Surface to Space missiles?
- Thread starter rancke
- Start date
By which ruleset? I'm presuming a TL-7 missile?
And, are we targetting specifically SDBs, or spaceships in general. SDBs are likely to have armored hulls, have high movement ratings and are likely to operate in places difficult for guerillas to access - like the ocean depths. If there's a serious guerilla issue on the planet, I'd also expect some sort of surface patrol or other measures to keep unwelcome visitors at a safe distance. Getting something man-portable that will handle an SDB's agility and armor - I can't do that at this TL.
Civilian ship hulls are easier to crack, and it's probably easier for a guerilla to put himself in a position to get a shot at one. At TL7, Striker rules, I can give you a man-portable homing missile with a penetration of 40 (equal to the ship hull rating), a range of 1 km and a speed DM of +10, weighs just under 10 Kg. It should be adequate for civilian targets.
However, I can't guarantee it will do more than punch a hole in the ship or maybe cause a fuel leak - civilian ships tend to have a lot of passenger and cargo space.
And, are we targetting specifically SDBs, or spaceships in general. SDBs are likely to have armored hulls, have high movement ratings and are likely to operate in places difficult for guerillas to access - like the ocean depths. If there's a serious guerilla issue on the planet, I'd also expect some sort of surface patrol or other measures to keep unwelcome visitors at a safe distance. Getting something man-portable that will handle an SDB's agility and armor - I can't do that at this TL.
Civilian ship hulls are easier to crack, and it's probably easier for a guerilla to put himself in a position to get a shot at one. At TL7, Striker rules, I can give you a man-portable homing missile with a penetration of 40 (equal to the ship hull rating), a range of 1 km and a speed DM of +10, weighs just under 10 Kg. It should be adequate for civilian targets.
However, I can't guarantee it will do more than punch a hole in the ship or maybe cause a fuel leak - civilian ships tend to have a lot of passenger and cargo space.
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
Technically, you don't have to pentrate the hull, just take out the drives (since it's actually a weaknes in the hull), the ship will crash after that is acoomplished.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
What rules are you using? I'm not overly familiar with CT Supp 3, but my take would be for your guerrillas to steal a small craft, such as a launch or lifeboat, mount a triple missile launcher on the fixed hardpoint, and send it up.
Otherwise, the rules are essential - what size missile can reach orbit under your rules? What size warhead can damage the armour under your rules? etc.
If turret missiles can reach orbit and penetrate the hull, the guerrillas could simply mount a turret launcher on a ground vehicle and fire from cover.
Need to know more about your game. IMTU, you need Bay Weapons to reach orbit - think SLBM.
No specific rules set. Just how things "really" work in the OTU. After all, in a real world, combat doesn't suddenly change because the underlying rules change. Rather, either a set of rules reflects reality well or it reflects reality poorly.
I had written something about how Heya's counter-insurrectionist forces were underfunded because a lot of the military budget went to maintain a bunch of SDBs. Dragoner pointed out that SDBs would be quite effective counter-insurrectionist units themselves. So I cast about for some way to make the SDBs less effective and thought about an analog of SAM missiles.
Jerry Pournelle has his rebels shoot down observation sattelites with cheap rockets that shoot ball bearing up into their paths, but sattelites are fragile.
Hans
I had written something about how Heya's counter-insurrectionist forces were underfunded because a lot of the military budget went to maintain a bunch of SDBs. Dragoner pointed out that SDBs would be quite effective counter-insurrectionist units themselves. So I cast about for some way to make the SDBs less effective and thought about an analog of SAM missiles.
Jerry Pournelle has his rebels shoot down observation sattelites with cheap rockets that shoot ball bearing up into their paths, but sattelites are fragile.
Hans
It might be enough to use standard turret missiles, if the guerrillas have access to them. Those might not be good if the SDBs are in orbit, but in orbit, the SDBs are limited to being ortillery, which might be less effective than if they flew down lower, so they might work as a deterrent. Of course, they have to have access to the missiles, which is easier if the local TL is high enough to make good enough missiles. Potentially, if the guerrillas have enough resources, they could get something set up with the firepower of a bay, whether that's the size of the missiles or the number, but then that would probably become a high-priority target.
Rust the Hull.
In most versions of the rules, hulls are an iron meteor or advanced Steel or Crystaliron or Superdense (which very well may be collapsed iron given the steady prior research into improving an iron hull).
