Speaking of Commerce Raiding; Keith Ships

[Blue Ghost]

Anyone remember the Cameleon Class Commerce Raider from FASA? With something like four tripe particle beam turrets and a six silo missile bay, it was described as a "commercial" vessel, but for the life of me I couldn't see anyone but a pirate or naval CO liking or using the thing.

Anyone with any thoughts on this.

 

[atpollard]

Sounds like a generic Free Trader for the post rebellion chaos.

 

[Vargr]

What book/supplement is that ship in? Sounds nifty.

 

[sabredog]

Captain Kidd was given command of the purpose-built Adventure Galley when he went off to be a privateer. He was backed by private investors who commissioned and built the ship and had sake in the profits. So it could be called a "commercial" vessel since profit for the investors was the reason behind it.

This wasn't all that uncommon, although a purpose-built ship for that sort of thing financed and built by investors was. Maybe this commerce raider form FASA was the same sort of thing?

Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia on how the thing was financed :

Four-fifths of the cost for the venture was paid for by noble lords, who were among the most powerful men in England: the Earl of Orford, The Baron of Romney, the Duke of Shrewsbury and Sir John Somers. Kidd was presented with a letter of marque, signed personally by King William III of England. This letter reserved 10% of the loot for the Crown, and Henry Gilbert's The Book of Pirates suggests that the King may have fronted some of the money for the voyage himself. Kidd and an acquaintance, Colonel Robert Livingston, orchestrated the whole plan and paid for the rest. Kidd had to sell his ship Antigua to raise funds.

The new ship, the Adventure Galley,[9] was well suited to the task of catching pirates; weighing over 284 tons, she was equipped with 34 cannons, oars, and 150 men. The oars were a key advantage as they would enable the Adventure Galley to maneuver in a battle when the winds had calmed and other ships were dead in the water. Kidd took pride in personally selecting the crew, choosing only those he deemed to be the best and most loyal officers.

In Traveller it could be a whole new adventure idea to have some minor nobles hire somebody to do a little raiding for a share in the profits. It is a common way that I get players into a campaign myself.

 

[atpollard]

What book/supplement is that ship in? Sounds nifty.

I think that the FASA stuff made it into a Marc Miller CD.

 

[leo knight]

This was in the Adventure Class Ships supplement from FASA. I still have mine... yay! I'm not where I can look it up, but the Chameleon and the Condor SDB were seriously non-standard designs, with heavily over-powered missile bays. I used the Chameleon for my 800 ton type M cruisers, just replaced the 'missile bays' with four triple missile turrets, and I was good. When I can, I'll look into it.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, I remember the text saying something like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "It's every privateer's dream..." or words to that effect. But the thing was marked as being commercially available, which made me wonder who on Earth (or Regina) would market this thing to civilians? I mean, unless you were travelling into the Vargr Extents or something...

 

[BlackBat242]

The Boeing Business Jet is "commercially available"... but can any old pilot with a civil license buy one?

No, it costs a bit much (the site listed below has quite a number of used ones for sale... the only 3 I saw that listed prices were one for $30.5M (US) and two for $46.9M (US)... all 10 years old!

And how many people who have their own "free traders" (small passenger/cargo aircraft, like the Beech 18 {$.1M-.4M US} or de Havilland Dove {$.15M US}) or "fat traders" (medium passenger/cargo aircraft like the DC-3 {$.2M US used, $6.5M for fully-refurbished turboprop conversions with new engines} & Shorts 330 {$1M US used}) can afford that?


No, only large corporations can afford the "commercially available" BBJ... and only large corporations (or worlds) can afford to buy and operate Chameleon Class Commerce Raiders.



BBJ: globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Business_Jet_Aircraft/Boeing_Aerospace

Beech 18 DC-3 & Shorts 330 for sale

de Havilland Dove for sale



Beech 18:
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Beech/beech18.jpg

de Havilland Dove ($.15M US)
http://static.aircraft24.com/images/aircraftpics/33/pic_100133_3_large.jpg

Shorts 330:
http://www.air-and-space.com/198808 SBA/880696 Shorts 330 N789US right rar take-off l.jpg

 

[jatay3]

A more subtle method might be to suborn commerce.

In the ISW, with commerce dominated by the beaureax the Terrans might encourage barratry by promising to recognize defecting ships as the property of the captain and crew and grant Terran citizenship. This could be in combination with normal raiding.

The tricky part is that many Vilani spacers will have their families well behind Vilani lines and might be disinclined to defect.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Terran Citizenship? We're talking 3I here.

 

[jatay3]

Quite so. I just realized that there was more then one Commerce raiding threads here.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Ah, I see the confusion. Sorry about that.

This thread was meant for discussion of the Chameleon. An overpowered FASA ship that the flavor text describes as a "commercial" vessel, complete with barracks to house two full squads of boarders, four triple turrets and a six silo missile bay. "Commercial" vessel.

