Second ed erratta?
- Thread starter Lexx
- Start date
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello Lexx,
I'm still trying to figure out the ranges by using VE2, though I haven't managed the feat yet. However, one probable reason for 1/2d and Max ranges being the same is that both weapons use rocket assisted ammo. According to GURPS: Ultra Tech p. 46 "Gyroc Ammunition - Since they are porpelled by a rocket motor, gyrocs have a flat trajectory and a long 1/2D range. They lose velocity fast when the motor burns out, so maximum range is not much longer." In VE2 range is rounded to 2 digits, if Max Range less than 55 yards, the range would be rounded to 50. OF course I may be out to lunch on this, but so far this is my best answer.
I'm still trying to figure out the ranges by using VE2, though I haven't managed the feat yet. However, one probable reason for 1/2d and Max ranges being the same is that both weapons use rocket assisted ammo. According to GURPS: Ultra Tech p. 46 "Gyroc Ammunition - Since they are porpelled by a rocket motor, gyrocs have a flat trajectory and a long 1/2D range. They lose velocity fast when the motor burns out, so maximum range is not much longer." In VE2 range is rounded to 2 digits, if Max Range less than 55 yards, the range would be rounded to 50. OF course I may be out to lunch on this, but so far this is my best answer.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening Lexx,
I still have not figured out how the 10mm Snub Revolver or Auto Snub Pistol 1/2D and Max Ranges were computed, so I made a post on the JTAS Design board over at SJG. Hopefully, someone there will give us a clear answer.
Darn web germlins always messing with my posts. I just added the word "not." I swear it was there when I typed the message
.
I still have not figured out how the 10mm Snub Revolver or Auto Snub Pistol 1/2D and Max Ranges were computed, so I made a post on the JTAS Design board over at SJG. Hopefully, someone there will give us a clear answer.
Darn web germlins always messing with my posts. I just added the word "not." I swear it was there when I typed the message
.snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening Lexx,
I have some feedback from the JTAS Design discussion board, but I am waiting for permission from Onno Meyer to forward a document he has put together. While I am waiting can you read a MS Word Document? Can you accept a Word document attachment, or are they blocked? Also, could you please send me an email, so that if I get permission I can forward the document to you? Now onto my findings:
On GT2e p. 110, Column 1, last entry describes Snub pistols and accelerator rifles. The text indicates that the weapons have a very short range that is ideal for the use on the hull or inside a starship. Under the header of "Design Your Own!" on p. 111 bottom of Column 1 the weapons described in GT are modified from CT: Striker and MegaTraveller.
As I indicated in a previous post GURPS Ultra-Tech also stated that the weapons were very short range, which matches with the GT2e description. Additionally the text in Ultra-Tech stated that the projectile trajectory was flat, which resulted in 1/2D and Max ranges being nearly the same.
Please understand that the rest of my comments are based on my understanding of VE2e, which might be different from yours.
Using Vehicles 2e, I can get a 1/2D Range of 44 yards, which is rounded to 2 digits. Max Range is based on a "moderately flat trajectory", from VE2e p. 105 first sentence under Maximum Range (Max) header. The "moderately flat trajectory" would return a range of a Max range of 640 yards. However, a nearly flat or flat trajectory, should result in nearly identical 1/2D and Max ranges since the rocket propellant is exhausted after a given amount of time.
The above is what I have figured out, which could very well be out to lunch. I'll keep digging and perhaps come up with calculations to support my guesses.
I have some feedback from the JTAS Design discussion board, but I am waiting for permission from Onno Meyer to forward a document he has put together. While I am waiting can you read a MS Word Document? Can you accept a Word document attachment, or are they blocked? Also, could you please send me an email, so that if I get permission I can forward the document to you? Now onto my findings:
On GT2e p. 110, Column 1, last entry describes Snub pistols and accelerator rifles. The text indicates that the weapons have a very short range that is ideal for the use on the hull or inside a starship. Under the header of "Design Your Own!" on p. 111 bottom of Column 1 the weapons described in GT are modified from CT: Striker and MegaTraveller.
As I indicated in a previous post GURPS Ultra-Tech also stated that the weapons were very short range, which matches with the GT2e description. Additionally the text in Ultra-Tech stated that the projectile trajectory was flat, which resulted in 1/2D and Max ranges being nearly the same.
