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Solee

A

Arsulon

SOC-12
Hey Liam,

I don't mean to bore you with these questions but I can't seem to find the Solee material you sent me a while back (the answers were probably in there.)

1) What WAS Solee's official and unofficial take on psionics? Are they training telepathic infiltration cadres or do they equate it with heresy?

2) Do they dedicate significant resources to intelligence? Do they have agents in the RC or even just on Lancer?

3) Did they grab that Depot to coreward? Did it cost them anything?

4) Slavery or indentured servitude? If the former, are we looking at the Roman model or pre American Civil War model?

5) I've got a good idea of their naval strength but how do their ground forces stack up against the RC? Are the examples in Smash and Grab a pretty good guide?

6) Do the Soleeans consider themselves the inheritors or Margaret's Domain or are they a totally new entity? If the former, do they have a strong sense of manifest destiny and where (astrographicallly) is it most focussed?

Thanks! Take your time with this stuff: I should know most of the answers but after my extended hiatus from the forum I just don't remember.
 
Uh oh. The RC finally got to poor Liam: he's never out of touch this long. Pretty soon we'll start getting posts from Aubaine like this:

"This is Liam. I am on Aubaine with all of my new Star Viking friends. When I am not smashing and grabbing, I like to talk about how bad the Imperium was and wear black and yellow pajamas. I think heretics should be sacrificed to the starfish god."

Don't worry buddy! We're coming for you!
 
Arsulon,

From memory of reading Liam's stuff, here are some of the answers.

1 major DAG planet is heavily psi, and uses it for its own benefit. I think they lend solee people as needed by, they are loyal to the planet not solee

They took depot and have heavyily colonised it (very hush hush, like those nuclear cities the russians had) with help of friendly vamps. Itcost them battle damage to a Imperial era cruiser that made up the heart of their fleet in that area. It was out of action for about 6 months ish

Ground forces, quite large, although lots of them are investing other planets, garrision duty, running gulags etc.

Slavery / servitiude, the ones they have not bomed out of existance are subject to effective economic domination, with a few showing the flag bases / navy / army units "for your protection!!!"
They also employ gulags - russian version. Not generally into slavery - american or roman.

Can't remember the other 2 questions, will post this and look

Cheers
Richard
 
arsulon,

right, last 2 questions

Some consider themselves the inheritors of margarets dream (mostly remenants from her faction and those infulenced by them). Unfortunately the naval high command is lucan faction with a good dose of alien hating solsec. oops!

Do they intel. Yes a very well developed system widely used in their campaigns of planetary conquest, a mix of Lucan's IN , solsec, and mega-corp special forces like the Vememe. They also have agents in Mueller, enough to attempt a military coup, and 1 major mole in the RC - a naval contractor, who gets discovered and turned by the RC. The RC have an remenant IRIS agent who cobbles together a counter intel force from PC types and some university drama school types. Keen, unknown but not very experienced.

Cheers
Richard
 
Originally posted by Arsulon:
Hey Liam,

I don't mean to bore you with these questions but I can't seem to find the Solee material you sent me a while back (the answers were probably in there.)

1) What WAS Solee's official and unofficial take on psionics? Are they training telepathic infiltration cadres or do they equate it with heresy?

### Solee used them, in accordance to alliance with the Democratic Accord of Galines (a polity in the Jayna subesctor, coreward of Shenk-CZERNIAK, GALINES, & Thanatos, Kunni(Cs),Walager (Cs), Skerry (Cm),Rebields (Cm), Krag (Cm), & Kata (Cs) ), that they co-opted in late 1190's. Key world with Psi folks is the isolated world of Czerniak (TL-B, B-class port, IMTU). Only On Czerniak is there an Open Institute.

2) Do they dedicate significant resources to intelligence? Do they have agents in the RC or even just on Lancer?

