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Skipping Out With Military Warships

RainOfSteel

SOC-14 1K
I've been reading David Weber's The Shadow of Saganami.

It just occurred to me that I've been reading elements in this ongoing storyline about the military forces of Haven running deserting with their warships. And we're not talking small ones, either. They then turn pirate for a living.

Does anyone see any reason why the space navies of the OTU wouldn't see similar desertions from time to time?

What does it mean for planetary navies when there is a possibility of heavy cruisers or even larger showing up and acting in a piratical manner?

IMTU, in the Imperium, even poor subsectors can usually deploy one medium cruiser as a patrol ship per world. But not everyone runs their set up in this manner. The more typical OTU set up involves a dozen or fewer SDBs. The canon 400 dTon SDB would be useless against a cruiser level pirate.

Has anyone given this much thought? Does this sort of thing "just not happen" in YTU?
 
Not too much in MTU, mostly because there are so few places to get the needed parts for the really big and high tech ones, and if you go rogue with one of the smaller mid to low tech ones you are dead meat when (not if) the IN catches up to you.

That said I did have an NPC who did just this, went pirate with an IN Cruiser (mid tech, mid size) after a dispute with command. More of a Robin Hood template than anything, not meant to encourage PCs to try the same, but there as a McGuffin if needed.

Pirating for a living needs a support structure comparable with the ship(s) doing the pirating and PCs won't (usually) have those kind of contacts, heck only a very few rare NPCs should imo. Haven't read the stories (but may, so no big spoilers please
) so I'm not sure how they justify what sounds like a whole fleet breaking up into individual lone operators. Or do they mostly stay grouped (which has it's own compromises). Maybe the ship's of Weber's universe don't need support but those of mine do, and lots of it
 
The same thing that kept frigates of the Royal Navy from going rogue.
1) Getting the crew to agree would be tough. Apart from loyalty, a lieutenant who takes the ship back can write his own ticket. Just disablng the ship is an easy route to a commanders stripes.
2) Getting an ex-Imperial pirate will call for a maximum effort by the IN, even bringing in resources from out-sector.

Planetary navies that lose their planets don't have these limitations.
 
Planet A has a dispute with planet B.

Each side hires mercs to conduct surgical raids.

Things escalate and planet A uses its planetary navy to load up its armed forces and heavily defeats planet B.

The planetary navy ships of B that survive refuse to surrender to the new regime imposed on planet B by planet A and instead take their ships and begin... doing stuff ;)
 
Any warship that goes "rogue" will have to find some kind of sponsor very quickly. There's no way to get the specialized parts and support a real warship would need except to have someone (some organization, that is) that serves as a "front" to purchase and deliver the needed spares and munitions.
 
Ships rarely operate alone. Not only do you have to persuade the crew to go along*, you've also got to keep it a secret from the rest of the squadron/fleet until you can jump away.


*Actually, thinking about it, you only really need the Captain and XO. The rest of the crew might not even notice until it's too late. "Ours not to reason why..."
 
IIRC, this sort of thing became slightly more common in the Hard Times period of the Rebellion, as quite a few starship crews decided they were fighting for the wrong side, and simply went their own way rather than switching sides. There were also worlds in the wilds and outlands whose governments failed for various reasons, and sometimes their surviving naval forces would turn rogue.

All of these could be considered "special cases", as the Hard Times campaign environment was designed to emphasize the chaos of the Rebellion era, and all kinds of Bad Things were going on.

XO
 
Quite a few excellent ideas here for a naval adventure.

1. While out on a patrol, your ships home world is attacked by a war virus, 100% lethal. Up to six possible planet states responsible for the destruction.

2. Virus infects the ship computer. The ship fires on other fleet units before jumping out. The crew is still on board fighting for control of the ship. The ship is now branded as a virus vampire.

3. The Captain recieves sealed orders, and sends the ship on a privateer raid deep in enemy held territory. The Captain is killed in a hit that also destroys the sealed orders leaving the PCs in charge, deep in enemy territory, with a wounded ship.

4. The civilian leadership of the ships multiplanet coalition splits in a civil war. Polititians, Superior officers, Industrialists all try to get the loyalty of as many ships as they can.

5. The fleet Admiral has obiously defected to the other side, ordering all fleet elements to join him in going over to the Zhodani.

6. While away on a mission, the fleet returns to an empire that has ruled it outlaw due to outrageous acts supposedly perpertrated while away. The "crimes" are claimed by polititians who used the scandal to get themselves voted into office and jail the old administration.
 
A TNE thought IMTU, gov'ts take the opportunity to sieze vessels any reason. However, its important that they don't undermine trade. Stolen vessels are a favorite.

Warships stolen are truely prized. Best kept by have pirate support of some sort...

You could always do an Under Siege, steal from a shipyard or depot... have a crew go crazy from experimental drugs, fall into enemy hands (claws, whatever)...

All are fun.
Savage

Savage
 
Greetings and salutations,

An easy way to keep your naval officers from skipping out with the ship is to spread the rumor that the government has emplaced an explosive device (or something that would disable it) on the ship. This can be instilled duriong academy training when government-types come in and thank all the new cadets. Some time during their third year and again before they are posted to a ship, they are treated to a demonstration of the device.

Little do they know that the ship that is used during the demonstration has been slated to be destroyed. A team of demolition experts and computer techs (looking like a normal repair crew and such) wired it with explosives the previous day and infected the computer system with a virus.

None are the wiser and the navy keeps its ships without actually resorting to having to really put explosives and computer viruses on the ships before their actual destruction.

"Let's go instill loyalty and fear into the cadets and new officers."
file_22.gif
 
Has anyone here read "The Hunt on Red October"?

