations. The idea here is a strong point not on the Mainworld that needs to be cleared before the invader can take orbit. A sufficiently protected space station could qualify as well if they can keep firing.

Once we drop below LPO we are in the domain of the Army. COACC should be equipped with satellite defense platforms, aerospace fighters and ground based defenses, the Ground Forces should have dispersed field formations capable of counter attacking at any landing site, the wet navy should have sea based and subsurface defenses.

Satellite defense platforms are very similar to the space mines discussed above although their ranges may be less. As well as facing outward to orbit they should be capable of engaging invaders that enter the atmosphere.

Aerospace fighters must be capable of functioning in space and attacking enemy craft that enter LPO. They must also function in the ground attack role supporting the Army's Field Formations.

Ground based defenses. Personally I'd assign all deep meson sites to the COACC. With their satellite platforms they have an outer layer of sensors with which to direct the DMGs fire. DMGs due to their nature can be place anywhere on a world. Each site should have its own multiple, dispersed sensor systems as well as being tied into the larger detection and surveillance system. In other words DMGs are part of a network like the old NORAD to direct and co-ordinate their fire with other weapons systems. DMGs need crew changes and resupply but should be equipped to support a crew for extended periods (a year, maybe decades depending on what paranoia tone you want to set). To keep their locations secret you need to keep their construction secret, keep their sensors at a distance, hide their emissions and cover their crew change and resupply activities. The best place for a DMG may not be under a remote mountain but under a city or existing military base. However like the naval forts of old it may not be possible to keep them secret but only to keep them low visibility or disguise there military purpose.

Other ground based defenses belonging to COACC should include mobile units or missile and directed energy artillery (lasers and energy weapons). In Traveller terms this means mounting turret, barbette and small bay weapons on vehicles like railcars, ATVs and airships and keeping them and their sensors moving and disguised while having them tied into a COACC NORAD style system.

The same goes for the Wet Navy which can probably mount larger bays on submarines and surface ships. Submarines act like mobile DMGs but with added complications for sensors. Anti-spacecraft missiles are also suitable for mounting on subs and surface ships.

The Ground Forces have two tasks 1). Stay alive once the invader is in orbit and 2). Launch counter attacks at the sites of opening orbitheads. The period when jump troops are landing and forming up is when they are most vulnerable so the ground forces need to disrupt them at this point and not allow them to secure their orbithead. Artillery is most useful for this and includes directing DMG fire onto landing zones as they are identified by the defenders ground forces.

Ground forces should also prepare for the worst and train and equip stay-behind forces that in the event of invasion and occupation they can carry on a campaign of resistance.

Things I haven't covered:
Screens and dampers: using screen tech to shield cities or important installations
Intelligence: is important for the defender and includes the detection and surveillance system outlined in post 1 but the defender is reactive in nature and good intelligence can only go so far when the invader is actually knocking down your door.
The Population: i.e. the civilians. Unfortunately for the defender the population can become both a tool (as a human/sophont shield) or a hindrance (displaced refugees, cover for fifth columnist, agitators for surrender). We of course also have examples of civilian populations taking up arms to assist in the defense. On the whole the population aspect is beyond the scope of this treatment.

 

[Piper]

This is (IMHO, as stated time ago in other threads) something that most Traveller games fail to represent.

Taking as example FFW, once your fleet achieves the control of a system, only SDB will challenge it, giving no representatoin for the planetary fixed defenses that ,as you tell, are a major danger for the orbiting ships. As long as the SDB fleet is kept away (or hiding) you can freely bomb the planet into submissoin with no danger to your bombing fleet.

They *might* be represented abstractly in FFW. At the start of the war, Garda-Vilis has a deep site meson gun, "a pair of system defense boats, and a few fighters." Ground forces consist of "a few companies of Vilisan Civil Affairs Troops".

Source for this is from Adventure 7.

The Garda-Vilis box in FFW shows 10 for SDB's and 150 for defense battalions.

This *might* represent (in an abstract way) the deep site meson gun. Alternately (and probably more likely) is that it was a simple bit of internal inconsistency.

I mean, these guys were designing games, not writing histories. I'm sure they never expected any of this to come under this level of scrutiny.

If you try that in IE (the only game where planetary defenses are really represented, though they don't seem to be DMG) you can expect your fleet to have substantial losses, as you may expect if you simply keep you fleet orbiting Earth wihtout supressing (by bombing or ground combat) the PD units.

"Invasion: Earth" has planetary defense, too. Two kinds; fixed and mobile.

 

[McPerth]

They *might* be represented abstractly in FFW. At the start of the war, Garda-Vilis has a deep site meson gun, "a pair of system defense boats, and a few fighters." Ground forces consist of "a few companies of Vilisan Civil Affairs Troops".

Source for this is from Adventure 7.

The Garda-Vilis box in FFW shows 10 for SDB's and 150 for defense battalions.

This *might* represent (in an abstract way) the deep site meson gun. Alternately (and probably more likely) is that it was a simple bit of internal inconsistency.

I mean, these guys were designing games, not writing histories. I'm sure they never expected any of this to come under this level of scrutiny.

The number of batalions represented in FFW is acording to a table (TAS Journal 10, page 24) depending on pop and TL. I guess SDB were on a similar table that was (AFAIK) not published.

While I also thought about DMG being represented among the SDB factor, the fact that they can hide wile the planet is invaded made me think against this idea.

