Subsector Troopers

[GrayPennell]

I freely admit my idea is for game play more than canon. I just think it would be great to have the players on the run touched on some world thinking they are safe to find the patrol cruiser thats been chasing them them for weeks just landed and are looking for the PCs all known contacts. You can reverse this if you want the PCs. to be the "good guys" In this case they land go to local 5o check in pull all records of crimes find one that matches the MO of the NPCs and the chase is on.

You can have all the political squabbles talked about earlier too. Think about would happen if the NPCs were hired by a count to do a crime and the count is hiding them. How far can and will the PCs go to catch their man?

Could this be done with Navy characters maybe but why let the 400 ton Patrol Cruiser not do the job.

 

[rancke]

The two or more weeks for a crime lab to be shipped is two weeks for the evidence to be compromised by locals. And a lot of forensic evidence degrades simply from exposure.

It's the same two weeks the patrol ship would take to get there. Admittedly, the portable lab solution might take extra time to line up a freighter heading the right way. But balance that against the value of having a crime lab on site on the dozen or so most important worlds with permanent offices. And if you have several portable labs in known locations, you might easily be able to contact one of them faster than you would have been able to contact a single patrol ship somewhere in the subsector.

If it's worth having a crime lab, it's worth the local rangers having a lab in the barracks. Even if the barracks itself is only staffed with 1 man, having the lab asset in semi-skilled (Forensic 0) hands is better than not having the asset at all.

Right you are, but unless we know what a permanently staffed crime lab costs, we can't say for sure how many you can maintain with the same budget you'd need to maintain the one patrol ship.


Hans

 

[Garyius2003]

AFIS cut down on needing a dozen fingerprint folks to one. I assume TL14 crime labs will only need two or three guys, instead of 20.

 

[aramis]

Right you are, but unless we know what a permanently staffed crime lab costs, we can't say for sure how many you can maintain with the same budget you'd need to maintain the one patrol ship.


Hans

well, a 32 person lab, with its own building suitable for up to 40 technical staff, plus admin services, serving a population of about 700K (with a 3-12 hour response time, since it serves, effectively, the whole state of Alaska) is running $6.5M per year, and cost $95M to build and equip the 18,000sf building. That's about 450sf per person, or about 9Td per person, and $2.4M per person, with an op cost of $162K per person, with at least 1/3 of that being technician/forensic scientist salary. Note that ASDL runs about 1:2 scientist:tech from what I've heard... with a pay rate of $150K for the top FS, and $46K for the new hire tech. So, averaging, that's (40+40+150)/3=$76K per person for salary, and so ~$86K for supplies and building expenses.

Commercial space is has a general upkeep cost of about $1.6 per SF per month; Lets use just that.... that's 8.6K per year. Leaving supplies, travel, etc, to about 78K... let's figure half of that is travel (it's probably more - this is Alaska), so $34K in supplies.


So, using the Cr1=$5, the lab should be about MCr0.5, 8 Td, and pay KCr10 per annum for technicians (KCr0.8 per month) to KCr33 per year (KCr2.5/mo), and a supplies cost of roughly KCr7 per year. Plus the upkeep on the frame and lab. Assuming the lab is just a box hull, MCr0.6x8 plus the lab gear MCr0.5... Call it MCr 5, and upkeep won't exceed starship costs, so kCr50 per year to maintain it, in a ship-hull box...

Breaking that into clearer, and rounded, numbers:

Forensic Lab, 1 man: 8Td, MCr0.5, 1 crew. Probably 0.5MW (twice a stateroom's)
Forensic Specialist: KCr 0.8 to KCr2.5 per month. Nominally, KCr1/mo
Supplies for Lab: KCr0.55 per month.
Putting it in a hull shell of 8Td: MCr 4.8. Annual maintenance KCr53

 

[rancke]

Breaking that into clearer, and rounded, numbers:

Forensic Lab, 1 man: 8Td, MCr0.5, 1 crew. Probably 0.5MW (twice a stateroom's)
Forensic Specialist: KCr 0.8 to KCr2.5 per month. Nominally, KCr1/mo
Supplies for Lab: KCr0.55 per month.
Putting it in a hull shell of 8Td: MCr 4.8. Annual maintenance KCr53

So you should be able to buy four hundred laboratories for the price of one patrol ship. Maintenance and staffing may skew that number a bit, but you should still be able to maintain and staff an office and a lab on every world in a subsector (30-40 worlds) PLUS hire several dozen extra agents per world for the cost of running one patrol ship.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Yep, as in, delete one patrol ship, and have a minimum 3 man station on every possible world in the subsector. Adding staterooms adds MCr3.7 to the initial cost each...

And on most worlds, you can get by with less expensive materials than hullmetal enclosure.

