Stephon as the Kennedy of his Generation
- Thread starter kafka47
- Start date
But, it terms of the RC living out Dulinor's reforms, I also partially agree. You see, a certain meddlesome journalist and historian give Dulinor a very bad rap in the New Era. Therefore, what might have been Dulinor's reforms suddenly become Stephon's. The man is effectively deityfied in the eyes of the RC, as much as any Noble could be in the eyes of the RC. Similarly, through the work of the Brothers of Varan and possibly Craig, this belovenant image keeps getting reproduced. Only when they come into contact with the Regency do they begin to realize that their initial gut feelings were correct.
But, it terms of the RC living out Dulinor's reforms, I also partially agree. You see, a certain meddlesome journalist and historian give Dulinor a very bad rap in the New Era. Therefore, what might have been Dulinor's reforms suddenly become Stephon's. The man is effectively deityfied in the eyes of the RC, as much as any Noble could be in the eyes of the RC. Similarly, through the work of the Brothers of Varan and possibly Craig, this belovenant image keeps getting reproduced. Only when they come into contact with the Regency do they begin to realize that their initial gut feelings were correct.
But, it terms of the RC living out Dulinor's reforms, I also partially agree. You see, a certain meddlesome journalist and historian give Dulinor a very bad rap in the New Era. Therefore, what might have been Dulinor's reforms suddenly become Stephon's. The man is effectively deityfied in the eyes of the RC, as much as any Noble could be in the eyes of the RC. Similarly, through the work of the Brothers of Varan and possibly Craig, this belovenant image keeps getting reproduced. Only when they come into contact with the Regency do they begin to realize that their initial gut feelings were correct.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
I found the comparison of Dulinor's former mouthpiece/ Intelligence chief in RC (That Ilelik Kuligaan hooligan)in My-Tne-U a rather ironic & hypocritical figure. Especially when we drew upon the fact that in the long-run the embracing of Psionics by the Imperial Regency States (or IRS no pun intended!) vs the AI-Virus embracing RC came to see each other.
I used an Imperial relic NPC from my MT Campaign from Daibei (Duke Craig's former domain) to counter balance the "sacred cow" Mr. Kuligaan became, to avoid the nascent demagoguery he represented and fomented. It became an unusual counterpoint, I must say, when after the Droyne massacre on Daaliisa became public, and later the RC bends over backwards to ensure good alien-relations elsewhere in their "AO".
Strange how the Norris "Democratic Reforms" in the Imperial Regency come about as a different road to the same goal.
Speaking of analogies...& current RW-RL backdrops, the eventual casting out of the "Star Vikings" & their pre-emptive measures harkens to current trends of historical revisionism & 20/20 hindsighters.
Without drawing this off to a political board topic, (I abstain from the entire board, happily thank you!) I saw no difference in the "only good AI-Virus is a dead one" from the Regency's POV expanding into the Wilds, and the pre-emptive policies of the RCES "Star Vikings" vs TEDs, save the fact one foe was organic like themselves, and the other a sentient silicon.
Norris' democratic reforms maybe drawn from Strephon & Dulinor's ideas both--only he lived to implement them, and had a smaller piece of the former 3rd Imperium to set them upon, as well as the benfit of the crises of Virus knocking on civilization's doorstep. The 3rd Imperium as it was before the rebellion was too large to see them through in Strephon's lifetime.
To be fair to daryen's POV, which I respect, may I point out that GDW's TNE, Path of Tears, etc, was written well before the current GWB Presidential era, and leave it at that.
Kafka47--interesting topic as always! Gentlemen, a pleasure as always!
I used an Imperial relic NPC from my MT Campaign from Daibei (Duke Craig's former domain) to counter balance the "sacred cow" Mr. Kuligaan became, to avoid the nascent demagoguery he represented and fomented. It became an unusual counterpoint, I must say, when after the Droyne massacre on Daaliisa became public, and later the RC bends over backwards to ensure good alien-relations elsewhere in their "AO".
Strange how the Norris "Democratic Reforms" in the Imperial Regency come about as a different road to the same goal.
Speaking of analogies...& current RW-RL backdrops, the eventual casting out of the "Star Vikings" & their pre-emptive measures harkens to current trends of historical revisionism & 20/20 hindsighters.
Without drawing this off to a political board topic, (I abstain from the entire board, happily thank you!) I saw no difference in the "only good AI-Virus is a dead one" from the Regency's POV expanding into the Wilds, and the pre-emptive policies of the RCES "Star Vikings" vs TEDs, save the fact one foe was organic like themselves, and the other a sentient silicon.
