Starship Geek Poll: There's No Such Thing as a Safari Ship?

[Spinward Flow]

So basically a yacht configured for wilderness landings?

Technically speaking, the safari ship/yacht never needs to enter atmosphere for any reason ... those tasks can be "outsourced" to small craft and vehicles. In fact, I would even argue that a safari ship/yacht that keeps the "jump tender" in orbit in order to minimize the ... dirtside footprint ... of an expedition would be desirable.

Wilderness landings are definitely a "nice to have" feature so the ship can be "parked" somewhere other than in orbit. But in terms of "getting big game hunters to the sporting fields" on a world, a streamlined hull is not a necessity feature for a safari ship/yacht. Nice to have, enables some alternative wilderness refueling options, but not a mandatory "don't/can't leave home without it" feature by any means.

At best, properly used a safari ship/yacht is basically a glorified Tender or Transport ... except instead of going to a starport and making calls to buy a speculative cargo, a team of hunters fan out to bag a big game trophy to bring back. Like @McPerth has been saying, the safari mission is to exit the ship and go do stuff meaning that the ship itself is largely irrelevant to the big game hunt or whatever (except as a means of transportation, storing "loot" from the hunt and putting prizes taken on display). It's not about THE SHIP ... it's about what the people do OUTSIDE the ship. The ship is a background logistical element that gets the hunters "most of the way there" to their destination, but the "last kilometers" are best dealt with using either small craft and/or vehicles for the hunt itself, or failing that, dismounted infantry maneuvers (and keep the map away from the butter bars).

I mean, nobody is going to be using a Laser Turret to go hunting Groats on Fulacin (for one thing, you'd vaporize them at the power output of starship laser turrets, leaving nothing useful to recover). Laser Rifle sure ... but Laser Turret, not so much. Besides, using a starship's laser turret(s) would hardly be ... sporting ... what with all the fire control assistance a ship's laser turret has built into it.

If you're hunting for trophies, you're unlikely to be using nuclear hand grenades to obtain them.
TDX explosive traps ... maybe ... but not nuclear weapons (even if you do have nuclear dampeners to "clean up the radiation mess" afterwards).

 

[robject]

Technically speaking, the safari ship/yacht never needs to enter atmosphere for any reason

That's true, but typically the Safari Ship is capable of wilderness landing -- even on water -- with agility and stability.

So safari ships which only orbit surely exist, but they're not common.

 

[aramis]

That's true, but typically the Safari Ship is capable of wilderness landing -- even on water -- with agility and stability.

So safari ships which only orbit surely exist, but they're not common.

More importantly, direct views

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Minimum the capture tanks and landing capability. I would not call them Safari ships. More likely Animal Capture, Control and Transit in legal terms. The function is to take non-sophonts thru space from one place to another. Trawling for space shrimp. Herding cattle to another planet after a 'shindig . Those huge multi-horse hangers. I think the common "safari ship" is no such thing. This would be a subset of Yacht classification. Like Seeker miner ships are a subset of Scouts

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Then why is it the "standard" and therefore cheaper to build (in-universe)?

It's not only cheaper, but also faster to build. The larger standard hulls are not cheaper, only faster.

This points to mass-production of small hulls in advance. When a shipyard gets an order for a Scout, they don't start looking for sheet metal, they roll a preassembly 100 Dt hull out of storage, order mass-produced standard drives, and start fitting components...

 

[Condottiere]

I doubt that alphabet hulls and/or engines are irrelevant, but probably don't exist ingame as presented in the rules.

 

[McPerth]

As an aside, and just as a curiosity:

Hunter is the only career where you can obtain a ship as a benefit, but no ship skills (Pilot, Navigation or Engineering) on its tables (scientists are close to it, but they can obtain navigation in CT:S4 and Engineering, as part of Space tech cascade, in MT)...

 

[McPerth]

The "official" designs are just a random bunch of ships. There is no implication that these are the only ships, or the most common ships. There are presumably lots of other designs...

I agree here. My policy IMTU has always been "there are trillions people and tousends (or milions) of ships in the Imperium. If you see the need of a design, surely soemone in the Imperium has already built it" (as an aside, this also applies to vehicles, etc.).

Another matter is if this specific design your players design would be a Standard one (common enough to merit the discounts in time and price) or a custoum one... I have no hard rules on this, just according my view of how many of them would be needed 8so, how high demand would be)...

And IMHO, not enough for hunting expeditions to merit a class, as they are useless for the hunting itself, though some customized ones are more than possible, be them based on other hulls or fully custom built.

Of course, again, YMMV...

 

[Spinward Flow]

More importantly, direct views

Direct views can be obtained from small craft and/or vehicles.
You don't need a starship (with a jump drive installed) in order to be able to access or see them.

There isn't anything intrinsic to a starship which makes direct views available to the starship (only), but not to other craft.



Well ... aside from jump space, I suppose ... but nobody is going on a package tour in a specialty starship to look at THAT ...

 

[robject]

Minimum the capture tanks and landing capability. I would not call them Safari ships. More likely Animal Capture, Control and Transit in legal terms.