### The DAG, & SOleean efforts merged with the Empress' acension in 1192, and subsequent alliance in 1193. The DAG polity had Vermene (Galines) and psionic agents (Czerniak) added to the IN, SolSec mix of Solee. The Soleeans have extensive contacts on many worlds, and have a Spec Ops troops as well assigned to the Intel gathering processes.The merged Intel unit is called SIS (Soleean Imperial Securitat), tho the CIA (Czerniak Intelligence Agency) remains a seperate entity, but "shares" sources.

3) Did they grab that Depot to coreward? Did it cost them anything?

Yes, they seized it in 1199. Yes it put a IMP relic cruiser out of commission for 6 months. They gained the automatic shipyards hidden in system, and TOP SECRET: allied their efforts wioth a Mother strained Support Tanker/Repair dock & the AI Hobbyist running the auto shipyard.
They spent the next 4 years sending people there, ala the Russki Nuke cities or Cold war. It's contents allowed the Soleeans to upgrade Solee & Thanatos to B, Galines to B, and Czerniak to A class by 365-1201. Itself went A-class in 001-1204 launching ten TL-11 ships (small 1ktn destroyer escorts "Longsword class", (J2/4G) for convoy & picket duties..

4) Slavery or indentured servitude? If the former, are we looking at the Roman model or pre American Civil War model?

Work gulags for Guild smugglers, Guild raiders, Guild slavers, Criminals, dissidents, and enemy PWs (marcena/ Hindahl predominately). Stalin model. OUTRIGHT SLAVERY, no.

5) I've got a good idea of their naval strength but how do their ground forces stack up against the RC? Are the examples in Smash and Grab a pretty good guide?

Soleean garrison forces come in three levels under the Empress' New Legions!
The Soleeans (TL-10/9 homogenous forces)
"Second Stringers"- Kmak troops (TL-7)
"Indigenous Forces" (Varies planet to planet, TL-4+). Usually the Co-Opted TED's troops, with Soleean cadres interspersed.

6) Do the Soleeans consider themselves the inheritors or Margaret's Domain or are they a totally new entity? If the former, do they have a strong sense of manifest destiny and where (astrographicallly) is it most focussed?

The Soleean Admiralty is split between margaret's dreamers, and Lucan remnants in the High Command. The Solomani anti-alien thing is big with them (Pro Humaniti!), the supremacists have a majority politically. They are countered however by margarets' dreamers, Czerniak, and the Osagi in the Exage system/SRys subsector.

Thanks! Take your time with this stuff: I should know most of the answers but after my extended hiatus from the forum I just don't remember.
Click to expand...
I've been busy, lad. ;)
 
Originally posted by kafka47:
Yeah Liam...what about posting that document?
Click to expand...
-----------------------------------------------
Here's another (The man behind the margaret's dream plan in the Soleean navy..My hero!)

http://www.downport.com/~bard/bard/dani/dani1400.html

Or, how the Soleean Navy got "Bigger"...
the man behind the Ted Bustin/ conversion programme for empire..
RADM Werner von Kessel, Imp relic, Margaret's Navy, then Solee's..
and lastly, the RCN...
 
Originally posted by Arsulon:
Uh oh. The RC finally got to poor Liam: he's never out of touch this long. Pretty soon we'll start getting posts from Aubaine like this:

"This is Liam. I am on Aubaine with all of my new Star Viking friends. When I am not smashing and grabbing, I like to talk about how bad the Imperium was and wear black and yellow pajamas. I think heretics should be sacrificed to the starfish god."

Don't worry buddy! We're coming for you!
Click to expand...
-------------------------------------------------
This is a meson message from the the captured Soleean BB "Fist of Solee"...
What? a Tow? And lose our salvage?!....No thank you, we have power!..we'll see you in port...Who am I?...Why lad, tis wee Martin Rourke, and "the Admiral's men"..."
--circa 1204, Uphafen port/ Mueller/Shenk.
(Conversation recorded between Unknown ship, and FMSS Guderian, the pride of Mueller's fleet, a 700ktn TL-B battleship..

Returning with 2,300 EPWs from Sovtor prison, among them Rebbeka Guiterrez...
 
Liam,

Just checked out your sites. They look mighty grand. What are your thoughts regarding the future of Spinward States and the fate of Avery (both in his fictional incarnation and real).