Norris' democratic reforms maybe drawn from Strephon & Dulinor's ideas both--only he lived to implement them, and had a smaller piece of the former 3rd Imperium to set them upon, as well as the benfit of the crises of Virus knocking on civilization's doorstep. The 3rd Imperium as it was before the rebellion was too large to see them through in Strephon's lifetime.
To be fair to daryen's POV, which I respect, may I point out that GDW's TNE, Path of Tears, etc, was written well before the current GWB Presidential era, and leave it at that.
Kafka47--interesting topic as always! Gentlemen, a pleasure as always!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
I found the comparison of Dulinor's former mouthpiece/ Intelligence chief in RC (That Ilelik Kuligaan hooligan)in My-Tne-U a rather ironic & hypocritical figure. Especially when we drew upon the fact that in the long-run the embracing of Psionics by the Imperial Regency States (or IRS no pun intended!) vs the AI-Virus embracing RC came to see each other.
I used an Imperial relic NPC from my MT Campaign from Daibei (Duke Craig's former domain) to counter balance the "sacred cow" Mr. Kuligaan became, to avoid the nascent demagoguery he represented and fomented. It became an unusual counterpoint, I must say, when after the Droyne massacre on Daaliisa became public, and later the RC bends over backwards to ensure good alien-relations elsewhere in their "AO".
Strange how the Norris "Democratic Reforms" in the Imperial Regency come about as a different road to the same goal.
Speaking of analogies...& current RW-RL backdrops, the eventual casting out of the "Star Vikings" & their pre-emptive measures harkens to current trends of historical revisionism & 20/20 hindsighters.
Without drawing this off to a political board topic, (I abstain from the entire board, happily thank you!) I saw no difference in the "only good AI-Virus is a dead one" from the Regency's POV expanding into the Wilds, and the pre-emptive policies of the RCES "Star Vikings" vs TEDs, save the fact one foe was organic like themselves, and the other a sentient silicon.
Norris' democratic reforms maybe drawn from Strephon & Dulinor's ideas both--only he lived to implement them, and had a smaller piece of the former 3rd Imperium to set them upon, as well as the benfit of the crises of Virus knocking on civilization's doorstep. The 3rd Imperium as it was before the rebellion was too large to see them through in Strephon's lifetime.
To be fair to daryen's POV, which I respect, may I point out that GDW's TNE, Path of Tears, etc, was written well before the current GWB Presidential era, and leave it at that.
Kafka47--interesting topic as always! Gentlemen, a pleasure as always!
I used an Imperial relic NPC from my MT Campaign from Daibei (Duke Craig's former domain) to counter balance the "sacred cow" Mr. Kuligaan became, to avoid the nascent demagoguery he represented and fomented. It became an unusual counterpoint, I must say, when after the Droyne massacre on Daaliisa became public, and later the RC bends over backwards to ensure good alien-relations elsewhere in their "AO".
Strange how the Norris "Democratic Reforms" in the Imperial Regency come about as a different road to the same goal.
Speaking of analogies...& current RW-RL backdrops, the eventual casting out of the "Star Vikings" & their pre-emptive measures harkens to current trends of historical revisionism & 20/20 hindsighters.
Without drawing this off to a political board topic, (I abstain from the entire board, happily thank you!) I saw no difference in the "only good AI-Virus is a dead one" from the Regency's POV expanding into the Wilds, and the pre-emptive policies of the RCES "Star Vikings" vs TEDs, save the fact one foe was organic like themselves, and the other a sentient silicon.
Norris' democratic reforms maybe drawn from Strephon & Dulinor's ideas both--only he lived to implement them, and had a smaller piece of the former 3rd Imperium to set them upon, as well as the benfit of the crises of Virus knocking on civilization's doorstep. The 3rd Imperium as it was before the rebellion was too large to see them through in Strephon's lifetime.
To be fair to daryen's POV, which I respect, may I point out that GDW's TNE, Path of Tears, etc, was written well before the current GWB Presidential era, and leave it at that.
Kafka47--interesting topic as always! Gentlemen, a pleasure as always!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
I found the comparison of Dulinor's former mouthpiece/ Intelligence chief in RC (That Ilelik Kuligaan hooligan)in My-Tne-U a rather ironic & hypocritical figure. Especially when we drew upon the fact that in the long-run the embracing of Psionics by the Imperial Regency States (or IRS no pun intended!) vs the AI-Virus embracing RC came to see each other.
