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SORAG

A quick question for all you Zodani experts out there....

The Thought Police are explained in the old CT Alien Module but SORAG is not mentioned there. Apparently SORAG is the foreign intelligence service while the Tch. are internal security security?

Is SORAG canon? Where is it described in detail if anywhere?
 
It (only?) appeared in the Paranoia Press SORAG book, and I'm fairly sure it's been decanonised. A new intelligence service was recently introduced, I think in a GT book.
 
Yes, SORAG is a Paranoia Press thing.. it also turns up in Beyond and Vanguard Reaches. I believe the PP stuff has been de-canonized (kinda like St. Christopher...), which of course does not make it any less useful in YTU or MTU... just off limits in the OTU.

Regards,

--michael
 
And if you want a copy, Security Leak Mag is selling them for a few bucks (not totally cheap, but I still wanted one for my collection).
 
26 pages offairly useful info. "The purpose of SORAG is to observe the progress of emerging interstellar soceties using overt and passive means." I havn't found anything in the book that conflicts seriously with canon material. Consider that the US has the FBI, CIA, CID, and a few other alphabet soup orginazations to keep track of information, all with their own agenda.

The Equipment and Pharmaceuticals section I have found quite useful.

Has anyone seen Scouts and Assasins by Parranoia Press?
 
Originally posted by vegascat:
Has anyone seen Scouts and Assasins by Parranoia Press?
I happen to have in my possession S&A and Merchants and Merchandise. M&M is actually pretty neat because of some of the skills it suggests (like starship maintenance, life support systems, and security) if for no other reason. S&A is okay, mostly because it gives an interesting 'failed survival roll' table.

I think that Third Imperium (or was it Security Leak? It might well have been them) did a better job of the assassin (an extended generation system) than S&A did.
 
Originally posted by vegascat:
26 pages offairly useful info. "The purpose of SORAG is to observe the progress of emerging interstellar soceties using overt and passive means."
Umm, this is misleading.

The book says:

SORAG is a special purpose division of the Zhodani Consulate Combined Interstellar Forces.
The name is an acronym for Study and Operations Recording Activities Group. The purpose of SORAG is to observe the progress of emerging interstellar societies using overt and passive means. Most of the activities of the organization consist of receiving civilian transmissions of various types and recording or cataloging the facts therein. SORAG is a means whereby the Zhodani can stay abreast of changes in the government and technological level of various societies within the Consulate and Client States.


The book goes on to say:

The previous statement, gleaned from any number of official publications of the Zhodani Consulate, is almost completely false.

and:

Its purpose is to infiltrate and perform surveillance on various interstellar governments and military services with which the CAD [Colonnade Administrative District] comes into contact with. [rimward area of the consulate - ed]

Activities within the sphere of SORAG's mission include: guerilla warfare, subversion, sabotage, escape and evasion, black and grey psychological operations and other operations best described as unconventional warfare.

So, it is hardly a benign organization from the perspective of other interstellar nations. Think Psionic CIA or KGB or MI-6.
 
So, it is hardly a benign organization from the perspective of other interstellar nations. Think Psionic CIA or KGB or MI-6.

=================================================
Indeed. Bureaucracies are infamous for writing up bland "mission statements" [I long for the days before mission statements] to bury true information.

Until 1973, the CIA's Directorate of Operations [aka Clandestine Services] was called the Directorate of Plans or Planning. Going back into the 1950's and 1960's its covert warfare and operations section was called OPC --Office of Policy Coordination.
file_21.gif


So I agree with Kaladorn. It is false.
 
Zho Berkka wil be upset to hear this

SORAG is a special purpose division of the Zhodani Consulate Combined Interstellar Forces.
The name is an acronym for Study and Operations Recording Activities Group. The purpose of SORAG is to observe the progress of emerging interstellar societies using overt and passive means. Most of the activities of the organization consist of receiving civilian transmissions of various types and recording or cataloging the facts therein. SORAG is a means whereby the Zhodani can stay abreast of changes in the government and technological level of various societies within the Consulate and Client States.

The book goes on to say:

The previous statement, gleaned from any number of official publications of the Zhodani Consulate, is almost completely false.
You didn't take a Zho intel agency at it's word? But if you can't trust a mind reading/warping intellegence organization, then who can you trust?
 
But what would we do without the Zhodani to keep our naval forces employed. Massive unemployment, no threat of the thought police, no place to keep the thugs and undesirable homicidal maniacs busy defending the borders.
 
Originally posted by secretagent:
Indeed. Bureaucracies are infamous for writing up bland "mission statements" [I long for the days before mission statements] to bury true information.
Today, by the time a company is big enough to acquire a mission statement, it has lost sight of where it was going.

Similarly, by the time personel has changed to human resources, there are few of those left.

And when you start having sensitivity training, it should usually be labelled 'looking for something to be offended about' training.