Now, such a station, let's build it with high guard to be a 4 man station: 2 rangers, 1 engineer, 1 FS, with 1 extra stateroom for a brig, and a model 1. And a 1Td PP for independence,
Td_ MCr_ Item
_40 24.0 Hull, close structure.
__1 _2.0 Model 1
__8 _0.5 Forensic lab, 1 man
_20 _2.5 staterooms x5
__2 _6.0 TL13 PP 1EP
__8 _0.0 hangarage for 2x 4td air/rafts
__1 _0.0 fuel, 1 month.
=== ====== ====================
_40 35.0 Maint: KCr350
Op cost: KCr2.5/mo+ salaries - probably about KCr10 in total salaries, when parked near a source of water, methane, or ammonia for "skimming", and an extra cost for the scoops...

Call it KCr 15 per month for a trivial outpost barracks in hullmetal 40td instant bases... covering either a stable fuel supply or external power. Striker AV 40 (base unarmored hull)...

Its a fully self contained base.

 

[rancke]

So how big would subsector police organizations be? How many employees per how many people? And would they be distributed in proportion to the populations of the individual worlds?


Hans

 

[aramis]

I'd probably put it at a minimum 3 man per world, with larger worlds having 1 extra per million people. This puts the costs per man below Cr1 per person.

Note that typical rates (having looked at figures for several western nations and major cities) put average police presence at a nominal 1:1000, with a common range of 1:500 to 1:3000 policeopulation. In multiple layers of jurisdiction overall total tends to be higher, while individual layers tend to be lower rates.

I figure the rangers model should be policing the police on the major worlds, and the populace directly on the smallest ones...

One other thought: a forensic team on scene might just request a mobile lab support to analyze locally gathered stuff that an on-site lab gathers but cannot work through... there's still room for a mobile lab ship...

 

[GrayPennell]

I agree it is relatively cheap to run a building over a starship so lets dispand the navy and just build fortifications. Most planets can provide the food and water to survive a siege and those that can't should just give up. Who needs trillion credit squadrons. :devil:

 

[aramis]

I agree it is relatively cheap to run a building over a starship so lets dispand the navy and just build fortifications. Most planets can provide the food and water to survive a siege and those that can't should just give up. Who needs trillion credit squadrons. :devil:

Not the point. A forensic tech and lab needs to be on-world to be of practical use. Having it mobile-by-demand doesn't benefit much. Tho' it's pretty well doable to add one to the patrol craft as an addition.

Putting a couple rangers on station provides a basic point of contact. A stable locus for the wandering rangers to coordinate with, and for local police to put requests into.

Unless your ATU has FTL comm faster than jump, the reach of a lawman is limited severely. If you have to bring him in after the fact, then you've just lost 2+ weeks, possibly up to 8 weeks, on just a subsector level ...

 

[Carlobrand]

I'd probably put it at a minimum 3 man per world, with larger worlds having 1 extra per million people. This puts the costs per man below Cr1 per person.

Note that typical rates (having looked at figures for several western nations and major cities) put average police presence at a nominal 1:1000, with a common range of 1:500 to 1:3000 policeopulation. In multiple layers of jurisdiction overall total tends to be higher, while individual layers tend to be lower rates.

I figure the rangers model should be policing the police on the major worlds, and the populace directly on the smallest ones...

One other thought: a forensic team on scene might just request a mobile lab support to analyze locally gathered stuff that an on-site lab gathers but cannot work through... there's still room for a mobile lab ship...

Problem: Imperial jurisdiction consists of space and the starports; it does not extend past the extrality line of any given starport on any given world, except possibly with regard to a narrow range of offenses (use of psionics comes to mind). The Imperium has little more authority to "police the police" than the modern U.N. has.

If there is a ranger model, it has to function more like Interpol - with certain notable exceptions, it can only function with the consent of the local government and in support of the local police. It would be a valuable assist on a low pop or low tech world, but it would be an assist - the local sheriff still calls the shots unless someone's accusing the local constabulary of use of psionics or treason against the Imperium or some such charge.

 

[rancke]

Problem: Imperial jurisdiction consists of space and the starports; it does not extend past the extrality line of any given starport on any given world, except possibly with regard to a narrow range of offenses (use of psionics comes to mind). The Imperium has little more authority to "police the police" than the modern U.N. has.

I touched on that in a previous post: "...membership treaties probably allow Imperial law enforcers to investigate Imperial crimes, possibly with some restrictions that could vary from member world to member world. They almost certainly can't step in and investigate local crimes unless asked to do so by the local law."

If there is a ranger model, it has to function more like Interpol - with certain notable exceptions, it can only function with the consent of the local government and in support of the local police. It would be a valuable assist on a low pop or low tech world, but it would be an assist - the local sheriff still calls the shots unless someone's accusing the local constabulary of use of psionics or treason against the Imperium or some such charge.

In the early days U.S. Marshals couldn't investigate local crimes without being invited to do so by the county sheriff. So that sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

My own assumption is that Ministry of Justice agents perform at both sector and subsector levels, but that individual dukes can form their own law enforcement organizations too, if they feel the need. Such organizations can vary from duchy to duchy.


Hans