 

[DonM]

IMTU, privateering ships are commercially available. Companies often hire naval mercs (commonly known as privateers) for escorts in troublesome subsectors, or subsector dukes issue letters of marque for operating as auxilaries of the subsector fleet to deal with various issues (blockades, anti-pirate activities, etc).

And my Third Imperium uses them as Imperial auxilaries during war.

 

[sabredog]

The standard generic commerce raider used IMTU by companies wanting escorts for their ships is this:

Commerce Raider TL-12 225MCr.

250 ton streamlined wedge w/ scoops and fuel purifier

Jump Drive (2) Jump-2

Maneuver Drive (4) 4-G (Agility 4 )

Power Plant (8)

Fuel = 65 tons Cargo = 35 tons
(fittings for 50 ton drop tanks)

Computer = Model 3 (CPU-5/ Storage-9)

Vehicles = Air/Raft

Weapons = 2 Double Turrets…. 1) 2 Pulse Lasers
2) Missile Rack / Sandcaster

Armor = 1

Crew: Captain /Pilot
Navigator
2 Engineers
2 Turret Gunners

The craft is equipped with 4 staterooms.


They may not be the hottest ship in space but they are a reasonable catch-all design for escort and raiding duty. The faceless corporate goons flying them are also reasonably competent, but not nearly as dangerous as the professional privateers who refit heavily armored and armed decommissioned SBD's and the like.

 

[Blue Ghost]

IMTU, privateering ships are commercially available. Companies often hire naval mercs (commonly known as privateers) for escorts in troublesome subsectors, or subsector dukes issue letters of marque for operating as auxilaries of the subsector fleet to deal with various issues (blockades, anti-pirate activities, etc).

And my Third Imperium uses them as Imperial auxilaries during war.

I guess I can kind of see that. But, imagine if you will, you're strolling along with your dad on the starship lot looking to expand the family business of free traders and liners when you happen to come across this thing. I mean, to me it's like looking for a Cesna when you come across a Northrup Grumman F-16. Okay, so the analogy isn't quite like that, but you get the idea.

I dunno, it's just been one of those Traveller bugaboos that's been with me for quite a few years.

 

[Whipsnade]

I dunno, it's just been one of those Traveller bugaboos that's been with me for quite a few years.

BG,

It's a case of cultural blinders.

When first clapping my eyes on Traveller and the setting which slowly accreted around it, I couldn't quite grok the "militancy" of it all. Sure, it was a game and a game is going to play those aspect up, but why would people be running around in ships like that let alone selling them to anyone with the loan papers?

Then I began reading more and more about the historical periods which Traveller's interstellar communications most resemble and I realized that there was a very fine line between trading and raiding. What's more, even the best intentioned traders couldn't depend on the intentions of others. Ships in the service of the EIC, for example, were armed nearly as well as those built of the Royal Navy.

We've got distant central governments whose forces are generally pinned down protecting important systems and a helluva lot of "back country" where, when nastiness occurs, it's going to be months before any central government officials hear of it.

Shopping for Cessnas and stumbling across a F-16 isn't going to happen, that's like shopping for Cheese Whiz and finding caviar. There are brokers and yards who specialize in each kind of craft, so you'll visit either depending on your needs.

"Commercial" warships have a role to play in the setting and enough historical analogs to make that role entirely plausible.

It's just that that role seems awfully strange to our 20th/21st Century, mass media, liberal, Western democracy eyes.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Blue Ghost]

You know, that makes sense.

Forget the rest of my original post. I'm tired and hungry.

Thanks for the thoughts

 

[DonM]

I can't forget the rest of your original post though... The old FASA materials are great stuff.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Heh, well, a more cogent take would be this; I had certain prejudices in my mind as to what the 3I is and should be. A sort of United States of America in space, so to speak. When in reality it was more of a Medieval Europe or classic Roman Empire establishment. With that in mind, it was my middle school thinking that warships of any ilk would be off limits to the common starship purchaser. Heavy artillerly is, after all, a no-no when it comes to selling hardware to Joe Average. Ergo, on that train of thought, it seemed illogical that such a heavily armed and armored ship, one clearly meant for warfare of somekind, would be available to Merchant Prince - X, who just made a killing on sellig chew toys and Bonz crackers in the Extents.

Again, it's all about where your framework is. Your actual mindset of where you see your Personal Traveller Universe, and how it operates. To me the Chameleon is warship. There're no two ways about it. And when it was first described as a commercial vessel I balked at the idea. I can't remember, but I think I might've spit out some reheated pizza that afternoon when I was reading the booklet

Anyway, I hope that sounds a bit clearer, and a little better thought out.

 

[leo knight]

I finally dug out my copy of Adventure Class Ships. The Chameleon is a monster: 800 tons, jump 3, maneuver 3, armor factor A, she has a 50 ton missile bay eek, four particle accellerator barbettes, and a triple laser turret.

From the description:

"Every pirate's dream is to own and operate a ship like this. Code named Chameleon by law enforcement authorities, a single ship of this class of commerce raider can easily take on any regular merchant of up to 2,000 tons. Its heavy armaments cause most merchant captains to give up upon contact."

Enjoy!