Spinward Marches comparison

[mike wightman]

I have a theory.

The people that wrote The Spinward Marches Campaign introduced errors into the Spinward Marches UPPs

In this thread I intend to go through the Spinward Marches, subsector by subsector, trying to find all the errors that have crept into later versions (I've noted that even the TNE Regency soucebook maintains at least one of these errors).

My assumption is that Supplement 3 is the most accurate source for second survey era world data, since it was used for the CT adventures, including The Traveller Adventure.

Please don't reply to this thread if all you want to do is flame.

 

[mike wightman]

Cronor Subsector

Reno 0102, C1227B9-A becomes C1207B9-A

Cronor 0304, A636934-D becomes A6369A5-D

The change in Cronor's government and law level may be intentional to make the UPP match the world generation system.

Querion subsector

Terra Nova 0511, C786342-A becomes C786342-9

 

[daryen]

Sigg,

Personally, I advocate going in the opposite direction. I assume the errors are in Supplement 3, and are corrected from there. I still strongly suggest that MTJ#3 and Regency Sourcebook be used as the baseline.

Regardless, good luck and have fun with your effort.

As an aside, I have given serious thought to assuming the four-color 11x17 map of the Spinward Marches is correct and going from there. That would shake some things up even more.

 

[Pickles]

Which came first, Supplement 3 or the Introductory Adventure (from the deluxe boxed set)?

 

[mike wightman]

Daryen, the trouble is that I "know" there is at least one serious error in the Aramis subsector that was introduced into canon via the SMC - look up the stats for Pavanne in S3, TTA, and the Imperial Fringe (or Behind the Claw for that matter).
It is listed as E210000-0, then the SMC changes it to C669452-A, which it remains in MT and RSB.

Trouble is that the world Violante also has the stats C669452-A, in all editions of the game.

I suspect a transcription error that wasn't spotted, and it was repeated in MT and then RSB.

Plus we have a description of the world Pavanne in TTA and BTC that both match the original UPP rather than the "revised" one.

So I just wondered how many other errors have crept in which haven't been questioned - or have been papered over with the cry "the later edition must be correct"

Some of the changes made to the Spinward Marches may have been deliberate - fixing the odd characteristic to match the world design rules, raising the TL of Regina (although I now doubt that one since MWM was happy for Regina to be TL10 in the Secret of the Ancients adventure) - but I think there are genuine errors.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Bromgrev:
Which came first, Supplement 3 or the Introductory Adventure (from the deluxe boxed set)?

Supplement 3 came first, then the introductory adventure The Imperial Fringe.

I'll check that adventure thoroughly once I've compared these two - but at first glance it matches S3.

 

[daryen]

Sigg,

In my reconstruction of the Spinward Marches, I did not blindly follow the RSB, and allowed for the use of older information if it seemed better (or even looked better). But, it was still my baseline.

And do note that the RSB has plenty of internal errors. For example, the Entropic worlds are shown as SW in the UWP listings, but the text and all other sources show they should be Da instead. My personal favorite is the world that has differing stellar data between its 1117 and 1202 listings. I found at least a dozen such issues in my reconstruction (ignoring the changes to the stellar data).

However, I am pretty sure many of the changes in SMC were intentional retcons. For example, the Regina TL of A makes perfect sense in the context of a Book 2 world. It makes absolutely no sense in a Book 5 world, and was therefore justifiably upped to TL C.

You may be right about Pavanne. However, that one actual error should not automatically invalidate the other changes which were likely intentional.

As for the base data, from what I can tell, everything prior to SMC matches each other. SMC made many changes, and then everything after SMC matches (with the exception of allegiance codes).

 

[daryen]

For what it's worth, I mention much of my findings on the Spinward Marches here: http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000199

 

[mike wightman]

Ahh, but there may be other unintentional mistakes

If all the writers of the MT material, and later the Regency sourcebook, just copied what they thought was correct data then it make sense to correct these mistakes.

 

[daryen]

True, and that's fine.

It is just that, since we can't read the minds of individuals from 25 years ago, (and even if can ask them now, they would not remember) we have to guess as to what is intentional or not.