"Sharikkamur Smith, Interstellar Dog Catcher"

 

[Grav_Moped]

"Sharikkamur Smith, Interstellar Dog Catcher"

"Bounty, the Dog Hunter"

 

[whulorigan]

"Sharikkamur Smith, Interstellar Dog Catcher"

Known widely in the Extents as a "Corsair-Hunter".

(Which, BTW, is the original meaning of the term "Yacht" (from Dutch "Jacht" = "Hunter")).

 

[Condottiere]

I think frigate has a Dutch origin, as well.

 

[whulorigan]

I think frigate has a Dutch origin, as well.

Wikipedia "Frigate" (Origins): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigate#Origins

 

[Spinward Flow]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigate#Role

Frigates were perhaps the hardest-worked of warship types during the Age of Sail. While smaller than a ship-of-the-line, they were formidable opponents[…]. Able to carry six months' stores, they had very long range; and vessels larger than frigates were considered too valuable to operate independently.

Frigates scouted for the fleet, went on commerce-raiding missions and patrols, and conveyed messages and dignitaries. Usually, frigates would fight in small numbers or singly against other frigates.

frigates were kept in service in peacetime as a cost-saving measure and to provide experience to frigate captains and officers which would be useful in wartime. Frigates could also carry marines for boarding enemy ships or for operations on shore

Pulling snippets from that Age of Sail role description for consideration:

• Hardest-worked type
• Six months stores capacity = very long range
• NOT too valuable to operate independently
• Scouting for the fleet
• Commerce raiding and patrols
• Courier of messages and dignitaries
• Fight in small numbers or singly
• Could carry marines for boarding ships or infantry operations

Some of those attributes will also apply to Destroyers and Escorts, but not in quite the same way that the combination "works" for the Frigate mission role.

 

[McPerth]

ulling snippets from that Age of Sail role description for consideration:

• Hardest-worked type
• Six months stores capacity = very long range
• NOT too valuable to operate independently
• Scouting for the fleet
• Commerce raiding and patrols
• Courier of messages and dignitaries
• Fight in small numbers or singly
• Could carry marines for boarding ships or infantry operations

Some of those attributes will also apply to Destroyers and Escorts, but not in quite the same way that the combination "works" for the Frigate mission role.

All of this seems more a cruiser role (at least on the Dreadnought era) IMHO...

 

[Condottiere]

Missions tend to be the same, the capabilities of warship types tend to increase.

Limitations tend to be peacetime operating costs, dockyard capacity, industrial base, and skilled labour (including sailors).

If you think about it, exactly where do the Azhantis fit in?

 

[kilemall]

Missions tend to be the same, the capabilities of warship types tend to increase.

Limitations tend to be peacetime operating costs, dockyard capacity, industrial base, and skilled labour (including sailors).

If you think about it, exactly where do the Azhantis fit in?

Space control cruisers able to lead CruDivs with associated escort squadrons on independent missions or as support in major fleet battles.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Squadrons need homogenous performance; acceleration factor five at technological level fourteen more likely, factor six for technological level six.

2. I guess it depends on the rules set, but light fighters have limited range weaponry and seem fragile compared to heavy ones.

3. System [sea] control ship concept seems Solomani only so far, and I think with jump factor two, since you just park it somewhere.

4. I'm a little sceptical it really can support the line of battle.

5. If it's meant to be a (commerce) raider, too conspicuous, and over invested, and easily caught by something that can take it out.

6. Presumably reconnaissance in force, but then you might end up having to fight your way to, into and from the gas station.

 

[aramis]

Direct views can be obtained from small craft and/or vehicles.
You don't need a starship (with a jump drive installed) in order to be able to access or see them.

There isn't anything intrinsic to a starship which makes direct views available to the starship (only), but not to other craft.



Well ... aside from jump space, I suppose ... but nobody is going on a package tour in a specialty starship to look at THAT ...

It's intrinsic to the canonical safari ships that they have great direct views, and atmospheric capability.

Small craft don't fill the role, because they're not fitted with the luxuries, and as expendables, shouldn't.

Safari Ships as a subset of Yachts I can see, but they're as specialized as the Type J Seeker...

the key factors, for me, in defining a safari ship:
1) It's a lander itself
2) Direct but well protected views (at a level small craft can, but probably don't, meet).
3) Capture tanks
4) luxury quarters for non-crew

Things missing from canon designs that I think should be present:
5) ground anti-critter defense
6) Expandable sections (like many motor homes have) to increase space aboard while grounded

When we consider that some of the bigger life forms run to >50 tonnes (mass) those still present a major risk to a grounded small craft. A grounded > 200 Td ship is between 200 and 2000 tonnes (mass), and far less vulnerable to big critters. Further, some of the extreme environments, (Wypoc, Yebab, several other tainted and/or corrosive/insidious worlds) where logically, a small craft should be less protection.

I'm a "The game rules are a poor simulation, and will apply real world logic upon them at times" kind of GM; I consider each ruleset a separate TU, all close variants of the "Official Universe" - especially given Marc's explanation ... paraphrased, each game rules edition/subedition is a different historian's view of the history of the OTU from some later milieu. Likewise I consider each other GM's TU different from my own, save one... Cryton's, back when both of us were using MT... our TUs were at the shared setting level, including NPCs across both.

There are dedicated safari craft in the real world - they focus on client safety and great views... the OTU ships should do likewise.