And if the company starts talking about branding, this usually also is a sign that not only do they not know who they are and what they are doing, neither do their (mostly fictitious) customers.

If I sound like cynical veteran of life in cube-ville, I plead entirely guilt. And still in the 12-step recovery program.
 
Originally posted by vegascat:
But what would we do without the Zhodani to keep our naval forces employed. Massive unemployment, no threat of the thought police, no place to keep the thugs and undesirable homicidal maniacs busy defending the borders.
Let's see, with the Zhos we get:
1) A need for naval force to keep the unenlightened at bay
2) The Zhos would arrange full employment in jobs people would like or they'd at least be made comfortable with their status as 'indefinitely liesured'
3) There would be no homicidal maniacs (unless they were deployed as part of a mind warping intelligence agency)

I like the Zhodani in some ways as a very interesting example of how a culture of honest and well adjusted people could be, but that could scare the living crap out of their neighbours who are much less honest and much less well adjusted but who like it like that, thank you very kindly!

And the prefered epithet is "Stinkin' Zho!" in our campaign.
 
I am not sure that I agree with above descriptions of the Zhodani. I rather favor the Alien Realms/Delta 3 interpetation.

In which, I think they are a branch of humaniti that evolved with a different central tenant. Which poses the question, what would we do if we could see in others minds. Do we create an open society or close it off. These are the real questions the Zhodani pose. The answer that comes back is create an oligarchy. But, at the same time, it creates the challenges of trying to maintain glasnost. Therefore, the democratic mechanism mediated by the nobility becomes the folcrum.

Now contrast that with the major other branches of Humaniti:

A racist, xenophobic government that periodically dreams of conquest of all Chartered Space...the Solomani.

A personalized dictatorship whereby all positions of power depend upon loyality to a remote Central government, that doesn't give a damn with what you say rather shafting the question to local authorities which either impose a dictatorial will or are in the pockets of the plutocrats, anyhow...the Imperium.

So out of those choices, I think that the Zhodani show the dangers of government but also provide a model how government can be a benefit.
 
Originally posted by kafka47:
I am not sure that I agree with above descriptions of the Zhodani. I rather favor the Alien Realms/Delta 3 interpetation.
Though you don't have to agree, I am prepared to argue from the canonical references here that my interpretation is reasonable.

In which, I think they are a branch of humaniti that evolved with a different central tenant. Which poses the question, what would we do if we could see in others minds. Do we create an open society or close it off.
Note that the Zhos occupy both of those positions: They are 'open' and 'honest' but they also adjust malcontents 'for their own good'.

These are the real questions the Zhodani pose. The answer that comes back is create an oligarchy. But, at the same time, it creates the challenges of trying to maintain glasnost. Therefore, the democratic mechanism mediated by the nobility becomes the folcrum.
They don't have a democracy. They have an illusion of one, but that's as far as it goes. Kind of like modern G20 countries, only with different aspects.

Now contrast that with the major other branches of Humaniti:

A racist, xenophobic government that periodically dreams of conquest of all Chartered Space...the Solomani.
Latter day revisionist tripe. ;)

The early Solomani presentation was nothing very much like this (Solomani Rim supplement). It is even arguable how much influence the Party really does have and how much of a dissident/liberal movement there is. And do they want to conquer all of chartered space? I'm not so sure. They do make the argument they are more fit to rule, but then really so do the Imperial Nobles. And the Imperial Moot's stance on Brzrk tells me they too have 'racial equality' issues. And they have been repeatedly booted by the Imperium, so they do have some good reasons for complaint.

A personalized dictatorship whereby all positions of power depend upon loyality to a remote Central government, that doesn't give a damn with what you say rather shafting the question to local authorities which either impose a dictatorial will or are in the pockets of the plutocrats, anyhow...the Imperium.
Not that you can't imagine this as ONE possible intepretation, but it is hardly the necessary or only one.

How do you know if the Emperor gives a damn what his subjects say? You have no real idea how he governs. You also have no idea how well the Imperial Nobility governs. It may do a lot of good things for the people - for one obvious thing, it provides (most of the time) a very stable background for trade.

Your interpretation isn't invalid, but it is just one view of things. There are others equally substantiable.

So out of those choices, I think that the Zhodani show the dangers of government but also provide a model how government can be a benefit.
The Zhodani are both an interesting society because they embody openess and honesty and because they help to insure that their people are happy and like what they are doing and their role in society. But they are the ultimate Liberal Paternalists, with a bit of Big Brother who tolerates no dissent thrown in for a good measure. They don't have the Tav'chedrl for for nothing. And they do, undoubtedly, willingly sponsor insurrectionist movements in neighbouring space that get people killed, so they don't seem to give two hoots about anyone who is not one of their citizens.