If you try that in IE (the only game where planetary defenses are really represented, though they don't seem to be DMG) you can expect your fleet to have substantial losses, as you may expect if you simply keep you fleet orbiting Earth wihtout supressing (by bombing or ground combat) the PD units.

"Invasion: Earth" has planetary defense, too. Two kinds; fixed and mobile.

Yes, Invasion:Earth is what I refered to when I used the acronym IE. Sorry if I was not clear (the use of acronyms somtimes leads to confusion)

 

[jec10]

I'm pretty sure that the fixed planetary defence units in Invasion Earth are deep site meson guns. I'd highly recommend people interested in the planetary invasion issue in Traveller actually play Invasion Earth. It really does give you a great feel for many of the issues involved, and it is of course the only detailed treatment of the issue in the Traveller canon.

There is no reason you can't use the IE game system for a different planetary system anywhere in the OTU. In fact, the last few pages of the IE rulebook recommend you do just that, and include some extra rules for representing non-grav lower-tech forces. The problem is that you'd have to design all the forces involved from scratch along with generating a planetary map, which could be quite time consuming. But assuming you had the time on your hands, you can use the IE game system to fight one of the great seige battles from 5FW, for instance. Or if MegaTrav is your thing, you could recreate one of the Rebellion seiges or invasions that caught your interest.

 

[Piper]

Yes, Invasion:Earth is what I refered to when I used the acronym IE. Sorry if I was not clear (the use of acronyms somtimes leads to confusion)

No, the fault is mine and I apologize. For some reason, when I saw IE, I interpreted it as "Imperium" which (along with "Dark Nebula") also has planetary defense units.

Again, my apologies for the confusion.

 

[Carlobrand]

This is (IMHO, as stated time ago in other threads) something that most Traveller games fail to represent.

Taking as example FFW, once your fleet achieves the control of a system, only SDB will challenge it, giving no representatoin for the planetary fixed defenses that ,as you tell, are a major danger for the orbiting ships. As long as the SDB fleet is kept away (or hiding) you can freely bomb the planet into submissoin with no danger to your bombing fleet.

If you try that in IE (the only game where planetary defenses are really represented, though they don't seem to be DMG) you can expect your fleet to have substantial losses, as you may expect if you simply keep you fleet orbiting Earth wihtout supressing (by bombing or ground combat) the PD units.

Earth of IE has a grand total of three fixed installation PD corps, 17 fixed installation PD divisions, and 4 mobile PD regiments. They use the same bombardment table used by SDBs instead of using the space combat table, which likely makes it easier to calculate but means they aren't as deadly as they might otherwise be - and is a bit odd since I figure SDBs to rely heavily on missiles while the capital ships in space combat rely more on their spinals, and a deep meson is fundamentally a spinal.

One corps has about as much punch as a squadron and a half of dreadnoughts. One division has a bit under half as much punch as the corps (4 verses 9). So, Earth's defenses are equivalent to about 15-16 Dn squadrons. You could use that to figure the planetary defenses in FFW.

However, there are only a handful of worlds in FFW with a pop big enough to maintain a noticeable strength of planetary defense. Earth is a population A world as of the invasion, I think. Only worlds in that league in the FFW battle map are Louzy, Porozlo, Rethe, and Riverland, the highest of which is TL10 in that game - too low for meson tech. A magnitude down from that, you could argue the equivalent of 1 squadron in deep meson batteries at Cronor, Efate, Jewell and Rhylanor, but that's not going to make much of a difference. A few worlds at the Pop 8 level might have one deep meson to keep off a raiding cruiser, but that is not enough to be noticeable in the strategic picture.

Of course, you aren't bound by IE's way of doing things any more than you'd be bound by FFW's treatment of SDBs. Still even a single division of PD troops, manning enough deep mesons to match 5 or 6 dreadnoughts, is not a cheap proposition. There will be very few worlds with both the tax base and the tech level to give much of a fight to capital ships. Most will content themselves with missile-based planetary defenses to hold off inbound troop transports, space fighters and isolated raiders.

 

[flykiller]

the highest of which is TL10 in that game

recall that their tech level is their inherent capability. the imperium however will (imtu) have imported significant tech 14/15 defensive capability.

 

[Orr]

About Garda-Vilis deep meson gun site, I think it is more of a plot point than an indication of anything else. The DMG is there to keep the Zhodani strike cruiser and other warships from directly destroying the players' Broadsword and nothing more.

There are a lot of parts of that adventure which can't bear close scrutiny. The merc cruiser lands, for example, and Vilis has disarmed the planetary army but is still somehow controlling a world of 500(?) million with a few civil affairs battalions.

 

[Piper]

Yeah, it was a stretch.

That said, are there any sources that provide hard data on the defenses of any system in the FFW area? Might be interesting to try and reverse engineer it.

 

[Orr]

Yeah, it was a stretch.

As I just wrote in another thread, people try to do things with the rules that the rules were never intended to do. Still, it's fun right?

That said, are there any sources that provide hard data on the defenses of any system in the FFW area? Might be interesting to try and reverse engineer it.

FFW just notes SDBs and defense battalions. (The game also doesn't use jump fuel regulators!). Reverse engineering might be fun, but I don't think we could find much to hang our hats on.

IE has DMGs and the Imperial player can target them by various means, so there's some wrinkle we're overlooking. Maybe the targeting/sensor angle? A DMG's Achilles heel is it's need for surface/orbital sensors?