I used an Imperial relic NPC from my MT Campaign from Daibei (Duke Craig's former domain) to counter balance the "sacred cow" Mr. Kuligaan became, to avoid the nascent demagoguery he represented and fomented. It became an unusual counterpoint, I must say, when after the Droyne massacre on Daaliisa became public, and later the RC bends over backwards to ensure good alien-relations elsewhere in their "AO".
Strange how the Norris "Democratic Reforms" in the Imperial Regency come about as a different road to the same goal.
Speaking of analogies...& current RW-RL backdrops, the eventual casting out of the "Star Vikings" & their pre-emptive measures harkens to current trends of historical revisionism & 20/20 hindsighters.
Without drawing this off to a political board topic, (I abstain from the entire board, happily thank you!) I saw no difference in the "only good AI-Virus is a dead one" from the Regency's POV expanding into the Wilds, and the pre-emptive policies of the RCES "Star Vikings" vs TEDs, save the fact one foe was organic like themselves, and the other a sentient silicon.
Norris' democratic reforms maybe drawn from Strephon & Dulinor's ideas both--only he lived to implement them, and had a smaller piece of the former 3rd Imperium to set them upon, as well as the benfit of the crises of Virus knocking on civilization's doorstep. The 3rd Imperium as it was before the rebellion was too large to see them through in Strephon's lifetime.
To be fair to daryen's POV, which I respect, may I point out that GDW's TNE, Path of Tears, etc, was written well before the current GWB Presidential era, and leave it at that.
Kafka47--interesting topic as always! Gentlemen, a pleasure as always!
I used an Imperial relic NPC from my MT Campaign from Daibei (Duke Craig's former domain) to counter balance the "sacred cow" Mr. Kuligaan became, to avoid the nascent demagoguery he represented and fomented. It became an unusual counterpoint, I must say, when after the Droyne massacre on Daaliisa became public, and later the RC bends over backwards to ensure good alien-relations elsewhere in their "AO".
Strange how the Norris "Democratic Reforms" in the Imperial Regency come about as a different road to the same goal.
Speaking of analogies...& current RW-RL backdrops, the eventual casting out of the "Star Vikings" & their pre-emptive measures harkens to current trends of historical revisionism & 20/20 hindsighters.
Without drawing this off to a political board topic, (I abstain from the entire board, happily thank you!) I saw no difference in the "only good AI-Virus is a dead one" from the Regency's POV expanding into the Wilds, and the pre-emptive policies of the RCES "Star Vikings" vs TEDs, save the fact one foe was organic like themselves, and the other a sentient silicon.
Norris' democratic reforms maybe drawn from Strephon & Dulinor's ideas both--only he lived to implement them, and had a smaller piece of the former 3rd Imperium to set them upon, as well as the benfit of the crises of Virus knocking on civilization's doorstep. The 3rd Imperium as it was before the rebellion was too large to see them through in Strephon's lifetime.
To be fair to daryen's POV, which I respect, may I point out that GDW's TNE, Path of Tears, etc, was written well before the current GWB Presidential era, and leave it at that.
Kafka47--interesting topic as always! Gentlemen, a pleasure as always!
epicenter00
SOC-13
That's pretty interesting tangent, Kafka47.
I've always seen Strephon as more of a Gorbachev type figure. Both are very much apparatchniks. Strephon is associated with a number of ideals, but neither "young", "charismatic", or "idealistic" has ever been associated with Strephon. He was more trying to inject new life into a dying (or dead) system. Usually terms like "austere" or "distant" are associated with Strephon.
If you look at Strephon's various speeches written by various Traveller authors (LKW in particular), Strephon always comes across as pretty droning, formal, and stiff. Regardless of if you liked (like?) Kennedy or not, everyone agrees the guy had charisma and his speechwriters and himself always had pretty catchy slogans and such.
I've always seen Strephon as more of a Gorbachev type figure. Both are very much apparatchniks. Strephon is associated with a number of ideals, but neither "young", "charismatic", or "idealistic" has ever been associated with Strephon. He was more trying to inject new life into a dying (or dead) system. Usually terms like "austere" or "distant" are associated with Strephon.
If you look at Strephon's various speeches written by various Traveller authors (LKW in particular), Strephon always comes across as pretty droning, formal, and stiff. Regardless of if you liked (like?) Kennedy or not, everyone agrees the guy had charisma and his speechwriters and himself always had pretty catchy slogans and such.
epicenter00
SOC-13
That's pretty interesting tangent, Kafka47.