Also, as a heretic in charge what would you like see as the fate of the far Rimward colonies of the Solomani. And, your thoughts of the Zhodani exodus, was it all a way to make the Impies more accepting of Zho culture, even though the refugees would have been the target of racism.
 
Thanks Liam!

One last tag question left over: are Soleean regulars doing cadre work to upgrade the quality of their colonial buddies, or are they keeping the talent/training to themselves?

Wow, that hobbyist at Depot is a hell of a thing: great idea though. Let virus do what it loves...

I think we got into speculation on the Regency's likely "wildside" line of advance at one point, but I'd still like to hear what you have to say concerning Kafka's post.

(Glad you made it off Aubaine in one piece: did you bring back any seashells?)
 
Originally posted by kafka47:
Liam,

Just checked out your sites. They look mighty grand.

Well thank you, frere Kafka! Thats a mighty nice thing to say. yessir.

What are your thoughts regarding the future of Spinward States and the fate of Avery (both in his fictional incarnation and real).

My speculation of the Spinward States (those on the spinward side of the Regency) mirrors that of MJD's. Avery's fate (fictional) is between MWM & MJD.

Also, as a heretic in charge what would you like see as the fate of the far Rimward colonies of the Solomani.

The Far rimward colonies of the Solomani, these being which ones? Please clarify ser.

And, your thoughts of the Zhodani exodus, was it all a way to make the Impies more accepting of Zho culture, even though the refugees would have been the target of racism.
Click to expand...
If it was a DN "cleverness/plot device" in the GDW Regency, I am unaware of it being so. Without re-opening the DN can of worms (I shall refrain, please follow suit!).
I believe he meant well, but it too results in tearing down the last great Human Govt untouched by Virus, and throws them at the feet of the Regency Imperials to show they are humans not "mind-ripping Zho-Scum".

I do NOT believe the Empress Wave is as bad as some feared: I do believe it has SOME affect on Psionic folks. And in a society of democratically run Psi's over a non psi prole group (the masses), it would seem to me this temporary insanity/ etc affects causes loss of control..
coupled with the sieve like borders with the Vargr Extants keeping VIRUS at bay...A panic of sorts ensues. If those responsible for such orderly day- to day law/ order/ general welfare are stricken, what happens?

Picture this: When the shepherds go mad and toss themselves off a cliff, or never return to work, what happens to the flock? Depends on the herd, and the predators, and external threats.

Well we're talking Zhodani proletariat here...
Some will panic and rush around. Many talented and mid level managerial types might actually be forced to assume leadership roles.
This tumult of temporary anarchy, possible civil strife caused, etc, could bring about small series of civil wars in ZHo subsectors..into which a once well guarded border vs Virus becomes porous... and the horrors of that..well, we've seen what they did in the former Imperial "Safes" yes?

So the ZHodani exodus isn't just IMHO, a result of the empress wave-its one of several factors leading to it.

A darker thought occurred to me as I was writing:
Perhaps they sought to end Psionics in general with this EW affect? Mighty big Game club to wield. Hmmm.

I could go on about this seeming to wish to destroy/ tear down all that was, and rebuild upon the foundation of ashes vision that DN had. But I won't.
It has been done to death. Fresh vision, and more control over the collapse is called for. Less Magic wand waving!
And MJD is the lead horse in that race.
 
Originally posted by Arsulon:
Thanks Liam!

Well, Arsulon, yer mighty welcome ser. ;)

One last tag question left over: are Soleean regulars doing cadre work to upgrade the quality of their colonial buddies, or are they keeping the talent/training to themselves?

Soleean Regulars are doing the Cadre work (ala Vietnam/ Angola/ etc), in some cases even troops from Kmak. Depends on how badly the Soleeans want it.

Wow, that hobbyist at Depot is a hell of a thing: great idea though. Let virus do what it loves...

