Shipboard power

[maitrejeanth]

I'm rereading "Starship operators manual" at the moment. I have owned that book since 1989, and I'm still dazzled by its depth and its quality. How sad the others books in the series never materialised !
Still, one of my questions is unanswered : how is power, meaning zillions of watts, actually generated aboard ?
We know fusion power plants burn hydrogen, generating tremendous heat. But how is this heat converted into electricity ?
I can't really imagine today's method of heat exchanger + steam turbine + alternator being used. Simply not efficient enough for the requested power.
So, how does it happen ?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Heat pump.

I would think electricity would be the primary business of power transmission but I would hope that there is a more efficient way of heat exchange by then. I don't believe burning Hydrogen is an appropiate method of Fusion, with that you get water, I understood that with Fusion of Hydrogen you get a derivation of Helium. (What would you do with all the Hellium generated is something else that needs to be considered.)

 

[vermeylenhans]

First fusion is not burning. When you burn hydrogen (and oxygen) you do a chemical reaction (2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H20), meaning you makes new molecules by re-arranging the existing atoms, but atoms remain what they are. Fusion, on the other hand is an atomic reaction, meaning you makes new atoms, in this case you fuse two hydrogen to get a single helium. And trendemous amounts of power.

What do we do with all that helium? Actually there isn't that much helium. Neither do we use much hydrogen. The fuel requierments of such a drive (and its exhausts) would be some pounds a year if that much.

One alternative to steam turbine + alternator is a magneto-hydrodynamic turbine. Basicaly, instead of heating water steam and having it pass trough a mechanical turbine to produce electricity, you superheat a gaz to plasma (a plasma is basicaly a gaz where the molecules have been broken down to ions, thanks to the heat provided) and have it pass trough a magnetic field, between electrodes. The charged particules of the plasma moving at high speed in the magnetic field will induce a tension difference between the electrodes. You've got the power! You still have an heat exchanger, but you replaced both the turbine and alternator by a single component (and no moving parts). So, why aren't we using it. MHD isn't efficient at low powers, but zillions of watts (whatever a zillion is) should make the system affordable.

Captain, I already explained you the last one. You're not listening!

 

[maitrejeanth]

MHDs, like in 2300 AD !
Why sure...I wasn't certain they were canonical (your mother...err..doesn't work in english I'm afraid

) in CT/GT/T20 etc....

Did I already ask that question, S2 ? Really ?

MHDs R OK 4 MTU. No quotes like "montée en puissance des turbines, capitaine" during our next session.

 

[vermeylenhans]

It's called an MHD-turbine, captain.

 

[vermeylenhans]

I dare: "Canonique-ta-mère!"

 

[Rotters2]

I dunno about the rest of the fleet, but the Vladimir Prestovic works quite well on Gerbil power

Actually, in truth the question never occurred to me.... I just sorta accepted that if the rules way it works, then that's good enough for me.. (besides, I have the technical engineering ability of a house plant, so just leave the thinking to the guys with egg on their hats). Although it is quite interesting.

 

[maitrejeanth]

(besides, I have the technical engineering ability of a house plant, --------------------
Errr.... insert funny remark here...

Let'see... ah : "well, as long it's a house POWER plant, you should be ok ''"

Second try, maybe ???

 

[Rotters2]

Power plant... oh dear... And I thought I was bad......

Very good though, mate. I'll pay that one

 

[robject]

For anyone interested, here's an article I liked which makes a good argument for CNO fusion being used in Traveller's ships, and suggests ways the fusion generates power, and how one might go about sabotaging said power plant:

http://traveller.mu.org/house/fusion.html

 

[coldwar]

What Basically happens in Fusion Power Plant Hydrogen is Actually warmed up in a ring Case to form Plasma energy, When it gets to the correct Heat it starts causeing a magnetic field, In bewteen the rings is a turning piece of coiled wire(LOTS AND LOTS OF WIRE AND MANY COILS)This does cause alot of Joules(Form Electricity in Watts)
This is what Goverments and scientists will be making in the Future,(Pridicted) but there is one problem, its not the waste as the can turn it back to water, but it is Stabilising the Reactions and protecting the Plasma from Oxygen otherwise the station becomes a Fusion BOMB(the type would be a H-BOMB, Kills people but does'nt harm structures)

 

[Straybow]

A quick calc I did in the Going Pirate thread showed that D-D fusion of the naturally occuring fraction of D could supply the power levels (250MW/EP) from Traveller fuel consumption.

 

[Drakon]

MDH is one method. I think that by that time there will be the equivalent of solar cells surrounding the reactor, translating the gamma energy released by fusion into electricy.

And of course, the methods are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Rotters2]

Does anyone else reduce the size and fuel consumption of their power plants, dependent on the relevant TL of the design/construction?

I don't know if it's in keeping with the thread. My old party had an engineer in it (as in the player was an engineer, not the character...), and we were designing ships together for the HVC (my pocket empire).

We sort of rationalised that a 2002 built 1.6 litre engine generates more KW than a 1950 1.6 litre entine, and that for the same power output, we can use a much smaller - and lighter - engine than we could 50 years ago......

So we sort then continued that in the future, and said "Well, if a TL 10 Power plant develops X power, and weighs Y tons.... why wouldn't a TL 13 power plant produce X power, but be smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient?"

Does that make sense? (it did to us). It's all very IMTU, but we came up with that for every TL above A, the same output can be provided by a Power Plant/Jump Drive/Manouvre Drive, but for 10% less size and fuel consumption.

Your thoughts everyone?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Surely all the rules already have higher TL PPs being more efficient?

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Deathwisher:
What Basically happens in Fusion Power Plant Hydrogen is Actually warmed up in a ring Case to form Plasma energy, When it gets to the correct Heat it starts causeing a magnetic field, In bewteen the rings is a turning piece of coiled wire(LOTS AND LOTS OF WIRE AND MANY COILS)This does cause alot of Joules(Form Electricity in Watts)

<snip>

I'm confused.

Doesn't the fusion plant have to generate a powerful magnetic field to support the heated plasma and keep it away from the walls of the torroid it is contained in?

Also, I'm not sure exactly what is meant by "in between the rings".

I tried to answer this for myself, but 30 minutes of googling about found plenty of fusion plant cut-aways and lots of claims for readiness of ITER and a lot of other information, but I didn't come across an actual specific description of how they plan to generate the electicity.

If you could elaborate, I'd appreciate it.