Shipping containers

[JAFARR]

Don't know if this should be here or in one of the other forums as I can see it fitting in 3 different areas.

When we talk about freight and cargo lots, they are listed as x ton lots. What does this mean? The lot occupies x dtons? I assume that it means the cargo is in appropriate containers that occupy x dtons. If it needs nothing but the structure for holding it together from one location to the next, something like a sea/land semi-trailer would work. On the other hand, perishable goods might need an air conditioning system to maintain a given temperature range and/or atmospheric pressure. I envision some standard shipping containers in 1 dton and 5 dton sizes. Larger sizes would be multiples of 5 dtons. Cargo holds have clamping connections to lock them down to the deck and power connections if needed for the climate controlled type. As a carrier, no need to worry about cost, shipper takes care of that. However, if you acquire some spec cargo, you may also end up being the shipper and have to rent/lease a (some) container(s). As these are standard items, they would be available at all C class or higher starports. I see them being used like rental cars in that you can rent them at one place and drop them off at another. My question is what the rental schedule should be? A flat rate per dton per jump? A flat rate per ton per time? A variable rate? Anyone have a reasonable ideas?

 

[stealth]

cargo pallet, half cube, and cube!

Standard for small shipping, google "wiki cargo cube". That box truck (an air-raft on wheels), hold 2 half-cubes, or four palletes.

Anaything else you wan't to ask a pirate?

 

[stealth]

The way we did it....

Don't know if this should be here or in one of the other forums as I can see it fitting in 3 different areas.

When we talk about freight and cargo lots, they are listed as x ton lots. What does this mean? The lot occupies x dtons? I assume that it means the cargo is in appropriate containers that occupy x dtons. If it needs nothing but the structure for holding it together from one location to the next, something like a sea/land semi-trailer would work. On the other hand, perishable goods might need an air conditioning system to maintain a given temperature range and/or atmospheric pressure. I envision some standard shipping containers in 1 dton and 5 dton sizes. Larger sizes would be multiples of 5 dtons. Cargo holds have clamping connections to lock them down to the deck and power connections if needed for the climate controlled type. As a carrier, no need to worry about cost, shipper takes care of that. However, if you acquire some spec cargo, you may also end up being the shipper and have to rent/lease a (some) container(s). As these are standard items, they would be available at all C class or higher starports. I see them being used like rental cars in that you can rent them at one place and drop them off at another. My question is what the rental schedule should be? A flat rate per dton per jump? A flat rate per ton per time? A variable rate? Anyone have a reasonable ideas?

All cubes where self contained, some where sealed. I once worked in a warehouse on a rail line moving palletes, including some marked "red ball express" holding weapons for early Iraq war 2. All palletes fit on a fork life, but in the future we use the cargo loaders from "Aliens". They stack in order of delivery into cubes and half-cubes.

Warehousing is cheap, people leave stuff for weeks, and moving a car from Europe to America cost about $200 in shipping back then.

Rental space on a cube in a warehouse was about $50 a month eight years ago...

Also, aarrgh....

 

[Spinward Scout]

You could go with sea transport cargo containers. Which is what you see on the highway sometimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_container

Or you could go with air freight containers (which seem to come in 50 million sizes).

http://www.ups.com/aircargo/using/services/services/domestic/svc-containers.html

http://www.aircontainer.com/

Depends on how cargo is handled IYTU (aboard the ship that's transporting the cargo). I don't know if there's ever been anything official written about it. Maybe something in Merchant Princes.

This might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo

Personally, I'd go with the air freight cargo containers for anything in space. Much easier to move around.

Hope that helped.

 

[veltyen]

Talking about standard containers, a standard 40 foot container is approximately 10 dTon 2.4x2.8x12 from memory - not disimilar to a 3x3x15 10 dTon container. That's what I tend to use. It helps that you can point them out on the roads frequently.

The half size 3x3x7.5 (5 dTon) is also quite common. As are the 2dTon 3x3x3.

 

[Icosahedron]

Hiring a container would be a cost that a self-shipper could probably ignore.
Lets say it costs Cr50 to hire a 5dT container for a single transit. You get 1000Cr per ton for shipping, that's 5000Cr for the goods, so the container hire is only about 1% of the cost. That's pretty negligible unless your back's to the wall.

Don't forget the very useful 2dT containers for shipping Ground Cars and the 4dT Air raft containers.

Veltyen, check your maths; the 40ft containers are around 5dT. esp if you go 12x2.5x2.5. I've been there, done that.