Judging from the see-saw campaign over Depots from Final War, and its eventual shut down and mothballing, MT resources say it had no GG. TNE astrography of OE sez it does in Ultraneta. Well, I wen t with the latter. Given the fact margaret's folks had retracted back to an Outland's frontier, and were the last power holding it, they'd mothballed almost all of the LS & habitats, and what ships they and the Solomani did not take out of there.
Hence, Virus could only infect a few things "operational" when it arrived insystem in 1130. Given that the nearest other Depot in Delphi was in a Safe at Virus's arrival, it seemed to me that a Mother Virus Tanker/Mobile repair dock looking for parts, would seek out another place when the squabbling lead to destruction, etc between other AI-Vampire ships..
The Depot's (all of them) Automated ShipYard was part of the Strephon cache rebuild the Imperium programe's of Extreme Top Shelf secrecy. Run By a TL-16+ AI (like the ones in SM). Part of what Pete Gray of TNE list fame called called "Project Valhalla".
The Jumpstart caches, and secrets to activate these things went with Avery on Arrival Vengeance to the Regency in 1128.


at Ultraneta/Jayna/Old expanses, the Tanker Ephesus ("Mother-E")arrived and awoke "D-Yard"..,
http://www.downport.com/~bard/bard/opal/opal3052.html


I think we got into speculation on the Regency's likely "wildside" line of advance at one point, but I'd still like to hear what you have to say concerning Kafka's post.

(Glad you made it off Aubaine in one piece: did you bring back any seashells?)
Click to expand...
Yar! Got me this here Hiver tattoo after gettin a wee tanked at this beach front bar.. ;) :eek: :mad: in Vrasstadt..
(LOL-Just kidding!)
 
At the risk of providing unwanted input, he is what I see happening in the Spinward States.

The polities with the greatest changes are the Regency and the Zhodani.

We know that the Regency will implode. The reason I can see for this is that the Norris started massive, deep and far reaching changes that have incredible inertia against them. To succeed, the leader has to be an incredibly powerful personage. Norris was that powerful. However, his protegy were not. His lingering power helped keep things in line for a generation or two, but after that, it just spins apart.

Basically, the Regency was driven by a cult of personality, and the current person is not strong enough to keep the cult.

I do hope, however, that a remnant of the Regency will survive, centered on Regina. It would be a small pocket empire about 2 subsectors in size, working hard (and successfully within these borders) to keep the flame and the ideals of Norris.

As Liam said, what happens to the Zhodani depends on the cause of the Exodus. One paper I saw postulated that the result of the Empress Wave was the introduction of religion in the "god-less" Consulate. That would be interesting. My guess is that whatever the problem is, it will be muted by MJD. The Consulate will survive, mostly intact, but I can't even guess as to its form in 1248.

For the Aslan, I don't know. By any rules set, it is pretty much impossible for them to have encroached as far as they have in the Trojan Reaches and Marches. But there they are. I imagine they will have their existing footholds firmed, but won't progress any farther, even with the fall of the Regency.

It could be pretty cool to center a small empire on Glisten. It would be a combined human/Aslan empire with barbarian Aslan. (The Aslan in the empire decide that it is more profitable to work with the pinkies than to constantly fight them.)

The Vargr probably got rolled by the Virus, and will have to recover like everyone else outside the Spinward States. I am sure they cause lots of problems with the Regina Republic, the Zhodani and the various independent planets to coreward.

The two minor powers, the Darrians and the Sword Worlds, probably have a chance to flourish. Both have more than proven their capabilities to operate in a "vacuum", and should both be able to prosper with the removal of the Regency and effective removal of the Consulate.

The Sword Worlds, especially, would have a chance to regain some of their former "glory". I do imagine, however, that there would probably be two confederations: one that is a "classic" confederation; the other is a "progressive" confederation that retains some of its Regency/Imperial influences.
 
Daryen,

I disagree with you about the Regency imploding, but let me make it clear I DON'T consider your opinion "unwanted": one of the fun things about TNE being orphaned is that we can speculate freely on what might have been.

