Solomani Sector/Subsector Administration

[Garnfellow]

With the general absence of a hereditary nobility system, how does the Solomani government work at a sector or subsector level? Rather than a duke, is a subsector controlled by a governor? Party committee? Or is administration a naval function? Would the position be elected, or appointed?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Good question. AFAICT there is no sector/subsector-level of government. Member states/worlds send representatives straight to the Secretariat.

I think the Navy follows the Imperial structure.

 

[Whipsnade]

Garnfellow,

The Imperium and Confederation are "assembled" rather differently. Very roughly speaking, while the Imperium is made up of individual polities on single worlds, the Confederation is made up of individual polities which can encompass multiple worlds.

Put another way, the Confederation is a "confederation of confederations" while the Imperium is a "confederation of worlds"

There are exceptions to this of course. There are individual world polities within the Confederation while the Imperium contains both autonomous districts and worlds which own others. However, generally speaking, the two empires are assembled from different sized components. It's because the Confederation is made up of larger constituent components, that it has no need for much in the way of government structures at the subsector level.

Please note that I wrote "government" and not "military" in that last sentence.

Now, an aside on subsectors...

Even in the Imperium, subsectors are more of a mapping contrivance and/or an indication of military district boundaries than a unit of governance. That's because the intermediate unit of governance within the Imperium, the duchy, does not always equate a subsector.

The Imperium has subsectors that aren't duchies; Lanth is one such and Jewell is another. The Imperium also has duchies that encompass more than one subsector; the Duchy of Regina is an example of that.

Hope all this nonsense helps.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Garnfellow]

It's odd -- we know how the Confederation is run at a local system level and at the Secretariat level, but nothing in between.

Traveller's Aide #9 - Fighting Ships of the Solomani states that the Confederation does use Imperial style fleet groupings at the sector and subsector level.

Based on the various Solomani Rim supplements, the Confederation does name subsector capitals, though maybe they do not play as important a role as they do within the Imperium, where the capital is supposed to represent the "single most important world in the subsector." (Not that I'm sure that's really true in Imperial space, either.)

I have seen second-hand references to a Digest Publications Group source that described how the Solomani moved a subsector capital in the Magyar sector to punish the local system.

 

[Garnfellow]

The Imperium and Confederation are "assembled" rather differently. Very roughly speaking, while the Imperium is made up of individual polities on single worlds, the Confederation is made up of individual polities which can encompass multiple worlds.

Put another way, the Confederation is a "confederation of confederations" while the Imperium is a "confederation of worlds"

That is a very good point and one I haven't seen emphasized very much in the various Solomani supplements. (It also flies in the face of the common myth of a monolithic Solomani culture.)

Even in the Imperium, subsectors are more of a mapping contrivance and/or an indication of military district boundaries than a unit of governance. That's because the intermediate unit of governance within the Imperium, the duchy, does not always equate a subsector.

Thanks for clarifying that -- I've never been sure if every subsector was supposed to have a duke or not. And I certainly have never seen much evidence to support the assertion that the capital is usually the most important system in the subsector.

This all does make me wonder why the Sollies bother to name subsector capitals.

 

[rancke]

Thanks for clarifying that -- I've never been sure if every subsector was supposed to have a duke or not.

I'd say that the theory is that every subsector is supposed to be a duchy (That's how an early essay about the Imperium's organization describe it), but for various practical reasons some are not. The (completely arbitrary) figure I use myself is that about 10% of Imperial subsectors[*] are not duchies. I also think that oversized duchies are unpopular with the Emperor and that the Duchy of Regina is an exceptionally large one. YMMV.

[*] By which I mean any subsector with enough Imperial worlds to station a regular Imperial Navy fleet in it. District 268 doesn't count, for example.​

Hans

 

[Whipsnade]

It also flies in the face of the common myth of a monolithic Solomani culture.

Garnfellow,

Monolithic culture? CT's Solomani Alien Module certainly doesn't present a monolithic culture, neither does Rats & Cats for MT.

What is "monolithic" about the Solomani is the acceptable range of political beliefs. Not local political beliefs mind you, the Confederation member states range from analogs of 21st Century liberal Western democracies to neo-Boers practicing slavery, but political beliefs on the interstellar level.

If they want a successful career, a Solomani must at least pay lip service to the tenets of the Solomani Cause. After that, all bets are off.

Thanks for clarifying that -- I've never been sure if every subsector was supposed to have a duke or not.

Every subsector doesn't have a duke because every subsector isn't necessarily a duchy.

And I certainly have never seen much evidence to support the assertion that the capital is usually the most important system in the subsector.