And on that point, we take different tacks. You seem to want to assume they are errors unless "proven" different. I want to assume they are intentional unless "proven" different.

And then we get to what constitutes "proven".

Of course, there is someone else on the web/CotI that wants to take SMC as the baseline. To each his own. Have fun and good luck!

 

[robject]

Sigg, if you would, please gather up the worst offending UWPs (there ought not be too many of them!), write a line or two for each, and I'll forward them on to Marc for consideration.

Mike West's points are valid, so most of the Marches will be preserved as-is. But Marc's already allowed changes and bugfixes, so send your favorites.

It may be too late, but better late than never.

 

[mike wightman]

Darrian subsector.

886-945 0210, D800000-0 changes to D833000-3, this is probably to bring it in line with the world gen system.

Nonym 0301, C233868-A changes to C233898-A

Terant 340 0602, D1405B7-9 becomes D1405A7-9

494-908 0605, X892000-0 becomes X893000-0

Five Sisters subsector:

769-442 0210, E754401-A becomes E754401-8

Candory 0306, C593634-9 becomes C593634-8

Wonderay 0310, E88A46A-3 becomes E88A46A-4

875-496 0804, E888421-B becomes E888421-7

 

[mike wightman]

Rob, I think daryen is right in thinking most of these changes are deliberate, but there is the odd one that looks like a genuine mistake.

Once I've gone through I'll add a comment for each.

 

[Plankowner]

Sigg, I have to ask, when you are comparing some of this data, are you taking into account the Imperial Year?

After all, on Nonym, couldn't the change in Gov Code simply be that the off world control was lifted and now they have homeworld rule? Terant got a new Leader that the people LIKE (finally).

You might even be able to explain 494-908 as a thawing Ice Age??

Some of the others are harder to explain, but could be done, again, it depends on the time-line.

OK, 886-945 suddenly getting an atmosphere and hydrosphere is a little tough to explain...

I would argue in general that changes to the Population, Government, Law Level, Starport or Tech Level would happen naturally over time; some shorter than others. How many government codes has Germany gone through in the last 200 years??? or Russia?

 

[robject]

Plank's got a point. For smaller populations (say less than a million), government and law level can change at the drop of a hat. Even population in that case can vary wildly.

Larger populations have the possibility of a Gov & LL change, too.

 

[mike wightman]

The data in S3 and Imperial Fringe is the same - and IF is set in 1100.

The SMC is set post FFW, 1110+.

So I agree that law levels and governments may have changed, even the odd system may have had its mainworld redesignated. But you can only use each excuse a few times before it becomes a strain.
And then there's Pavanne...

 

[mike wightman]

Jewell Subsector

Zircon 0310, C791668-9 becomes C792668-8

Mongo 0404, A369685-A becomes A368685-A

871-438 0710, E700000-0 becomes E722000-8 terraforming project?

Vilis Subsector

Caloran 0101, D796746-5 becomes C796746-5 and yet still has a D starport on the map.

Vilis 0309, A593933-A becomes A593943-A

728-907 0404, D955000-0 becomes D955000-2

Tavoni 0710, E567000-0 becomes E567000-7

 

[mike wightman]

The Sword Worlds subsector

Steel 0709, E655000-0 becomes E655000-7

Iron 0806, E529000-0 becomes E529000-9

Bronze 0807, E201000-0 becomes E201000-9

something odd is going on here.

District 268

567-908 0201, E532000-0 becomes E532000-8

Kwai Ching 0210, C503758-8 becomes C503758-A

Datrillian 0501, E229633-8 becomes E227633-8

Judice 0507, E9B2000-0 becomes E9B2000-8

 

[mike wightman]

Well there's definitely a pattern emerging.

Why have so many worlds with no population etc. and TL0 suddenly gained a TL?

 

[robject]

It's bad news, since "TL" generally means "max available TL that adventurers can find and obtain on this world".

So are we to believe that serviceable parts and equipment ranging up to TL8 is freely available on a dozen barren worlds in the Marches?

Sort of a cross between Jumpstart and welfare...