Please understand that the rest of my comments are based on my understanding of VE2e, which might be different from yours.
Using Vehicles 2e, I can get a 1/2D Range of 44 yards, which is rounded to 2 digits. Max Range is based on a "moderately flat trajectory", from VE2e p. 105 first sentence under Maximum Range (Max) header. The "moderately flat trajectory" would return a range of a Max range of 640 yards. However, a nearly flat or flat trajectory, should result in nearly identical 1/2D and Max ranges since the rocket propellant is exhausted after a given amount of time.
The above is what I have figured out, which could very well be out to lunch. I'll keep digging and perhaps come up with calculations to support my guesses.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello Lexx,
Your are very welcome, however I must thank-you for your post, since the question allows me another way to learn how VE2 works.
Another member of the JTAS community, Martin Heidemann, has offered a slightly different suggestion on the range issue than Onno Meyer. In brief, I will repost his comments here when I get his permission, the ammo is designed using VE2 Launcher, Torpedo, and Missile design rules, pp. 113 to 122, as an unguided missile.
Your are very welcome, however I must thank-you for your post, since the question allows me another way to learn how VE2 works.
Another member of the JTAS community, Martin Heidemann, has offered a slightly different suggestion on the range issue than Onno Meyer. In brief, I will repost his comments here when I get his permission, the ammo is designed using VE2 Launcher, Torpedo, and Missile design rules, pp. 113 to 122, as an unguided missile.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening Lexx,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on the snub 1/2D and Max range issue. The weapons are intended for use either on the surface or interior of a starship or similar structure. Max range is going to be calculated for the standard corridor length. The 1/2D range is based on the thrust provided by the motor for a given time. If the motor provides thrust to cover the length of the corridor then the two ranges are going to be the same. This is not official, but at lest my guess may be close. On the other hand I could be out in a field somewhere .
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on the snub 1/2D and Max range issue. The weapons are intended for use either on the surface or interior of a starship or similar structure. Max range is going to be calculated for the standard corridor length. The 1/2D range is based on the thrust provided by the motor for a given time. If the motor provides thrust to cover the length of the corridor then the two ranges are going to be the same. This is not official, but at lest my guess may be close. On the other hand I could be out in a field somewhere
.
TJP
SOC-12
Well, in the 1st edition of GT, Snub Pistols are definitely *not* gyroc weapons. On p.111 under Design Your Own! they're described as being designed as "TL8 10mm conventional rifled very short barrel extra-low-power revolver/fast autoloader". On the weapon tables (p.114) the ranges for both the 10mm Snub Revolver and 10mm Auto Snub Pistol are listed as 1/2D = 80 and Max = 1,100. For comparison, a 9mm Auto Pistol has 1/2D = 150 and Max = 1,867.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening (PDT) TJP,
Thank-you for the information from GT1e. However, right or wrong, GT2e changed them from standard firearms to short range rocket launchers used in boarding actions on starships. GT2e describes them as Zero-G weapons, a conventional firearm's recoil is going to have an impact on the weapon's user, low power or not. Being retired Navy, I can't picture a ship's passageway/corridor being 3,300 feet long, nor can I recall any Traveller starships this long. From a damage control aspect a passageway 3,300 feet long would cause the loss of a lot of air if breached, not to mention collateral damage from stuff being ripped from their mountings. A 3,300 foot passageway broken up with many air tight hatches makes me feel better . Of course these are my views, which are based on my understanding of GT2e, and the other earlier versions of Traveller. Again thanks for the information, which I have added to my file of useful Traveller data.
Thank-you for the information from GT1e. However, right or wrong, GT2e changed them from standard firearms to short range rocket launchers used in boarding actions on starships. GT2e describes them as Zero-G weapons, a conventional firearm's recoil is going to have an impact on the weapon's user, low power or not. Being retired Navy, I can't picture a ship's passageway/corridor being 3,300 feet long, nor can I recall any Traveller starships this long. From a damage control aspect a passageway 3,300 feet long would cause the loss of a lot of air if breached, not to mention collateral damage from stuff being ripped from their mountings. A 3,300 foot passageway broken up with many air tight hatches makes me feel better
. Of course these are my views, which are based on my understanding of GT2e, and the other earlier versions of Traveller. Again thanks for the information, which I have added to my file of useful Traveller data.