There are many plausible reasons for that. The Imperium may not want to place the capital on an already powerful world, the Imperium may not want to choose between two or more powerful worlds, or the worlds in question may not have been able to agree among themselves which would be the capital. The shenanigans surrounding which towns became county seats in the US west are a good guide for this. Indianapolis is another. It was actually founded because none of the existing towns and cities in Indiana could agree on where the state capital would be.

You also need to remember the awesome depth of time in the setting. The Imperium is over one thousand years old. Several centuries can have passed between when the duchy capital was chosen and the "snapshot" we have in 1105.

This all does make me wonder why the Sollies bother to name subsector capitals.

Again, several reasons. The Sollies were once part of the Imperium and thus "inherited" subsector/duchy capitals, there are also a few "subsector"-level Confederation government functions, and there are still the "military districts" to be managed.

The varying roles of US counties is a rather good guide for the varying roles of subsectors/duchies in the Imperium and Confederation. In some states, counties are preeminent. They, rather than the towns and cities within them, set taxes, manage school districts, run the police and other emergency services, fund transportation departments, and so forth. In other states, counties are almost vestigal and exist only as court districts.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Garnfellow]

The varying roles of US counties is a rather good guide for the varying roles of subsectors/duchies in the Imperium and Confederation. In some states, counties are preeminent. They, rather than the towns and cities within them, set taxes, manage school districts, run the police and other emergency services, fund transportation departments, and so forth. In other states, counties are almost vestigal and exist only as court districts.

Yeah, that's another good analogy. I live in a state where counties have almost no role, but I frequently work in western states where the county is often the most influential authority.

I do wonder if the Solomani don't combine the civilian and military functions and make subsector capitals also the base of the subsector fleets.

 

[Whipsnade]

I do wonder if the Solomani don't combine the civilian and military functions and make subsector capitals also the base of the subsector fleets.

Garnfellow,

That's probably a good bet. Despite being a "confederation of confederations", the SolCon shouldn't be entirely lacking any organs of government at this level. They just have fewer at that level in relation to the Imperium.

When we remember that the SolCon is far more of an interventionist in the affairs of member state than the Imperium, there must be some sort of an administrative hub that all the "nosey parkers" work out of.

As for the fleet, the maps shows the usual sprinkling of navy and military bases. However, because the SolCon Fleet relies more on "call ups" from member state navies than the Imperium, there would need to be some sort of administrative hub to handle this "confederalization" process.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Starviking]

I'd say that the theory is that every subsector is supposed to be a duchy (That's how an early essay about the Imperium's organization describe it), but for various practical reasons some are not. The (completely arbitrary) figure I use myself is that about 10% of Imperial subsectors[*] are not duchies. I also think that oversized duchies are unpopular with the Emperor and that the Duchy of Regina is an exceptionally large one. YMMV.

[*] By which I mean any subsector with enough Imperial worlds to station a regular Imperial Navy fleet in it. District 268 doesn't count, for example.​

Hans

To me the subsectors have to be just mapping conventions, and when you consider how important mains and clusters are to interstellar travel in the OTU it really doesn't make much sense for most OTU subsectors to be Duchies.

However, on the frontiers it might make more sense as military matters trumps commerce, and mains and clusters don't mean as much when you're in a J-4 Cruiser.

 

[rancke]

To me the subsectors have to be just mapping conventions, and when you consider how important mains and clusters are to interstellar travel in the OTU it really doesn't make much sense for most OTU subsectors to be Duchies.

Assuming the shipbuilding rules are anywhere close to "reality", mains have practically no importance at all, since they only matter to long-distance traffic, and jump-2 and jump-3 are both cheaper and faster than jump-1. That's long-distance traffic. Jump-1 is obviously cheapest over a distance of one parsec.

Clusters are more important, or would be if half the worlds in them weren't economically insignificant.

I see it as a legacy from the 1st Imperium. I think the Vilani were rigid about making each subsector an administrative subdivision, whether it made sense or not. The 3rd Imperiun is more flexible, but still tries to stick to the customary pattern.

However, on the frontiers it might make more sense as military matters trumps commerce, and mains and clusters don't mean as much when you're in a J-4 Cruiser.

Mains and clusters don't make all that much never mind when your commercial traffic is mostly carried by jump-2 and jump-3 ships. Now, back in the day when the Ziru Sirka only had jump-1 it was a different matter.