*** Warning: Spoilers ahead! ***

The officers of a Soviet Boomber (ballistic missile submarine), the newest model of the Red Fleet, decide to defect to the US with their boat. Once out of port, the captain kills the political officer and then tells the crew their mission is to test US defenses by getting as close to the US East Coast as possible.
Some distance off the coast, the chief engineer rigs the nuclear plant´s warning system to declare a fake radiation warning, to get the crew off the boat. The officers stasy inside "to sink the boat so the Americans don´t get their hands on it".


A variation of this could be a good plan for defecting with a space warship.
 
Not read the book, but the film's great. I was thinking about it when I mentioned only needing the Captain & XO to be in on the plot.
 
^ I put together an adventure inspired by HfRO where the design team skips out with a proto-type warship equipped with an experimental super weapon. The ship is nearly as fantastic as the Andromeda Ascendant with cloaking shields, uber-armor, voice activated controls, and a singularity launcher as a primary weapon; a real keeper!

The designers knew the proto-type would turn the tide of the cold war and spark a hot war, being even too dangerous for the developers to wield responsibly.

The players got involved when the designers were attempting to run the border and hide the ship (and its plans) from eventual capture by either side. The designers knew very well how to operate the ship but not how to fight the ship. That's where the players, all ex-Navy and Scouts, became integral to the plot. They were enlisted by the design team to help with the get away. But just as they start to become familiar with this wonder of technology, the pursuit fleet arrives ...

During the ensuing battle, the proto-type performs suberbly with destroyers and cruisers disappearing into pocket universes left and right at each salvo from the singularity cannon. Then the big guns come into play; but going blow for blow with a couple of meson battleships was too much for the little giant killer.

In a final, dying blow, the crew used the singularity cannon against a nearby battleship closing to board. The super weapon vaporized a huge section of the behemoth, creating a expanding cloud of plasma and exotic sub-atomic particles.

The tremendous backlash of energy impacting on the singularity weapon caused a catastrophic overload (creating a mini-blackhole that sucked the remaining enemy units into oblivion), with barely enough time for the crew to miraculously escape the collapsing gravity well before physics prevailed.

So the crew got their ship of the line and used against other capitol ships, only to lose it in a glorious battle; what else could they want?
 
Greetings and salutations,

Something like that, the captain should have went down with the ship. His name would have went down in history.
 
IMTU the early merchant houses controlled almost all offworld trade and starships. The ConFederation gradually assumed loose control but nothing near the centralized system that would stop pirates. Crews were always shopping around for a better deal, only stopped by the merchant's own internal security forces or interstellar disgust over their activities. Using a nuke to settle a trade war doesn't make friends fast.

By the time of the Dominion (late 23rd century), there were substantial navel assets in place, under a centralized government. The presence of Loyalty Officers, similar to the Soviet political officers, assured an eye and ear in place to ensure adherence to Dominion policies. Along with ruthless suppression of uncontrolled entities, any ship trying to go rogue would have fleet assets after it in a big hurry.
 
For those mentioning special needs of a warship, I ask, "Like what?" What is really overly special about a warship that you couldn't maintain it the same way you maintain a far-trader?

I know part of the issue is the "piracy" angle, but a warship of decent size could commandeer a highport when neccesary - not every system has a SDB force willing to take on a big, mean, and nasty.

As far as getting away with it? It would be really hard to maintain opsec and take over the ship. Warships have large enough crews you would need to involve somebody besides the CO/XO. So, you would have to spring it on some folks while you were outsystem (with absolute certainty beforehand they would go along), then ruthlessly eliminate dissenters.

Of course, the reason it works in the Peep navy (Honorverse) and the Soviet sub is because of long lines of communication (Traveller :D ) and a very rigid political/command structure on board (NOT Traveller :( ).
 
Well, it says in the (T20) rules that, strictly speaking, only the pilot and chief engineer are needed to fly the ship. Okay, on big ships you´ll need a few more hands, but what it boils down to is this: most crew members of a warship are needed for one of two purposes

1. Combat (including Marines, gunners, sensor and fire control crews, and small craft)
2. Maintenance and Repair (this includes physicians/medics, who maintain and repair the "human inventory" of the warship)

To steal a warship you would not need the Combat crew, at least if the ship is on solitary patrol or detached duty or something.
Also, you wouldn´t need much in the way of Maintenance and Repair in the short run.

If I wanted to skip out with my own warship, I´d do something along the lines of this:
I´d make sure the officers (at least most of them) are on my side, maybe a few select crewmen too. Close to a planet or space station I´d fake an emergency situation that would force the crew to abandon ship, but remain aboard with my fellow mutineers - "to keep the ship from blowing up until the lifeboats are at a safe distance" or something like that.
Then I´d arrange for something spectacular to blow up outside the ship, between the ship and the planet, to momentarily hide the ship from view. I´d use that distraction to jump out to another system where a new crew for the ship - pirates, mercenaries, rebels, whatever are already waiting to take the ship over.


@Andrew:
I guess that, if the ship is of a sufficiently high TL, one could always dismantle it and sell the parts to pirates for enough money to acquire a fleet of smaller, less conspicuous, easier to maintain pirate ships. Or sell the ship to some foreign power.
 
^ In the case of chopping a stolen warship, you could probably outfit a flotilla of small pirate ships with the armor, armament, and supplies in just one large warship. And then you'd still have a whole lot of useful bits and scrap metals left over. Even as scrap, it's 100% profit.

Your pirate flotilla could probably live off the carcass for a lengthy period of time, even using it as a base of operations.
 
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