 

[JAFARR]

You can't ignore the cost if you need to rent it in order to load your spec cargo in them and keep it several jumps.

Like, "Hey Captain, I just found this 20 ton lot of exotic foods real cheap because they have had a bumper crop this growing season. World XYZ 2 jumps away from here was paying a premium price for this product the last time we came through here 6 months ago. Harvest time has just started here so there hasn't been a lot of time for much of it to be shipped out yet. If we get it there ahead of the regular frieght lines we can make a killing!"

I was just trying to get a reasonable rental/lease price idea.

 

[Whipsnade]

JAFARR,

GT:Far Trader describes several different types of shipping containers and flats you might find interesting. IIRC, they're also priced so you can figure rental rates from that.

IMTU you can rent most of the basic shipping containers at Class-C or better ports depending on all the usual provisos; trade volume, normal types of trade, GM whim, needs of the session, etc.

As a GM, I usually didn't bother to bother the players with shipping container issues unless I had a reason to do so. Even if the players had scored some intriguing speculative goods purchase, I usually figured the proper shipping container(s) was/were part of the price.

Occasionally, I'd throw a curveball and inflict various "dirtside" shipping issues as a way of "padding" a session or throwing roadblocks in the players' way. Pulling stevedore problems, container problems, and the like out of my GM hat were good ways to keep the players' hopping.

Sometimes and depending on the freight involved, my players resorted to open pallets and cargo nets like you see on some aircraft today.

Moving knocked down shipping containers between various starport for their operators was an everyday cargo lot IMTU. Hauling 10 of 15 dTons of loose shipping container side panels, bottoms, hinge doors, and tops for normal freighting fees was a good way to fill up that last bit of cargo hold. You wouldn't get rich, but it was better than carrying nothing.

An easy way to impose a "Nail"(1) session on the players is to present a lucrative speculative cargo which requires a specialized shipping container, a specialized shipping container that is rarely ever used at the particular port the players are currently visiting. I once remember sending my players scrambling to find cryogenic tankage so that they could safely carry a speculative item with a trade code of Fl. They eventually managed to have the proper container manufactured, which meant they didn't quite make as much money as they were planning on...


Regards,
Bill

1 - A "Nail" session refers to the old story "For The Want Of A Nail...". Your players must get something to get something to get something to get something and so on until they finally get what they were originally after. The classic Exit Visa adventure is a "Nail" session. You may also remember the old MASH episode where Hawkeye must arrange an interlocking series of loans and favors in order to get a new pair of boots. When the final favor fails, the whole scheme collapses linearly.

 

[Ran Targas]

A major advantage to cargo containers in space is the contents can be protected from vacuum if the container is sealed. Even if the contents are not sensitive to vacuum, the container still prevents inadvertent leaks or spills when gravity or atmo is lost.

IMTU, 2x2 and 3x2 containers are the most common container sizes and most tramp freighters (e.g. far traders, fat traders, etc.) are designed around maximizing cargo space to hold these containers. There are also cargo flats in the same dimensions for netted cargo. Cargo locks on the deck are designed for immobilizing these size containers. This isn't that different from how air cargo is handled currently. Larger starships, much like today's mega cargo haulers, can accomodate even larger containers, up to 50-100dT.

The Solomani use these same sizes for self contained modules (lab, med bay, troop berthing, etc.) allowing quick conversion of ships from one mission type to another.

The low berths on most of my ships are also roll on/off modules; low passengers are most often loaded into their low berths off ship, the module loaded on and plugged in, and upon reaching their destination, the module is rolled off to a medical facility for thawing them out.

 

[Mithras]

I note that the containers for UPS are all one ton or less (in Traveller terms). In particular the M1N looks to be about 1 ton, a useful size for the Traveller free trader

Or you could go with air freight containers (which seem to come in 50 million sizes).

http://www.ups.com/aircargo/using/services/services/domestic/svc-containers.html

http://www.aircontainer.com/

 

[boomslang]

IMTU, 2x2 and 3x2 containers are the most common container sizes and most tramp freighters (e.g. far traders, fat traders, etc.) are designed around maximizing cargo space to hold these containers. There are also cargo flats in the same dimensions for netted cargo. Cargo locks on the deck are designed for immobilizing these size containers. This isn't that different from how air cargo is handled currently. Larger starships, much like today's mega cargo haulers, can accomodate even larger containers, up to 50-100dT.

IMTU, I use 1dt, 5dt, 10dt, 30dt, and 60dt default sizes, with each one stackable into the footprint of the next larger size (rather like LEGO™ blocks, or ISO paper sizes, or whatever). This scale then retcons the assorted random cargo/freight tables in various rules and supplements and the resulting sizes they generate.