I've always seen Strephon as more of a Gorbachev type figure. Both are very much apparatchniks. Strephon is associated with a number of ideals, but neither "young", "charismatic", or "idealistic" has ever been associated with Strephon. He was more trying to inject new life into a dying (or dead) system. Usually terms like "austere" or "distant" are associated with Strephon.
If you look at Strephon's various speeches written by various Traveller authors (LKW in particular), Strephon always comes across as pretty droning, formal, and stiff. Regardless of if you liked (like?) Kennedy or not, everyone agrees the guy had charisma and his speechwriters and himself always had pretty catchy slogans and such.
I've always seen Strephon as more of a Gorbachev type figure. Both are very much apparatchniks. Strephon is associated with a number of ideals, but neither "young", "charismatic", or "idealistic" has ever been associated with Strephon. He was more trying to inject new life into a dying (or dead) system. Usually terms like "austere" or "distant" are associated with Strephon.
If you look at Strephon's various speeches written by various Traveller authors (LKW in particular), Strephon always comes across as pretty droning, formal, and stiff. Regardless of if you liked (like?) Kennedy or not, everyone agrees the guy had charisma and his speechwriters and himself always had pretty catchy slogans and such.
epicenter00
SOC-13
That's pretty interesting tangent, Kafka47.
I've always seen Strephon as more of a Gorbachev type figure. Both are very much apparatchniks. Strephon is associated with a number of ideals, but neither "young", "charismatic", or "idealistic" has ever been associated with Strephon. He was more trying to inject new life into a dying (or dead) system. Usually terms like "austere" or "distant" are associated with Strephon.
If you look at Strephon's various speeches written by various Traveller authors (LKW in particular), Strephon always comes across as pretty droning, formal, and stiff. Regardless of if you liked (like?) Kennedy or not, everyone agrees the guy had charisma and his speechwriters and himself always had pretty catchy slogans and such.
I've always seen Strephon as more of a Gorbachev type figure. Both are very much apparatchniks. Strephon is associated with a number of ideals, but neither "young", "charismatic", or "idealistic" has ever been associated with Strephon. He was more trying to inject new life into a dying (or dead) system. Usually terms like "austere" or "distant" are associated with Strephon.
If you look at Strephon's various speeches written by various Traveller authors (LKW in particular), Strephon always comes across as pretty droning, formal, and stiff. Regardless of if you liked (like?) Kennedy or not, everyone agrees the guy had charisma and his speechwriters and himself always had pretty catchy slogans and such.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Strephon as Kennedy. So will he:
+ Make his younger sister Minister of Justice(1) and she will get in a fight with the head of Imperial Intelligence?
+ Use some expatriat Sword Worlders (from the 5th War conquests) to attack the remaining Sword-Worlds and have it fail misserably
+ Get into a "Suntrigger race" with the Zhodanie
+ Hold a speach on Terra that ends with "Ich bin ein Terraner!"
+ Threaten total war against the Hierat when the Aslan station some heavy warships on an Ithahei(sp) enclave near the Spinward Marches
+ Has robots marching on capital that demand equal rights for all sentients?
(1) IIRC he has no brother
+ Make his younger sister Minister of Justice(1) and she will get in a fight with the head of Imperial Intelligence?
+ Use some expatriat Sword Worlders (from the 5th War conquests) to attack the remaining Sword-Worlds and have it fail misserably
+ Get into a "Suntrigger race" with the Zhodanie
+ Hold a speach on Terra that ends with "Ich bin ein Terraner!"
+ Threaten total war against the Hierat when the Aslan station some heavy warships on an Ithahei(sp) enclave near the Spinward Marches
+ Has robots marching on capital that demand equal rights for all sentients?
(1) IIRC he has no brother
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Strephon as Kennedy. So will he:
+ Make his younger sister Minister of Justice(1) and she will get in a fight with the head of Imperial Intelligence?
+ Use some expatriat Sword Worlders (from the 5th War conquests) to attack the remaining Sword-Worlds and have it fail misserably
+ Get into a "Suntrigger race" with the Zhodanie
+ Hold a speach on Terra that ends with "Ich bin ein Terraner!"
+ Threaten total war against the Hierat when the Aslan station some heavy warships on an Ithahei(sp) enclave near the Spinward Marches
+ Has robots marching on capital that demand equal rights for all sentients?
(1) IIRC he has no brother
+ Make his younger sister Minister of Justice(1) and she will get in a fight with the head of Imperial Intelligence?