So the rebels may have a nanite or life form or chemical compound that is highly reactive with iron ... so SDBs fear sabotage and rust (less a serious combat threat than a maintenance nightmare that makes deploying SDBs cost prohibitive)
Annual maintenance becomes monthly maintenance at combat damage prices ... you chemically treat everything, mill/refurbish the hull & drives & sensors & turrets & weapons, and completely replace 1 point of armor.
Just offering another idea.
In most versions of the rules, hulls are an iron meteor or advanced Steel or Crystaliron or Superdense (which very well may be collapsed iron given the steady prior research into improving an iron hull).
So the rebels may have a nanite or life form or chemical compound that is highly reactive with iron ... so SDBs fear sabotage and rust (less a serious combat threat than a maintenance nightmare that makes deploying SDBs cost prohibitive)
Annual maintenance becomes monthly maintenance at combat damage prices ... you chemically treat everything, mill/refurbish the hull & drives & sensors & turrets & weapons, and completely replace 1 point of armor.
Just offering another idea.
Analogous with real life, the guerillas could buy higher TL missiles (same missiles as ship missiles), which then they just use in the same fashion as a TOW/HOT setup. It would force the military powers that be to make a decision about commiting the SBD's in such a way that they might lose them. Lack of intelligence about how many missiles the guerillas have would mean that the SBD's are held back from battle and the guerillas would be unwilling to use their precious missiles against regular ground forces.
Target the crew. SDB's wont work unless there is someone to opperate them and resistance rebels are civillians which blend nicely into the civilian population. If the crew are sequestered on well defended military bases when not on service, one, it's not going to be a popular job, and two you can still target the crew if they have families. Your rebels need to make this job in the planetary military the most undesirable one.
Though if it's strictly shooting missiles at them the rules still are kind of important.
In TNE for instance you could get a missile similar to a real world TOW, MILAN, AT5 Spandrel or Javelin that would punch the hull and could be man handled by two people.
It wouldn't have much range though so they'd have to engage during takeoff and landing.
To reach low orbit however you're looking more like something the size of a scud missile.
The CT space missile however was only 50 kilograms wasn't it?
Though if it's strictly shooting missiles at them the rules still are kind of important.
In TNE for instance you could get a missile similar to a real world TOW, MILAN, AT5 Spandrel or Javelin that would punch the hull and could be man handled by two people.
It wouldn't have much range though so they'd have to engage during takeoff and landing.
To reach low orbit however you're looking more like something the size of a scud missile.
The CT space missile however was only 50 kilograms wasn't it?
TNE's Smash & Grab supplement has an adventure where a world keeps Vampire fleets at bay with a remnant planetary aerospace defense (PAD) system consisting of TL 11 nuclear missiles in silos. There's no stats, but the illustration shows them to be about 20 meters tall.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Ok, real-world.
As suggested by others, targeting the crew or supply logistics, or getting a man on the inside would probably be the best option for guerrillas.
Although a turret missile might be able to penetrate a SDB hull, it could only do so at close range - which would mean engagement on or near the ground. To reach orbit, you'd need a rocket the size of an ICBM, even if the warhead was only turret missile size.
Of course, at much higher TLs, you could potentially have grav-powered missiles like an orbital range cruise missile or UAV. The size of the missile could be dramatically reduced if you're not using chemical rockets for lift. You might be able to launch one of those from the back of a Land Rover.
Like ICBMs, they might be a bit costly for guerrillas, though.
On the whole, I'd think bringing down active ortillery by direct combat will be beyond the ability of guerrillas.
As suggested by others, targeting the crew or supply logistics, or getting a man on the inside would probably be the best option for guerrillas.
Although a turret missile might be able to penetrate a SDB hull, it could only do so at close range - which would mean engagement on or near the ground. To reach orbit, you'd need a rocket the size of an ICBM, even if the warhead was only turret missile size.
Of course, at much higher TLs, you could potentially have grav-powered missiles like an orbital range cruise missile or UAV. The size of the missile could be dramatically reduced if you're not using chemical rockets for lift. You might be able to launch one of those from the back of a Land Rover.
Like ICBMs, they might be a bit costly for guerrillas, though.
On the whole, I'd think bringing down active ortillery by direct combat will be beyond the ability of guerrillas.