As you mention, IMTU cargo holds are subsequently designed to accept their capacity according to this modular scale, for efficiency. I abandoned cylindrical Cutter Modules for rectilinear ones, so a 30dt cargo block will just slide right in there in its place for carriage. Likewise, Cutter Modules themselves are often employed as variable, quick-change facilities in all sorts of vessel designs -- just pop them in and out of the hold to suit mission requirements.

The low berths on most of my ships are also roll on/off modules; low passengers are most often loaded into their low berths off ship, the module loaded on and plugged in, and upon reaching their destination, the module is rolled off to a medical facility for thawing them out.

I concur; IMTU a "low berth fitting" is a dedicated vessel socket and dock where an always-portable low berth "pod" can be plugged in for long-term operation (and where unused ones are typically stored against possible future need). The beauty of this scheme is that you can trans-ship low berth passengers as through freight, shuffling them from starship to starship until they arrive at their routing destination, without having to wake them up at the intermediate stopovers.

 

[aramis]

I use 1,2,4,6,8,10 and 12 ton containers. KCr1/Ton to buy, Cr10/ton to rent from the IMoT. Rent is Port-to-port, not time limited.

 

[Icosahedron]

I go for a logarithmic 1,2,5,10,20,... as the primary series, but there are always non-standard alternatives.

 

[david.wendelken]

I used to work for an ocean shipping firm.

Containerized cargo ships are a fairly new thing. Before that, the cargo was sent "break-bulk", i.e., non-containerized.

Official ship's manifests are very particular about containerized cargo.

You will see entries like:

1 40' Container, KNLU 6535215, STC Agricultural Tools.

The abbreviation STC stands for "said to contain". The shipping company is not claiming to know what is in the container. They received it sealed from the shipper. They are merely relating to customs what they were told.

 

[JAFARR]

I have been perusing the CT CD. Gunboats & Traders (pp 20 & 21) states that shipping containers are 3.85 tons and take up 2 deck squares each 1.5 M square. Anyone have any ideas on that one? BTW, it does not give a cost either to buy or rent.

 

[atpollard]

I have been perusing the CT CD. Gunboats & Traders (pp 20 & 21) states that shipping containers are 3.85 tons and take up 2 deck squares each 1.5 M square. Anyone have any ideas on that one? BTW, it does not give a cost either to buy or rent.

That's the size that I use.

For cost, even using starship costs, 100,000 cr x 3.85 tons = 385,000 credits to buy an indestructable version. Or 385,000 / 240 = 1605 credits per month to rent.

If you want to assume a more fragile container, divide prices by 10 like a drop tank.

 

[far-trader]

I have been perusing the CT CD. Gunboats & Traders (pp 20 & 21) states that shipping containers are 3.85 tons and take up 2 deck squares each 1.5 M square. Anyone have any ideas on that one?

I think you're misinterpreting something there. I see the 3.85tons and the deckplan graphic. Maybe it's the quality of the scan confusing things but the cargo module is shown to scale and takes up 8 squares in total (2 by 4). The 2 deck squares you refer to might be the darkened squares on the graphic of the cargo module, just a guess, which are actually 4 squares each.

In any case the standard cargo module takes up 4tons of cargo space, but is in fact just 3.85tons displacement, to allow for clearances. And presumably it will hold a little less again. Some 3.7tons if we use the same percentage of allowances.

I've never worried about the costs. With freight it's included and paid for by the shipper. With cargo it's included in the price of the purchase and sale.

 

[atpollard]

For what it is worth, a standard shipping container is roughly US$ 20,000, so use your favorite conversion factor for $ to Cr (mine is $4=1Cr) and calculate a ballpark cost (5000 credits for IMTU).

 

[Hemdian]

A few years ago I worked out the sizes of freight containers IMTU and came up with this. (The pictures are just to give an idea, I realise their relative dimensions don't match the text.) I hadn't thought to list purchase and/or rental cost of containers before, I'll have to update the article some time.

But an alternative shipping mode, one not suitable for tramp traders but used by the megacorps IMTU, is a shipping container based on the modular cutter module. Loaded into tubes on large carriers, ferried around from orbit on cutters, and moved around the larger, more advanced, starports (and beyond on a world) by a rail system reminicent of the tube system seen in Space:1999. (Writing this up has been on my ToDo list for a while.)

 

[Ran Targas]

^ Used to work for that company.