Hans

 

[Theophilus]

Another thing to consider is this, If you have the Atlas of the Imperium and you look at the Solomani Sphere sectors you'll note that the sector to the "left" of the solomani rim and the rim sector are all solomani worlds, but if you look to the "right" side, half the worlds in the solomani sphere are non aligned.

Odd, but true.

 

[BlackBat242]

The worlds on the Aslan side are monolithicly Solomani, while those on the Hiver side are as likely to be "non-aligned" as to be Solomani?

Sounds like Hiver manipulations to me... where's Gruffty?

:smirk:

 

[Lycanorukke]

Sounds like Hiver manipulations to me

True - but also the Aslan have more than a bit of a reputation for grabbing any bit of land which isn't defended to the teeth - so any Sol worlds near the Aslan border would be "Ra ra ra! Go Sollies!" if only for defence purposes.

The Hivers are generally seen as weird but passive who sell lots of cheap electronics crap. The whole manipulation thing seen as conspiracy rants...by people who can't see how cool the new H-Pod is...shiney...

 

[Starviking]

Assuming the shipbuilding rules are anywhere close to "reality", mains have practically no importance at all, since they only matter to long-distance traffic, and jump-2 and jump-3 are both cheaper and faster than jump-1. That's long-distance traffic. Jump-1 is obviously cheapest over a distance of one parsec.

Clusters are more important, or would be if half the worlds in them weren't economically insignificant.

I think that looking at the cheapness of long-distance travel is a bit misleading, as if we look at two series of identical worlds - one with the worlds at J-2 from each other, and the others at J-1 - then the economies of the J-1 worlds will be stronger as transport costs will be lower. Now to get the products of their economies further out into the sector will require higher jump capable ships, but that the local level these J-1 worlds are going to be important, with closer ties than the J-2 worlds. If there are enough of these J-1 worlds then it would make sense for them to be a Duchy, no matter where the mapped Subsector boundaries were.

With you on the Clusters. Probably a lot of them should be Duchies too.

 

[aramis]

In looking at what it costs to operate a ship over the distances, it's not really that advantageous to ship J2 over 2J1 for durable goods. Saves a few dozen credits per Td.

The cost, however is higher, and therefore demand should be lower, than for 1J1; therefore, lines will prefer to shunt as much as possible to filling J1's which are cheaper overall to operate for the given profit margin.

J2 shipping should be considerably rarer, then, for cargo. Passengers, however, are significantly cheaper (2/3 cost or so) for 1j2 instead of 2j1; if there is a reason for people to be going, then most will be wanting a J2 liner instead of J1, not just for the time savings, but also the cost savings that should produce.

Whether the rules provide for this or not is another matter.

 

[rancke]

In looking at what it costs to operate a ship over the distances, it's not really that advantageous to ship J2 over 2J1 for durable goods. Saves a few dozen credits per Td.

That depends on what ship design rules you use. I'm using QSDS1.5, which is more or less HG with sensible power plant fuel consumption (Well, a little more than that). I found that jump-3 was slightly cheaper than jump-2 and that both were a couple of hundred credits cheaper than jump-1. Someone (I think it was Anthony) told me he'd worked it out for HG and that jump-2 was slightly cheaper than jump-3, but that both were a couple of hundred credits cheaper than jump-1.

The cost, however is higher, and therefore demand should be lower, than for 1J1; therefore, lines will prefer to shunt as much as possible to filling J1's which are cheaper overall to operate for the given profit margin.

I'm unable to follow the logic of this statement.

J2 shipping should be considerably rarer, then, for cargo. Passengers, however, are significantly cheaper (2/3 cost or so) for 1j2 instead of 2j1; if there is a reason for people to be going, then most will be wanting a J2 liner instead of J1, not just for the time savings, but also the cost savings that should produce.

Note that J4 is only 25% dearer than J2/J3. The saving in time could well be worth that uch for many people.

Whether the rules provide for this or not is another matter.

Ain't that the sad, sad truth!


Hans

 

[rancke]

I think that looking at the cheapness of long-distance travel is a bit misleading, as if we look at two series of identical worlds - one with the worlds at J-2 from each other, and the others at J-1 - then the economies of the J-1 worlds will be stronger as transport costs will be lower.

Why would transport costs be lower? If Porozlo wants to trade with Rhylanor on one side or with Jae Tellona on the other side, naturally it will use jump-1 ships. But if Rhylanor and Jae Tellona trade with each other, they will use jump-2 ships.

As for worlds along a main, low-population worlds don't import much and don't export much. So as far as trade is concerned, any low-population world is effectively almost the same as an empty hex. It's cheaper to bypass it using jump-2 than to send stuff through it using two jumps-1.


Hans