I agree that the Regency was founded on a cult of personality but I think the Norrian reforms have suceeded in stabilizing society. With the creation of an upper and lower house in government, you now have an empowered and driven public who KNOW they have a say/vested interest in the government. When it was simply an aristocratic oligarchy I think the citizenry would (naturally) adopt a passive, bystander stance: alternately jeering and cheering their favorite figures in government but having as little effect on policy as a sport enthusiast has on the outcome of a game. I think the reforms, coupled with the failure of the personality cult, have forced the Denebians to grow up and forge their own destiny, albeit along the lines of Norris' energizing dream.

The economy IS overheating but the natural release valve for all that pressure is Corridor. More than ever (judging from the results of the previous polls) the citizens of the Regency seem to think it's time to take the torch of Imperial civilization into the wildside: contact and colonization will open up vast new markets and foster healthy competition along the way. I see the Regency as Great Britain at the beginning of the 18th century, ready to found what historian Simon Schama called "the empire of trade."

The above observations are based on logic, but that doesn't mean I don't have my own visceral hopes and dreams for the Regency based on my sense of drama. I loved the Spinward Marches from CT to MT but I seriously didn't think it'd survive the Civil War and virus. Before TNE appeared I thought, with all the talk of "star vikings" and the historical paralells implied, the Regency would go the way of Byzantium. I thought by the New Era they'd have either been overwhelmed by the Zhodani/Persians/Turks or else have degenerated into mean, tyrannical, authoritarian version of the Imperium as a result of all the pressures being put on them. I was shocked and delighted by the Keepers of the Flame book (especially considering how DN had inflated the RC.) I'm not sure what MJD has planned for the Regency, but I just hope it's dramatic. I don't mind if it's destroyed: just as long as it's in a fittingly spectacular fashion. Something that grandiose has to go with a bang, not a whimper.
 
Originally posted by Arsulon:
Daryen,

I disagree with you about the Regency imploding, but let me make it clear I DON'T consider your opinion "unwanted": one of the fun things about TNE being orphaned is that we can speculate freely on what might have been.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Actually, I had originally agreed with you. But MJD has definitively stated the Regency will die before 1248.

Given that, the only reason I can think of for the end is the cult of personality thing. That the changes Norris made did NOT really go as deep as thought, and it eventually "unspun".

BTW, I don't buy the "overheated economy" thing. The Regency is big enough to support whatever economy is necessary, in a self-sufficient manner. As long as there is an interstellar economy in the Regency (and as long as there is a Regency), the economy would be fine. There just isn't any way for it to "overheat".

I'm not sure what MJD has planned for the Regency, but I just hope it's dramatic. I don't mind if it's destroyed: just as long as it's in a fittingly spectacular fashion. Something that grandiose has to go with a bang, not a whimper.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, MJD has tipped his hand regarding the Regency. But just because I used the word "implode" doesn't mean it won't be spectacular. Besides which, on its way down (or maybe just after), the Regency does fulfill its duty and provide fleets in support of Humaniti's defense.

Who knows, maybe sending those fleets is what finally ends it for the Regency. Without them, it is unable to keep itself together. They probably know this, but decide the defense of Humaniti is a greater need than their survival.

I think MJD will make it work out well. The Regency will end, but I trust it will be a heroic end.
 
Liam:

Those far Rimward colonies are noted in Cats & Rats. They seem to have been isolated from the rest of the Sphere existing as sort of like Pocket Empires but connected to mainstream Solomani culture they date back to the Interstellar Wars, when they acted as a reserve or buffer.
 
From various topics etc, I think that MJD has the regency coming apart reasonably gently following great exertion in various wars, and forming 3 reasonable sized pocket empires and numerous friendly non aligned planets with a common imperial heritage in between.

But yes, I think they are heroic.

Cheers
Richard
 
"From various topics etc, I think that MJD has the regency coming apart reasonably gently following great exertion in various wars, and forming 3 reasonable sized pocket empires and numerous friendly non aligned planets with a common imperial heritage in between."


Sir,

I too think Mr. Dougherty will handle the end of the Regency splendidly, but this thread is the first inkling I've had that he has dropped hints regarding his plans for M:1248.

Where can those hints, sneak peeks, and whatnot be found? I simply can't wait! ;)


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
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