What makes them interesting is they don't fight wars with the Imperium (mostly) to win territory. They just want to hold their own and be left alone. Mind you, they do work through their client states and at their borders to gradually work nations into a state where they can be absorbed. This policy of glacially slow growth and absorption is the only way for them to grow in a stable fashion.

But they are also interesting because their central management and their noble classes allow them to pursue amazing long term planning agendas, like the Core Expeditions. In that sense, they verge on being Chinese or Manchurian. (Whereas the Solomani in latter days were given a Soviet cast...).

The thing that makes them wonderful is that their society, despite being based on some assumptions that differ dramatically from the 3I, has some sort of cohesive logic to it. Their outlook seems based on their psionics and their adaption to them. Some of us find their empire repugnant, stagnant, and intrusive. Some probably envy its stability, peace, and the average level of contentment its citizens have. That's what really rocks about the Zhos - they are both enviable and despicable by parts, your view depending on your own values and probably what kind of past you've had in other systems.
 
Not sure if the old Paranoia Press Sorag book was decanonized, but even so, it remains a fun read.

How can you not like a book that includes skills such as "Poisons & Antidotes", "Escape & Evasion", "Special Weapons" and "Torture"? Or describes weapons such as the hypogun, firing poison bullets tipped with molecular acids (reminiscent of the old Soviet poison-tipped umbrella), favoured by Sorag assassins.

Sorag makes the Tvarchedl' look like boyscouts. Surviving a Sorag operation was less difficult than mustering out, where an agent faced liquidation or re-education by Sorag, capture and reconditioning by the enemy, or was forced to fake his own death. Good stuff.

Slightly off topic, but imo, the Zhodani and the Solomani manifest two aspects of the same drive: the desire for purity - internal mental purity of the Zhodani or the external racial purity of the Solomani. Both are nihilistic and ultimately destructive. Fertile ground for heroes and villians, apostates or true believers, depending on your worldview.
 
Originally posted by Shayde01:
Not sure if the old Paranoia Press Sorag book was decanonized, but even so, it remains a fun read.
Think so, can't confirm though. But I concur.

Slightly off topic, but imo, the Zhodani and the Solomani manifest two aspects of the same drive: the desire for purity - internal mental purity of the Zhodani or the external racial purity of the Solomani. Both are nihilistic and ultimately destructive. Fertile ground for heroes and villians, apostates or true believers, depending on your worldview.
Well, while we're damning, how about the 3rd Imperium as a quietly-repressive (not like the Solomani, but no Vargr shall rule) entrenched hereditary oligarchy which would have to be considered impersonal bureaucracy by most standards and which features all of the good (???) aspects of bureaucratic infighting, pettiness, internal feudalism, waste, noble blood and honour with their attendant violent fiascos, etc.
It's a great place for those who believe in aristocratic rule by 'blood' or 'merit' both of which seem dubious and it ends up being a place with both an unstable government and lots of ambitious people who forget what matters and what bound the 3I together.

So, as much as the Zhos and the Sollies are bad guys, so too is the Imperial Gov't, if you look at it the right way.

And this, IMO, is what makes the OTU a great and magnificent place. All sides have their assets, all sides have their flaws and dark secrets.
 
Zhodani - Be careful what you think because they really are reading your mind.

Imperium - The guy in charge has no real idea what the majority of his people are doing, or even if they exist. To be someone, your family had to have power long before you were born.

Solomani - Everyone but the KKK left for better parts

Hiver - So what happens if I do "this" to them? Oh, that didn't turn out like what I expected, Maybe next time I will get it better.

Vargr - Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Rum!

Aslan - IF it doesn't have anything to do with aquiring more land or honor, then why bother.

K'Kree - Ah, wonderful friend, come and enjoy our hospitality. That's not meat on your breath is it?

No one is perfect.
 
Originally posted by vegascat:
Zhodani - Be careful what you think because they really are reading your mind.
Or "I wish they'd hurry up and read my mind and adjust it. Then I could be happy with the idea of them reading my mind."

Imperium - The guy in charge has no real idea what the majority of his people are doing, or even if they exist. To be someone, your family had to have power long before you were born.

Solomani - Everyone but the KKK left for better parts
Or were re-educated by SolSec....

"Okley Doakley Do Neighoritos! Welcome to the Re-Ned-U-Cation Camp!...."

Hiver - So what happens if I do "this" to them? Oh, that didn't turn out like what I expected, Maybe next time I will get it better.
Mind you, I could still claim this was the result of the manipulation I tried many years ago... (butterfly flaps its wings, Hiver invents the Corn Dog)

Vargr - Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Rum!
Arr Matey! Awoooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

Aslan - IF it doesn't have anything to do with aquiring more land or honor, then why bother.
And never both from the same gender.

K'Kree - Ah, wonderful friend, come and enjoy our hospitality. That's not meat on your breath is it?
Or "2000 Worlds Worth of Reasons To Convert To Veganism"
 
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