+ Use some expatriat Sword Worlders (from the 5th War conquests) to attack the remaining Sword-Worlds and have it fail misserably
+ Get into a "Suntrigger race" with the Zhodanie
+ Hold a speach on Terra that ends with "Ich bin ein Terraner!"
+ Threaten total war against the Hierat when the Aslan station some heavy warships on an Ithahei(sp) enclave near the Spinward Marches
+ Has robots marching on capital that demand equal rights for all sentients?
(1) IIRC he has no brother
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Strephon as Kennedy. So will he:
+ Make his younger sister Minister of Justice(1) and she will get in a fight with the head of Imperial Intelligence?
+ Use some expatriat Sword Worlders (from the 5th War conquests) to attack the remaining Sword-Worlds and have it fail misserably
+ Get into a "Suntrigger race" with the Zhodanie
+ Hold a speach on Terra that ends with "Ich bin ein Terraner!"
+ Threaten total war against the Hierat when the Aslan station some heavy warships on an Ithahei(sp) enclave near the Spinward Marches
+ Has robots marching on capital that demand equal rights for all sentients?
(1) IIRC he has no brother
+ Make his younger sister Minister of Justice(1) and she will get in a fight with the head of Imperial Intelligence?
+ Use some expatriat Sword Worlders (from the 5th War conquests) to attack the remaining Sword-Worlds and have it fail misserably
+ Get into a "Suntrigger race" with the Zhodanie
+ Hold a speach on Terra that ends with "Ich bin ein Terraner!"
+ Threaten total war against the Hierat when the Aslan station some heavy warships on an Ithahei(sp) enclave near the Spinward Marches
+ Has robots marching on capital that demand equal rights for all sentients?
(1) IIRC he has no brother
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Oh I fully understand that GDW wrote TNE around the time GWB was busy being the figurehead of a baseball team.
In neither of my points and I assigning cause or effect. I am simply pointing out how well the coincidental linkages between GWB and the RC work. Nothing done intentionally, just a potentially ironic coincidence.
Actually, I think the accidental linkage works pretty well. The opinions of the RC, and how they operate, mirrors pretty nicely the reactions you can get toward GWB's methods. Again, no cause or effect, just an interesting (to me, anyway) parallel.
Likewise I am in no way saying (or implying) that there is any intentional linkage between Dulinor and the RC. The RC obviously despised Dulinor for (effectively) destroying the Imperium and causing the deaths of trillions of people. However, despite how much the RC likely hated Dulinor, I think it is ironic that out of all the Rebellion contenders, the RC's philosophy most closely resembled that of Dulinor.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Oh I fully understand that GDW wrote TNE around the time GWB was busy being the figurehead of a baseball team.
In neither of my points and I assigning cause or effect. I am simply pointing out how well the coincidental linkages between GWB and the RC work. Nothing done intentionally, just a potentially ironic coincidence.
Actually, I think the accidental linkage works pretty well. The opinions of the RC, and how they operate, mirrors pretty nicely the reactions you can get toward GWB's methods. Again, no cause or effect, just an interesting (to me, anyway) parallel.
Likewise I am in no way saying (or implying) that there is any intentional linkage between Dulinor and the RC. The RC obviously despised Dulinor for (effectively) destroying the Imperium and causing the deaths of trillions of people. However, despite how much the RC likely hated Dulinor, I think it is ironic that out of all the Rebellion contenders, the RC's philosophy most closely resembled that of Dulinor.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Oh I fully understand that GDW wrote TNE around the time GWB was busy being the figurehead of a baseball team.
In neither of my points and I assigning cause or effect. I am simply pointing out how well the coincidental linkages between GWB and the RC work. Nothing done intentionally, just a potentially ironic coincidence.
Actually, I think the accidental linkage works pretty well. The opinions of the RC, and how they operate, mirrors pretty nicely the reactions you can get toward GWB's methods. Again, no cause or effect, just an interesting (to me, anyway) parallel.
Likewise I am in no way saying (or implying) that there is any intentional linkage between Dulinor and the RC. The RC obviously despised Dulinor for (effectively) destroying the Imperium and causing the deaths of trillions of people. However, despite how much the RC likely hated Dulinor, I think it is ironic that out of all the Rebellion contenders, the RC's philosophy most closely resembled that of Dulinor.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Daryen--Ironic, yes, especially after the RC decides that the bloodier past of the 'Star Viking' era needs an apologetic injection of historical/ political revisionism, ala Dulinor's diary, apologizing in the end--after he's already had Tredek Jurisor's death (prior to Coronation flet sailing)for "atonement".
Fascinating the parallels there...
Fascinating the parallels there...
